Preview Changes vs Tigers (Round 4)

[ScragCity]

What role does Hannan play? He took 2 uncontested marks and only had 4 touches. Scott was clean and composed and had almost 3 times as much of the pill.

I'm not defending Hannan but you really shouldn't use possession numbers as any sort of metric to determine a player's influence on a game, especially when they are playing completely different roles/positions.

 

[Foxman98]

I'm not defending Hannan but you really shouldn't use possession numbers as any sort of metric to determine a player's influence on a game, especially when they are playing completely different roles/positions.

0 tackles 0 contested marks 4 touches total terrible HTB against. His role is Faux ruckman and KPF he is not remotely contributing to either and is just as useless as a small. Cody plays the medium role far better then he does hence you either bring in a small or a tall for him as he is in no mans land

 

[Mofra]

Given Richmond have stopped dead at 3/4 time in two of their three matches this year we really should be considering 'who is the best runner' when we're looking at the changes to the team.
I'd happily concede a contest or two in the first half (due height) if it means we absolutely run all over them in the last.

 

[Foxman98]

Given Richmond have stopped dead at 3/4 time in two of their three matches this year we really should be considering 'who is the best runner' when we're looking at the changes to the team.
I'd happily concede a contest or two in the first half (due height) if it means we absolutely run all over them in the last.

McNeil West and Garcia all fit the bill

 

[banzai]

Given Richmond have stopped dead at 3/4 time in two of their three matches this year we really should be considering 'who is the best runner' when we're looking at the changes to the team.
I'd happily concede a contest or two in the first half (due height) if it means we absolutely run all over them in the last.

I don't think its the runners more the lack of midfield rotations that kill us. Prestia back in will help heaps, but you would be stiff if he gets through 4 quarters without breaking down against you. We've actually played quite well up until the point where we suddenly cark it and don't touch the ball for the rest of the match, we played 4 quarters against GWS but they're not really a football club so cant take much from it. You copt one of our two 4 quarter games for the season last year so it probably wont happen again.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Just realised this is our 2nd and final MCG game for the H&A season. Thanks AFL.

 

[Sentinel]

Just realised this is our 2nd and final MCG game for the H&A season. Thanks AFL.

At least until our next "home" final there.

 

[gordo2016]

I don't think its the runners more the lack of midfield rotations that kill us. Prestia back in will help heaps, but you would be stiff if he gets through 4 quarters without breaking down against you. We've actually played quite well up until the point where we suddenly cark it and don't touch the ball for the rest of the match, we played 4 quarters against GWS but they're not really a football club so cant take much from it. You copt one of our two 4 quarter games for the season last year so it probably wont happen again.

Very good player Prestia and Richmond need him out there. But with his history, only 2 weeks off for a hammy seems like a bit of a risk. I suppose they know what they are doing though.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Spoke with Bruce at a game recently, he still reckons he'll be back playing again around the bye.

 

[dogwatch]

On the topic of Josh Bruce

17

Josh Bruce

Age

32

Ht

198cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

90.4

1star

D

8.9

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

5.4

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

90.4

2star

D

11.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

I've had a few warm fuzzy feelings from reports of the work he's been doing with young listed players and with the AFLW side while he's been sidelined.

Solid citizen. Committed to the club.
My nominee for clubman of the year.

Looking forward to his return.

 

[ScottyDogg]

I'm not defending Hannan but you really shouldn't use possession numbers as any sort of metric to determine a player's influence on a game, especially when they are playing completely different roles/positions.

Apart from key position players, who might kick a couple goals or do important negating from 5-6 touches, what kind of modern AFL footballer can be accepted as playing an important role if they are not touching the pill more than 5-6 times a game?

Any other fast, medium sized player, whether playing a defensive or offensive role between the arcs would be expected to touch the pill more than a handful times, especially if they are an experienced Senior player.

If he was contributing in some other important way, tackles inside 50, clearances, smothers, metres gained, marks, metres covered etc. then I’d say yep there is some clear role being played. What I think most of us are now saying is that it’s totally unclear what he is adding anywhere on the ground.

I watch every game and all in Melbourne from level 3 and he is invisible. I think I, like many others, can’t keep buying this argument that he is playing this very special role that doesn’t show up anywhere on the stat sheet.

Happy for someone to find a parallel player in the league who is respected as an important contributor that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet somewhere.

I think the other part of the discussion is what favors are we doing him by not dropping him to the VFL to find form. Undermines selection integrity and isn’t making him a better the player. His trajectory has been totally stagnant.

 

[gordo2016]

Apart from key position players, who might kick a couple goals or do important negating from 5-6 touches, what kind of modern AFL footballer can be accepted as playing an important role if they are not touching the pill more than 5-6 times a game?

Any other fast, medium sized player, whether playing a defensive or offensive role between the arcs would be expected to touch the pill more than a handful times, especially if they are an experienced Senior player.

If he was contributing in some other important way, tackles inside 50, clearances, smothers, metres gained, marks, metres covered etc. then I’d say yep there is some clear role being played. What I think most of us are now saying is that it’s totally unclear what he is adding anywhere on the ground.

I watch every game and all in Melbourne from level 3 and he is invisible. I think I, like many others, can’t keep buying this argument that he is playing this very special role that doesn’t show up anywhere on the stat sheet.

Happy for someone to find a parallel player in the league who is respected as an important contributor that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet somewhere.

I think the other part of the discussion is what favors are we doing him by not dropping him to the VFL to find form. Undermines selection integrity and isn’t making him a better the player. His trajectory has been totally stagnant.

It is a good question really. The type of question that could be answered at a presser if someone asked. But no one will because they ask the same questions every week without any thought behind them. Here's a thought: Ask a decent question so we can learn something we don't already know.

 

[ScragCity]

Apart from key position players, who might kick a couple goals or do important negating from 5-6 touches, what kind of modern AFL footballer can be accepted as playing an important role if they are not touching the pill more than 5-6 times a game?

Any other fast, medium sized player, whether playing a defensive or offensive role between the arcs would be expected to touch the pill more than a handful times, especially if they are an experienced Senior player.

If he was contributing in some other important way, tackles inside 50, clearances, smothers, metres gained, marks, metres covered etc. then I’d say yep there is some clear role being played. What I think most of us are now saying is that it’s totally unclear what he is adding anywhere on the ground.

I watch every game and all in Melbourne from level 3 and he is invisible. I think I, like many others, can’t keep buying this argument that he is playing this very special role that doesn’t show up anywhere on the stat sheet.

Happy for someone to find a parallel player in the league who is respected as an important contributor that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet somewhere.

I think the other part of the discussion is what favors are we doing him by not dropping him to the VFL to find form. Undermines selection integrity and isn’t making him a better the player. His trajectory has been totally stagnant.

What part of "I'm not defending Hannan" did you not understand? I don't rate Hannan at all. I was making a general comment about what metrics are and aren't useful when determining a player's influence.

 

[ScottyDogg]

What part of "I'm not defending Hannan" did you not understand? I don't rate Hannan at all. I was making a general comment about what metrics are and aren't useful when determining a player's influence.

Sorry ScragCity the point of my post wasn’t to suggest that you are defending him, I was responding specifically to your comment about “what metrics are and aren’t useful in determining a player’s influence”

A number of posters have been defending him by stating that we can’t judge him based on stats.

My point is that I generally agree but….. I can’t think of any other player in the league that is supposedly “influential” that doesn’t show up somewhere on the stats sheet.

 

[Some Idiot]

I don't think anyone is arguing about Hannan playing poorly on the weekend. He had a good finals series so he has some credits in the bank, but they might have run out.

I do think he is struggling in part because he has been given a strange role by the coaches.

 

[ScottyDogg]

I don't think anyone is arguing about Hannan playing poorly on the weekend. He had a good finals series so he has some credits in the bank, but they might have run out.

I do think he is struggling in part because he has been given a strange role by the coaches.

this is literally the same argument. People keep talking of this impossible, super important magic unicorn role.

Even if it does exist, it doesn’t excuse a player for being invisible.

He had 10 games last year before the finals that were exactly the same.

I was obsessed with Hannan when he was in our VFL side and was gutted when he got drafted before our pick in 2017. But has shown next to nothing.

Make him prove it in the VFL like everyone else.

 

[doggie dog]

On the topic of Josh Bruce I've had a few warm fuzzy feelings from reports of the work he's been doing with young listed players and with the AFLW side while he's been sidelined.

Solid citizen. Committed to the club.
My nominee for clubman of the year.

Looking forward to his return.

I wish he would teach a few of our players how to kick for goals.
The accuracy is as bad as I have ever seen it, I only have faith in Flea and Marra.

 

[doggie dog]

I don't think anyone is arguing about Hannan playing poorly on the weekend. He had a good finals series so he has some credits in the bank, but they might have run out.

I do think he is struggling in part because he has been given a strange role by the coaches.

A strange role is an understatement, Hannan has no right to be put into the Ruck.
How high was Bevo when he thought this up and where are the assistant coaches calling him out for being so stupid?
One of the key areas where the dogs got belted in the GF was the rucking taps to advantage. I don't think this is an area we have fully addressed.
Throwing Hannan into that role is just insulting.

 

[Libbaaaa]

View attachment 1365041

Listed as 4-5 months away which is a little conservative I would think. As long as he comes back in the same shape he was in last year he'll be able to have an immediate impact.

 

[Foxman98]

What part of "I'm not defending Hannan" did you not understand? I don't rate Hannan at all. I was making a general comment about what metrics are and aren't useful when determining a player's influence.

When you aren't useful in a single metric they are though. I agree rating games on pure statistics doesn't always work but in this case he had no impact as a tall medium or a small and was poor in the role he was required to play. His best stat was pressure acts where he was just below average for the team.

 

[Foxman98]

I don't think anyone is arguing about Hannan playing poorly on the weekend. He had a good finals series so he has some credits in the bank, but they might have run out.

I do think he is struggling in part because he has been given a strange role by the coaches.

He had a fantastic Prelim did his usual disappearing act in the GF was fairly poor in the SF and decent in the EF wouldn't say that banks many points especially with his current output.

 

[stefoid]

Is 'stay as far away from the ball as possible' a role?

And if so, is Hannan the only one capable of doing it?

 

[Outback Footy]

View attachment 1365041

Does he shave his upper arms and legs? His forearms are shaggy as

 

[doggie dog]

Lachie McNeil is a must to come in 5.1 goals in the VFL.
Damn, we were horrible in front of goals, 26 shots and we barely won by 11 points.

 

[Some Idiot]

this is literally the same argument. People keep talking of this impossible, super important magic unicorn role.

Even if it does exist, it doesn’t excuse a player for being invisible.

He had 10 games last year before the finals that were exactly the same.

I was obsessed with Hannan when he was in our VFL side and was gutted when he got drafted before our pick in 2017. But has shown next to nothing.

Make him prove it in the VFL like everyone else.

I don't care because I don't rate him anyway - but Bevo has stated that his role is to compete in the air against taller opponents, while also being a pressure forward at ground level and now part time ruckman has also been added to the mix. It's a thankless role - imo he is underperforming in the role - for example not enough spoils, pressure acts or marks, but it's not a role where the number of disposals are relevant.