List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022

[Ned Ryerson]

Are your McLeans showing?

On an 80s ad binge on YouTube?

 

[TylerDurden]

McLean signing with the Dogs again apparently.

 

[The Chad and I]

With McKenzie's stellar record of picking talent late into the second round, i'd be happy with an aggressive cull of the list or trades, even if some likeable prospects are shown the door.

 

[Bremner20]

This is the 2013 Grand Final side. Who on our list today could replace one of those picked.

The easy one: Sicily for Simpkin.
I don't think there is anybody else.

Hawthorn

B:	24 Ben Stratton	17 Brian Lake	14 Grant Birchall
HB:	9 Shaun Burgoyne	6 Josh Gibson	10 Bradley Hill
C:	16 Isaac Smith	5 Sam Mitchell	3 Jordan Lewis
HF:	22 Luke Breust	23 Lance Franklin	33 Cyril Rioli
F:	28 Paul Puopolo	2 Jarryd Roughead	19 Jack Gunston
Foll:	39 Max Bailey	12 Brad Sewell	15 Luke Hodge (c)
Int:	26 Liam Shiels	18 Brent Guerra	20 David Hale
	32 Jonathan Simpkin (sub)
Coach:	Alastair Clarkson

You could almost put Newcombe in for Shiels .

 

[Topiary]

u can message me in private then, guarantee it won't be discussed publicly

you are commenting on a public forum btw ...u said we are close to signing second free agent and have left everyone wild guessing

I am not commenting because it may not happen, but I am assured it is close. That said, THINGS CHANGE !!
Constantly.

We are seeing what Tyler is saying about McLean as an example. We have been trying to get him for some time.

 

[Steven Tyler]

McLean signing with the Dogs again apparently.

 

[HairyO]

I am not commenting because it may not happen, but I am assured it is close. That said, THINGS CHANGE !!
Constantly.

We are seeing what Tyler is saying about McLean as an example. We have been trying to get him for some time.

Clearly not someone from GWS or no way it could be deacribed as "close" given our track record there.

Looking at the list of free agents I cant see too many who would be worth chasing, with most in their 30s.

 

[KermitJagger]

You do know that is one of the oldest most battle hardened teams of the last 20 years.

Alot of 27,28,29 and 30+ year olds

We barely have any of that experience which is why the mantra needs to be - be patient. Day, Scrimshaw, CJ, Ward, Newcombe, Lewis, Denver, McDonald, Finn Moore, even guys like Morrison need time, development and games. Once that lot have 100-150 games then do the comparison so it's apples to apples not apples to seeds

Indeed, can't compare players with long and storied careers to players who have barely started. We may never have a side that quality again, but there are plenty on there that aren't unsurpassable. Stratts, Hill, Puopolo, Sewell and that bench are all at risk.

Even at this stage, the below would be upgrades on that side especially in a team that good:

Hardwick > Guerra
Sicily > Stratton
Newcombe > Shiels
Pretty much anyone > Simpkin
McEvoy > Bailey

You could make arguments for Mitchell or Jaeger ahead of Sewell also, would have Moore ending up a better player than Puopolo too if he keeps developing at this rate.

We need to understand how good that team was, and how good that team made players who would have otherwise been average at most clubs.

 

[streetspirit]

HAWTHORN​

Jaeger O’Meara MIDFIELD, $750,000-$850,000
Tom Mitchell MIDFIELD, $750,000-$850,000
Chad Wingard

20

Chad Wingard

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.2

3star

MIDFIELD/FORWARD, $700,000-$800,000
James Sicily

6

James Sicily

Age

30

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

365.0

5star

D

19.4

4star

K

14.3

5star

HB

5.1

3star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.0

2star

MG

437.4

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

173.8

3star

DEFENCE, $700,000-$800,000
Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

FORWARD, $600,000-$700,000
Luke Breust

22

Luke Breust

Age

34

Ht

182cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

4.8

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

1.8

5star

FORWARD, $575,000-$675,000
The next 12 months loom as a transition period for Hawthorn. There are some big pay packets on the books at Waverley Park, which is partly why the Hawks were open to moving on experienced players in last year’s trade period. Midfielders Jaeger O’Meara and Tom Mitchell, both lured from rival clubs, have top billing for now but are out of contract at the end of next season. Ex-Power star Chad Wingard

20

Chad Wingard

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.2

3star

’s lucrative five-year deal also expires in 2023. All three will likely need to take pay cuts to stick around. Defender James Sicily

6

James Sicily

Age

30

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

365.0

5star

D

19.4

4star

K

14.3

5star

HB

5.1

3star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.0

2star

MG

437.4

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

173.8

3star

was paid handsomely on his two-year contract that finishes at season’s end but his five-year extension signed in May takes him into a new stratosphere. Looking ahead, key forward Mitch Lewis and 2019 Peter Crimmins medallist James Worpel

5

James Worpel

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.2

5star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.8

4star

are set to break into this territory next year. The likes of Will Day

12

Will Day

Age

23

Ht

191cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

2star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

D

17.5

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.5

3star

, Jarman Impey, Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

25

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

, Jai Newcombe, Ned Reeves, Lachie Bramble, Jacob Koschitzke and Worpel will all seek new deals within that period.

https://t.co/HftOJ9qwn6

 

[hardway]

Indeed, can't compare players with long and storied careers to players who have barely started. We may never have a side that quality again, but there are plenty on there that aren't unsurpassable. Stratts, Hill, Puopolo, Sewell and that bench are all at risk.

Even at this stage, the below would be upgrades on that side especially in a team that good:

Hardwick > Guerra
Sicily > Stratton
Newcombe > Shiels
Pretty much anyone > Simpkin
McEvoy > Bailey

You could make arguments for Mitchell or Jaeger ahead of Sewell also, would have Moore ending up a better player than Puopolo too if he keeps developing at this rate.

We need to understand how good that team was, and how good that team made players who would have otherwise been average at most clubs.

The Hardwick/Guerra call would be close. Guerra would push further up the ground and deliver inside 50. Hardwick can nullify small forwards a little more.

 

[KermitJagger]

The Hardwick/Guerra call would be close. Guerra would push further up the ground and deliver inside 50. Hardwick can nullify small forwards a little more.

We shouldn't get confused about what players can do, and what their role allows them to do. Hardwick is a phenomenal kick of the footy and we saw that ability with Morris in the team. Hardwick is also only 25.

 

[HairyO]

The Hardwick/Guerra call would be close. Guerra would push further up the ground and deliver inside 50. Hardwick can nullify small forwards a little more.

Hardwick closer to Stratton for me, but Stratton was excellent on tall, medium and small forwards. Hardwick only goes on small and medium.

 

[KermitJagger]

Hardwick closer to Stratton for me, but Stratton was excellent on tall, medium and small forwards. Hardwick only goes on small and medium.

... how is he closer to Stratton then?

 

[HairyO]

... how is he closer to Stratton then?

Because they are/were both lockdown defenders.

Guerra was nowhere near the same level of lockdown, and was used far more as a rebounder.

 

[Boot Studder]

... how is he closer to Stratton then?

As the other half of the Mullet Brothers?!

 

[KermitJagger]

Because they are/were both lockdown defenders.

Guerra was nowhere near the same level of lockdown, and was used far more as a rebounder.

Excluding 2020 because of the shortened season, Hardwicks disposal numbers stack up pretty closely to Guerra's and that's with him being required to play a more lockdown role.

 

[killerspud]

You could almost put Newcombe in for Shiels .

Nope. Newcombe is in his coaches spot in time

 

[burner1]

The Amon camp has been told we are close to have at least another FA coming.

Interesting / slightly surprising? Are we topping up? Or just offsetting expected loss of some senior players?

 

[KermitJagger]

Interesting / slightly surprising? Are we topping up? Or just offsetting expected loss of some senior players?

We have a pretty concerning gap of players in their mid 20s, would say we're just looking for coverage in that area. We'll have 3 players between 25 - 27 next year if Phillips and Howe move on as expected. Having a blend of different age profiles is best.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Interesting / slightly surprising? Are we topping up? Or just offsetting expected loss of some senior players?

We don't have the requisite ladder position to be seen as topping up.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Interesting / slightly surprising? Are we topping up? Or just offsetting expected loss of some senior players?

If we do lose some experienced heads like Tom and Jack, it’s best we replace them in some capacity.

Similar to why we’d look at Grundy when Big Boy has retired.

 

[Hawthorn2023]

If we do lose some experienced heads like Tom and Jack, it’s best we replace them in some capacity.

Similar to why we’d look at Grundy when Big Bot has retired.

I am fascinated with how the Tom situation pans out. Help him get a 3 year deal at another club OR shake hands and off he goes at the end of '23? If a future 2nd was offered, surely it is seriously considered.

Jack, I just don't see why he would leave for another club. Too much messing about for the latter stages of his career.

Grundy makes sense, at the right price. Gives me flashbacks of the Salmon trade.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

If we do lose some experienced heads like Tom and Jack, it’s best we replace them in some capacity.

Similar to why we’d look at Grundy when Big Bot has retired.

I don't mind getting experience in if we lose some - but the JJ talk isn't it for me. I just honestly can't see how JJ would even get a spot in our side unless we had an injury list similar to that of the last few rounds this season. 4-5 years ago if we were getting him for free it may have made some sense - but he's just not someone I can get excited about being in the discussion right now.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I don't mind getting experience in if we lose some - but the JJ talk isn't it for me. I just honestly can't see how JJ would even get a spot in our side unless we had an injury list similar to that of the last few rounds this season. 4-5 years ago if we were getting him for free it may have made some sense - but he's just not someone I can get excited about being in the discussion right now.

exactly, he'd likely be pretty handy depth and might be a good teacher for some of our young HBs like CJ, Brambs etc.

doubt we'd be picking him up with the intention of playing him 22 games

 

[burner1]

We have a pretty concerning gap of players in their mid 20s, would say we're just looking for coverage in that area. We'll have 3 players between 25 - 27 next year if Phillips and Howe move on as expected. Having a blend of different age profiles is best.

Most FAs are 27 years old or above. But the time we are contending they will be 30+ and on the decline.

The thinking is you want a core of elite 25-27 year olds when you are competing for a flag. Reckon it’s less relevant when rebuilding as it’s more getting that group of elite talent together to grow into their prime years.

Given we finished 13th in a supposed hard development year if anything suggests we have too many senior players rather than not enough. Now admittedly the influence of Gunston/Breust/Sicily is massive but getting a JJ type isn’t going to plug the gap if Gunston or Mitchell leaves (both on and off field). If was an inside bull maybe (given how we get smacked around the clearances), but we’re going okay for outside types and feels more likely to take a spot from a kid who needs game time.