Player Watch #30 Tom Brown

[RJK Tiger]

Post 2021 the Cats secured one of the best players in the competition in Jezza. Their full forward is playing as well as ever, ours is retired. Our other gun forward just missed a full season. They had SDK explode on the scene, our equivalent will miss 2-years of footy.

We drafted Gibcus at 9 then had 4 x picks from 17 to 30. Take me through all the guns we could’ve drafted from 17 to 30 that we bypassed who’d be helping us significantly on field now?

The draft picks we gave for TT and Hopper wouldn’t be helping us in 2024.

We can judge our list transition in 3-4 years, not 2024.


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Your basically saying the difference was they got Cameron and lost Jack.

You ignore that....

we could have gotten Hogan, the perfect Jack replacement to partner Lynch - or carry it on his own if need be

We could have gotten Wright

We could have gotten Casboult

We could have gotten Cerra over Hopper, a younger more suitable option that would have cost us likely the Gibcus pick


IF we had gotten Cerra & Hogan & the team was able to compete more immediately without putting a "Closing date" on our window, we could have then considered taking Grundy any of the 2 last times he has been given away for cap space. We also likely could have avoided Castagna retiring early which has hurt us even considering his form slump. He would walk in to this team based on effort alone


So if we play it that way.....


B: Broad Balta Young
HB: Short Vlaustin Baker
C: D.Rioli Taranto Pickett
HF: MRJ Dusty Ross
F: Hogan Lynch Castagna
Foll: Grundy Cerra Bolton

Bench: Nank Prestia Graham Cumberland

EMR: Campbell Grimes Casboult Clarke Brown Banks Sonsie

Would this side make the finals ? i would think so. Would they challenge for the flag? unlikely but if Dusty, Lynch & Hogan could click, you never know. The backline is still a bit suss & our wings are a still not elite.But mostly this is what it why it looked better

Baker -26
Balta -24
Young 25
Short - 27
Valustin - 30
Graham - 26
Grundy - 29
Rioli 27
Hogan 29
Cerra - 24
Castagna - 26
Ross -23
Taranto 26

The names I'd expect to still have 3-7 good years of footy in them & make up 13/18 of our starters.. We then would add vets like Dusty Lynch Prestia, Nank, Grimes, Pickett to fill holes and not play main roles.


We would then still have Dow, Cumberland, Sonsie, Clarke, Brown, Banks, Mansell, Campbell being the young guns chasing them out.

But what it would have meant as well is, once Dusty, Prestia Grimes, Pickett all move on at years end - we could have made a big offer to JUH & team him up with Hogan for a few years - but we would also likely have 1 maybe 2 whole years of Hogan, Lynch, JUH as our deep forwards - which might have been enough to convince Dusty to sign on etc. Then all of a sudden, we are just 1 or 2 pieces away from being a serious look. Maybe a guy like J.McGovern decides he wants a last crack and WC allow him to go etc

I think the above would have ensured we had first rounders every year except the Taranto year. , a better age balance moving forward etc. Also, im not even sure i've ever crapped on the draft picks specifically, just the approach of taking so many flanker types. I have never really said that 2021 draft was a disaster, except in context that if they do not improve beyond their current output, in which case it is truely a disaster. But even without taking different picks. their were better options and moves to guarantee our future. So many what if's in there its hard to take overly serious. But there are always options and alternative pathways. The idea that we can't "judge now" is crap. We'd have more picks too so more young talent to change our luck more.
You were saying the same thing a couple of years ago. Its always excuses or "Dont judge, wait & See" scenarios . There is no endeavour at all. no thought of how different decisions makes different paths. just accepting "This is the way" crap

 

[Noidnadroj]

Your basically saying the difference was they got Cameron and lost Jack.

You ignore that....

we could have gotten Hogan, the perfect Jack replacement to partner Lynch - or carry it on his own if need be

We could have gotten Wright

We could have gotten Casboult

We could have gotten Cerra over Hopper, a younger more suitable option that would have cost us likely the Gibcus pick


IF we had gotten Cerra & Hogan & the team was able to compete more immediately without putting a "Closing date" on our window, we could have then considered taking Grundy any of the 2 last times he has been given away for cap space. We also likely could have avoided Castagna retiring early which has hurt us even considering his form slump. He would walk in to this team based on effort alone


So if we play it that way.....


B: Broad Balta Young
HB: Short Vlaustin Baker
C: D.Rioli Taranto Pickett
HF: MRJ Dusty Ross
F: Hogan Lynch Castagna
Foll: Grundy Cerra Bolton

Bench: Nank Prestia Graham Cumberland

EMR: Campbell Grimes Casboult Clarke Brown Banks Sonsie

Would this side make the finals ? i would think so. Would they challenge for the flag? unlikely but if Dusty, Lynch & Hogan could click, you never know. The backline is still a bit suss & our wings are a still not elite.But mostly this is what it why it looked better

Baker -26
Balta -24
Young 25
Short - 27
Valustin - 30
Graham - 26
Grundy - 29
Rioli 27
Hogan 29
Cerra - 24
Castagna - 26
Ross -23
Taranto 26

The names I'd expect to still have 3-7 good years of footy in them & make up 13/18 of our starters.. We then would add vets like Dusty Lynch Prestia, Nank, Grimes, Pickett to fill holes and not play main roles.


We would then still have Dow, Cumberland, Sonsie, Clarke, Brown, Banks, Mansell, Campbell being the young guns chasing them out.

But what it would have meant as well is, once Dusty, Prestia Grimes, Pickett all move on at years end - we could have made a big offer to JUH & team him up with Hogan for a few years - but we would also likely have 1 maybe 2 whole years of Hogan, Lynch, JUH as our deep forwards - which might have been enough to convince Dusty to sign on etc. Then all of a sudden, we are just 1 or 2 pieces away from being a serious look. Maybe a guy like J.McGovern decides he wants a last crack and WC allow him to go etc

I think the above would have ensured we had first rounders every year except the Taranto year. , a better age balance moving forward etc. Also, im not even sure i've ever crapped on the draft picks specifically, just the approach of taking so many flanker types. I have never really said that 2021 draft was a disaster, except in context that if they do not improve beyond their current output, in which case it is truely a disaster. But even without taking different picks. their were better options and moves to guarantee our future. So many what if's in there its hard to take overly serious. But there are always options and alternative pathways. The idea that we can't "judge now" is crap. We'd have more picks too so more young talent to change our luck more.
You were saying the same thing a couple of years ago. Its always excuses or "Dont judge, wait & See" scenarios . There is no endeavour at all. no thought of how different decisions makes different paths. just accepting "This is the way" crap

Just because someone moves clubs it doesn’t mean we could have gotten them. Cerra chose to go to Carlton. Hogan chose to go to GWS. There are 17 x clubs these players can choose from … suggesting we could have gotten them just because we wanted them is not how things work.

And you’re suggesting we should’ve given up the Gibcus pick for Cerra. Obviously nobody would’ve predicted the Gibcus injuries … are you honestly saying it would’ve been better to have a very good midfielder who turns 25yo end of 2024 than a 21yo CHB for a decade? This is a classic case of being a hindsight hero. If Gibcus had 45 games under his belt for Freo and was dominating CHB (which he’d likely be doing without injuries), you’d be slamming the club for giving up Gibcus for a midfielder.

And then you’re talking about getting JUH just because we offer a big deal to him. He’d have huge deals tabled from most clubs and he’s about to re-sign with the Dogs. He’s not gettable.

And you’ve added Grundy in there .. WTF? We had Nank and Soldo … why would Grundy want to come to us? Why would we go after a ruckman on big coin when we had two quality rucks already?

Sorry, but you live in fantasy land thinking every available player could’ve been in Tiger colors if that’s what we wanted.

Lions fell off a cliff post dynasty. Hawks fell off a cliff post dynasty. Eagles fell off a cliff post flag. Saints fell off a cliff post 2009-2010. Dogs fell off a cliff post 2007-2010 era. Port fell off a cliff post 2004-2008.

About the only club that hasn’t fallen off a cliff to some extent post a very successful period is Geelong. But in 2015 they missed finals … in 2016 the best player in the competition walked in the door for unders as his family lived in Mogg’s creek. In 2020 they lost GF to us. In 2021 they had as good as the best player in the competition walk through the door as he liked fishing .

We’ve made many errors post dynasty, but keeping back Father Time when you don’t have access to the top-end of the draft for a decade is nigh on impossible (unless the likes of Danger and Jezza come knocking)…..

How’d we have gone in 2022 if Bont was playing for us? We finish top-4 and probably win the flag…. but he wasn’t.


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[Groupie_]

i will melt if they drop him this week

 

[Bojangles17]

The highest ranked wingers last year were Nick Martin and Mason Wood. After that you are looking at Josh Daicos, Karl Amon, and believe it or not, Jack Ross 5th.

Martin was the highest for score involvements with 5.4. Some of these guys play a bit differently, sometimes switching over with defensive forwards to slide deep to take marks near goals. So let's go with the AA winger, Nick Daicos, who was selected AA ahead of the other pair, and who plays the wing a lot more as a midfielder.

Daicos got 5.1 score involvements per game which is very high for a winger. Whitfield got 5.4 score involvements per game as a defender. Sinclair, Houston, Short, Vlastuin, Stewart, Young, Whitfield, Redman, Saad, were all running defenders with higher player ratings than Daicos. Daicos had 0.6 average goals per game and 0.3 average goal assists per game. Defenders like Sheezel, Dan Rioli and Houston, Hayden Young, Rivers and others had more goal assist than Josh Daicos playing on a wing in an AA season. Sheezel, Sinclair, Whitfield amongst others were medium defenders involved in a higher % of their team's scores than Josh Daicos.

A mountain of medium defenders had more score launches than Daicos. Really I think that will be more Brown's go, intercepting from a centre back position and setting up scoring opportunities from the back half. Most like Stewart, Vlastuin, Hayden Young of the defenders mentioned above.

Getting back to your post, if as you claim it is garbage that creative kicking is much more difficult from the wing then surely the leading winger would have more goal assists than the leading medium defenders, who play further from goal?

That doesn’t surprise me I says it once I’ll say it again Rossy has been way underrated around here and coaches fwiw, he rightfully should have been fuming being sub r1

 

[THE_GUN]

Just because someone moves clubs it doesn’t mean we could have gotten them. Cerra chose to go to Carlton. Hogan chose to go to GWS. There are 17 x clubs these players can choose from … suggesting we could have gotten them just because we wanted them is not how things work.

And you’re suggesting we should’ve given up the Gibcus pick for Cerra. Obviously nobody would’ve predicted the Gibcus injuries … are you honestly saying it would’ve been better to have a very good midfielder who turns 25yo end of 2024 than a 21yo CHB for a decade? This is a classic case of being a hindsight hero. If Gibcus had 45 games under his belt for Freo and was dominating CHB (which he’d likely be doing without injuries), you’d be slamming the club for giving up Gibcus for a midfielder.

And then you’re talking about getting JUH just because we offer a big deal to him. He’d have huge deals tabled from most clubs and he’s about to re-sign with the Dogs. He’s not gettable.

And you’ve added Grundy in there .. WTF? We had Nank and Soldo … why would Grundy want to come to us? Why would we go after a ruckman on big coin when we had two quality rucks already?

Sorry, but you live in fantasy land thinking every available player could’ve been in Tiger colors if that’s what we wanted.

Lions fell off a cliff post dynasty. Hawks fell off a cliff post dynasty. Eagles fell off a cliff post flag. Saints fell off a cliff post 2009-2010. Dogs fell off a cliff post 2007-2010 era. Port fell off a cliff post 2004-2008.

About the only club that hasn’t fallen off a cliff to some extent post a very successful period is Geelong. But in 2015 they missed finals … in 2016 the best player in the competition walked in the door for unders as his family lived in Mogg’s creek. In 2020 they lost GF to us. In 2021 they had as good as the best player in the competition walk through the door as he liked fishing .

We’ve made many errors post dynasty, but keeping back Father Time when you don’t have access to the top-end of the draft for a decade is nigh on impossible (unless the likes of Danger and Jezza come knocking)…..

How’d we have gone in 2022 if Bont was playing for us? We finish top-4 and probably win the flag…. but he wasn’t.


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Dont worry about him mate

 

[tigs2010]

All good, I thought you meant on the weekend.

How long since McIntosh and Pickett have played well on a wing?

 

[RJK Tiger]

Just because someone moves clubs it doesn’t mean we could have gotten them. Cerra chose to go to Carlton. Hogan chose to go to GWS. There are 17 x clubs these players can choose from … suggesting we could have gotten them just because we wanted them is not how things work.

And you’re suggesting we should’ve given up the Gibcus pick for Cerra. Obviously nobody would’ve predicted the Gibcus injuries … are you honestly saying it would’ve been better to have a very good midfielder who turns 25yo end of 2024 than a 21yo CHB for a decade? This is a classic case of being a hindsight hero. If Gibcus had 45 games under his belt for Freo and was dominating CHB (which he’d likely be doing without injuries), you’d be slamming the club for giving up Gibcus for a midfielder.

And then you’re talking about getting JUH just because we offer a big deal to him. He’d have huge deals tabled from most clubs and he’s about to re-sign with the Dogs. He’s not gettable.

And you’ve added Grundy in there .. WTF? We had Nank and Soldo … why would Grundy want to come to us? Why would we go after a ruckman on big coin when we had two quality rucks already?

Sorry, but you live in fantasy land thinking every available player could’ve been in Tiger colors if that’s what we wanted.

Lions fell off a cliff post dynasty. Hawks fell off a cliff post dynasty. Eagles fell off a cliff post flag. Saints fell off a cliff post 2009-2010. Dogs fell off a cliff post 2007-2010 era. Port fell off a cliff post 2004-2008.

About the only club that hasn’t fallen off a cliff to some extent post a very successful period is Geelong. But in 2015 they missed finals … in 2016 the best player in the competition walked in the door for unders as his family lived in Mogg’s creek. In 2020 they lost GF to us. In 2021 they had as good as the best player in the competition walk through the door as he liked fishing .

We’ve made many errors post dynasty, but keeping back Father Time when you don’t have access to the top-end of the draft for a decade is nigh on impossible (unless the likes of Danger and Jezza come knocking)…..

How’d we have gone in 2022 if Bont was playing for us? We finish top-4 and probably win the flag…. but he wasn’t.


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No, but they are quite clearly opportunities we could have taken better. We were linked with Hogan. And Cerra.

we won 3 flags in 4 years, the first being in 2017. Before we won flags, we complained that "all the best players are going to the top teams on lower money. Since then we have managed to use our power at the top to poach....

Tom Lynch
Maverick Weller
Robbie Tarrant (who was overpaid)
Jacob Hopper (who is overpaid)
Tim Taranto
Jacob Koschitzke

the lack of accountability you guys allow the club is laughable

 

[skinnyP]

No, but they are quite clearly opportunities we could have taken better. We were linked with Hogan. And Cerra.

we won 3 flags in 4 years, the first being in 2017. Before we won flags, we complained that "all the best players are going to the top teams on lower money. Since then we have managed to use our power at the top to poach....

Tom Lynch
Maverick Weller
Robbie Tarrant (who was overpaid)
Jacob Hopper (who is overpaid)
Tim Taranto
Jacob Koschitzke

the lack of accountability you guys allow the club is laughable

Yeah I remember when the saints were begging Mav Weller to stay.

 

[tiger_tough]

How good is his kicking? Needs to play the rest of the season, even if it means Grimes sits out

 

[Meteoric Rise]

How good is his kicking? Needs to play the rest of the season, even if it means Grimes sits out

Definitely got to get games into Brown. He looks really uncertain at times, and I think hasn't got a great tank. But when the play comes into his wheelhouse, he is the business.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

I think it was him who in the last few minutes in the last made a kick straight into the center that needed to be made.
It was elite kicking.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Best sign for me was a crucial late spoil near D50 that required him to risk injury to make it … there have been question marks on his hardness so amongst many other positives that stood out for me.

The other thing I love is JVR averaging 8.7 touches, 2.8 marks and 1.2 goals per game - all down on his debut season. I think JVR will be a player, but he’s nearly 21yo. 3-months older than Amiss who is averaging 8.7, 3.7 marks and 2.3 goals per game.

I’d still take JVR given our needs, but it may not be the disaster everyone panicked about.


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[tiger_tough]

Best sign for me was a crucial late spoil near D50 that required him to risk injury to make it … there have been question marks on his hardness so amongst many other positives that stood out for me.

The other thing I love is JVR averaging 8.7 touches, 2.8 marks and 1.2 goals per game - all down on his debut season. I think JVR will be a player, but he’s nearly 21yo. 3-months older than Amiss who is averaging 8.7, 3.7 marks and 2.3 goals per game.

I’d still take JVR given our needs, but it may not be the disaster everyone panicked about.


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JVR goes for the high flying pack mark way too often. Gets hands on a lot but they'd int stick. Needs to learn some restraint. Will still be a very good KPF for a long time IMO.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Get the ball into his hands as often as possible ! Including regular kick in duties.

 

[RobsJourney]

I think it was him who in the last few minutes in the last made a kick straight into the center that needed to be made.
It was elite kicking.

Yep, bullet pass.

 

[THE_GUN]

Get the ball into his hands as often as possible ! Including regular kick in duties.

YES !

 

[Willo_23]

Clearly a talent, need to get him to 50 games as quickly as possible!

 

[THE_GUN]

Vlastuin's game today was the template for Mr Tom Brown

 

[Tetley Tigers]

Elite kick / not a bad trait out of back half


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[prodigy]

Persist

As above.

 

[TigerImposter]

JVR goes for the high flying pack mark way too often. Gets hands on a lot but they'd int stick. Needs to learn some restraint. Will still be a very good KPF for a long time IMO.

i said this to my brother and bro reckons we were all saying this about Jack when he first started out. JVR is a massive talent and once he clicks he’s going to be a hell of a player.
Back on Thomas I still think he’s going to be an A grader as he’s a very mature young man with elite vision as well as a magnificent kick. He looks very laconic and lazy to some, but bc he’s a beautiful reader of the play he gets to contests easier than most. People are comparing him to Flossy , but I see him as a blend of Grimes and Flossy in him.

 

[tiger_tough]

i said this to my brother and bro reckons we were all saying this about Jack when he first started out. JVR is a massive talent and once he clicks he’s going to be a hell of a player.
Back on Thomas I still think he’s going to be an A grader as he’s a very mature young man with elite vision as well as a magnificent kick. He looks very laconic and lazy to some, but bc he’s a beautiful reader of the play he gets to contests easier than most. People are comparing him to Flossy , but I see him as a blend of Grimes and Flossy in him.

Joel Bowden vibes for me.

 

[Daka]

Far too good to be playing VFL he has good AFL traits like he's kicking which we need out of backline.

 

[tora tora tora]

Get the ball into his hands as often as possible ! Including regular kick in duties.

Miller kicks long too, hit up a a player coming out of defence that switched play. It felt like a game plan , that required skills. Shifted Sydney around a bit.

coupla options.

Short used to be amazing, feels like his long kicking isn't hitting targets like it used to...which is not completely on Short. Having his leg on the wing would be insane.

Mind you I'm not sacking any player yet.

 

[juss]

Wouldn't mind him on the wing if his running capacity was good enough