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You keep widening the scope. You said there were more Giants fans travelling from Wagga than Raiders fans. That's all I was correcting. You're arguing against yourself on the rest of it.

I was exclusively applying it Wagga/Riverina. I wasn't referencing anything else. You said: We have to assume that there's GWS fans in places like Wagga making the 3-hour drive to games, that make the ACT Government buying the games worthwhile. While I suppose if being far we have to compare...

I would've assumed more Raiders fans than Giants fans in Wagga/Riverina. The area is pretty well shared between the codes, but the Raiders have had a 30-year head start (and are based a lot closer). The Riverina has a lot of AFL fans, but three games a year, three hours away, isn't much...

I agree that they'll give Tassie longer to settle than the Suns, but I can't see it being more than a decade. In the past century, the VFL/AFL has only ever had five seasons with odd teams. I don't think more than a decade with odd teams is likely.

And I the reverse. Long-term, I think we both agree we want to see 11 Giants games in Sydney. I just want better for Canberra in the meantime. And you want what's best for Sydney. But while we're putting up the cash and the crowds, we're within our rights to expect better. All rhetoric and...

I agree that the AFL were never that keen on a Tasmanian team, but they contributed $10m each to the Suns' and Giants' stadiums. Pretty on par with the Hobart contribution.

I also mean this with no animosity, but perhaps you aren't the best placed to determine what's fair for Canberra. It's like a North fan telling Tasmanians to suck it up before they had a team announced. Look, I really, really, really want that to be true. And round 0 is pretty set. I get...

The majority of Canberran AFL fans would prefer their own team over a part-time interstate team. That doesn't mean our opinions about wanting a fair deal in the meantime aren't valid. What makes you doubt it? There aren't many secondary markets that get better crowds than its primary...

You've been in the other threads, right? Plenty of alternatives floating around for the Easter Show. If Canberra gets its own team, the Giants will have a plan b ready. So we're just a secondary market? But also, our crowds are so strong that we don't need the big teams? The difference is...

How does one game against the big four, but 20-plus games against four smaller teams not seem lopsided to you? I get it, it's about growing the brand in Sydney. Canberra is isn't a part of the long-term plan. But if we were, I'd be expecting better treatment.

They still drag down our crowds, too. Of those 15 games, there's been one sell out (when the Dogs were flying and the rivalry was hot). Every other game hasn't passed 10.1k. I get we're never going to get Collingwood. But it sucks for Pies fans. There are a load here. I know more Pies fans...

So your logic is that the NT is so used to unliveable weather conditions that we should base a team there full-time?

Australian Community Media isn't News Ltd.

Exactly. My preference is Tom Wills built to 10-12k capacity to handle a smaller opposition during the Easter break, but it's handy to have the SCG as an option when transitioning out of Canberra.

Showgrounds as an option only improves over time. The light rail and metro will make it much more accessible by the early 2030s. Olympic Park is even an option as a terminus for Sydney to Newcastle high speed rail (late 2030s). Increasing density in the precinct will add thousands of...

Exactly. The Giants have never played a regular season match here against Collingwood, Carlton or Essendon. But collectively they've hosted the Suns, Port and Bulldogs 15 times. As travelling fans is a big justifier for the money, we should at least be getting more value.

I really don't think the Canberra Times has influenced this narrative as much as you think. I'd say pro-Giants articles outweigh negative ones. But negative comments are much more frequent. They'll appear on every article where we've missed out on something (world cup games, A-League team...

AFL fans do travel more, but considering the Raiders play four times as many home games in Canberra, and Manuka disproportionately hosts smaller teams, I'm not sure the Giants would bring more travelling fans in an average year. But not the point. At least not my point. It's not about...

I wouldn't say so. I haven't read a hard copy in a while, but I'd say AFL gets a decent amount of coverage considering we don't have a team. They've had a few pro 20th team pieces in recent years. Funding an interstate team at the expense of Canberra teams isn't popular outside of AFL circles...

The Giants partnership has been copping strays in Canberra over missing out on Rugby World Cup games. Our local senator David Pocock said: "The ACT government seems very willing to put millions into a Sydney AFL team, but when it comes to teams that are here - like Brumbies, Raiders, Canberra...

WA getting the 20th AFL team. Because it would mean Canberra likely wouldn't have its own team until at least the second half of the century. I can't handle only three games a year for that long.

You're judging their success through a Melbourne lens. Not to make excuses, but Covid did disproportionately affect the Giants. They didn't have the rusted-on fanbase that the rest of the competition had. They dipped hard. They only averaged 6k in 2022. Their average double that in 2024. If...

But in terms of accessibility, would it still be easier to get to than BISP? And a better experience with food and drinks than BISP? May not attract many from Bankstown, but it might bring in more people in than BISP would. And optically, it looks better than the Giants playing at Henson Park...

Bankstown Oval actually gives me North Sydney vibes.

I don't know Sydney too well, but what about Bankstown Oval as a potential AFLW replacement for BISP/Henson? There's supposedly 5k capacity. Mostly on the hill, but that includes 1500 in a covered grandstand. It's 11km west of Henson Park, so much more in the actual west. It's hosted...

What's the number you'd be happy with? Because four of the Giants' eight H&A Engie games had record crowds against respective opponents in 2024. They're clearly trending in the direction.

The grandstand actually looks pretty similarly sized the Blacktown oval. Starts similarly near the arcs and looks like a similar number of rows. That's 1600 seats. A bit on the small side, but a good start!

Now that does look good! Have you seen any numbers regarding capacity?

Thanks for posting. A little disappointing in terms of spectator facilities. From what I can tell, they're just adding a bit of a hill in one corner. No seating. I would've liked to see them bring the capacity to 10k, with a provision to bring it to 12k. Then Tom Wills could become the...