Player Watch #16 Josh Smillie

[captain bloodsport]

I will say this.

For RFC to win a premiership with Richo he needed to play wing.

Meaning RFC needed others to help Richo kick goals to win premiership rather than Richo as a forward soley.

Ablett Snr was a better wingman or half forward. How many players kick 14 goals/ off a flank???

Buddy was a flanker. Was the Swans better the year before because Buddy retired?

Carey was more important because he won games as a CHF/FF hybrid. That does not mean Carey was better than Lockett but he could hold his own in the important position of CHF

Lockett was best in his youth when he could jump and get closer to CHF, Mathews played midfield and forward.


Did Ablett Snr not win a premiership because in the GF he played forward despite kicking 9 goals and winning a Norm Smith?? The point being if Ablett Snr kicked 9 goals from a half forward flank in the GF would Geelong have won the game??

The point is the team wins premierships and you try and maximise individual efforts as part of the overall team effort.

If Richo adds more to the team playing on the wing and get others to kick more goals that is what you do.

Likewise if Smillie adds more at times from the backline apart from the midfield and helps our forwards get better looks for us to stop more goals and kick more goals that is what we do if we get better mids rather than relying on a weaker backline setup to make the overall team better which is what counts winning premierships.

Richo kicked a lot of points. Goal accuracy was important. If Richo was winning more up the ground and others where kicking more more accurately it would have been a better setup and the team would have been in more sync, more confident, more belief, more robust. Like missing free throws in basketball, missing goals hurts unlike having someone like Tony Hall helping Hawks win premierships kicking goals in a team setup

When I look back on it, Richo running like a gazelle is more indicative to me of his strength than him kicking goals including those where he was running out the back. He could run, leap and take a great mark, but forwards is about kicking goals and putting the score on the board with scoreboard pressure finishing off team efforts. The obsession of Richo being a forward probably inhibited us most winning a premiership with him because we needed a better team setup.

It is interesting you talk about Hart, Greig because that was an earlier era and the game has moved on since then but back then isolated football was more key arguably back then rather than team combinations as their was less run and cover in the game while Barlett could play a few different roles, midfield, forward at least. look at a player like Dunstall, if he was not a accurate kick for goal he probably would not have made it, let alone be a great

He played on the wing and we didn't even make the finals

 

[Grrr]

I will say this.

For RFC to win a premiership with Richo he needed to play wing.

Meaning RFC needed others to help Richo kick goals to win premiership rather than Richo as a forward soley.

Ablett Snr was a better wingman or half forward. How many players kick 14 goals/ off a flank???

Buddy was a flanker. Was the Swans better the year before because Buddy retired?

Carey was more important because he won games as a CHF/FF hybrid. That does not mean Carey was better than Lockett but he could hold his own in the important position of CHF

Lockett was best in his youth when he could jump and get closer to CHF, Mathews played midfield and forward.


Did Ablett Snr not win a premiership because in the GF he played forward despite kicking 9 goals and winning a Norm Smith?? The point being if Ablett Snr kicked 9 goals from a half forward flank in the GF would Geelong have won the game??

The point is the team wins premierships and you try and maximise individual efforts as part of the overall team effort.

If Richo adds more to the team playing on the wing and get others to kick more goals that is what you do.

Likewise if Smillie adds more at times from the backline apart from the midfield and helps our forwards get better looks for us to stop more goals and kick more goals that is what we do if we get better mids rather than relying on a weaker backline setup to make the overall team better which is what counts winning premierships.

Richo kicked a lot of points. Goal accuracy was important. If Richo was winning more up the ground and others where kicking more more accurately it would have been a better setup and the team would have been in more sync, more confident, more belief, more robust. Like missing free throws in basketball, missing goals hurts unlike having someone like Tony Hall helping Hawks win premierships kicking goals in a team setup

When I look back on it, Richo running like a gazelle is more indicative to me of his strength than him kicking goals including those where he was running out the back. He could run, leap and take a great mark, but forwards is about kicking goals and putting the score on the board with scoreboard pressure finishing off team efforts. The obsession of Richo being a forward probably inhibited us most winning a premiership with him because we needed a better team setup.

It is interesting you talk about Hart, Greig because that was an earlier era and the game has moved on since then but back then isolated football was more key arguably back then rather than team combinations as their was less run and cover in the game while Barlett could play a few different roles, midfield, forward at least. look at a player like Dunstall, if he was not a accurate kick for goal he probably would not have made it, let alone be a great

Might agree to disagree but Richo did play CHF for much of the time so he did bring others into the game.

Dunstall would have been great in any era, but yes the game suited the lead up forward more back then. Hands like a vice.

Sort of hypothetical argument anyway, one season as a winger is not enough to base an argument on, vs 15 as a forward. So he could have been a better wingman, maybe.

 

[Mr Magic]

Might agree to disagree but Richo did play CHF for much of the time so he did bring others into the game.

Dunstall would have been great in any era, but yes the game suited the lead up forward more back then. Hands like a vice.

Sort of hypothetic argument anyway, one season as a winger is not enough to base an argument on, vs 15 as a forward. So he could have been a better wingman, maybe.

Richo was built to run and take great marks, the same explosive attributes that made it hard for him to kick stable goals.

have to work with what you got to make the team combination better because no player can do it all to win premierships

 

[captain bloodsport]

Richo was built to run and take great marks, the same explosive attributes that made it hard for him to kick stable goals.

have to work with what you got to make the team combination better because no player can do it all to win premierships

He kicked 800 goals. I agree he was great on the wing but, In the all the teams richo played in he was still the best forward by a mile

 

[THE_GUN]

There is no argument, Richo was a better wingman.

he nearly won a unexpected( ie without the media etc.. hype pumping up expectations prior to the vote) brownlow as a wingman

nevertheless at those times we did not have many who could kick goals for us and Richo was a great mark, so Richo was always useful and entertaining

Bulltish no argument

The man has kicked 800 goals at over 3 per game
and you telling us there is no argument he was better as a wingman

FMD

 

[Mr Magic]

He kicked 800 goals. I agree he was great on the wing but, In the all the teams richo played in he was still the best forward by a mile

the team would have been better if he kicked 400 goals or whatever, playing on the wing.

we are here to win premierships, not individual stats

 

[THE_GUN]

the team would have been better if he kicked 400 goals or whatever, playing on the wing.

we are here to win premierships, not individual stats

He would have been even better if he kicked 600 goals a game from the wing

do you have any room for negotiation

 

[Mr Magic]

Might agree to disagree but Richo did play CHF for much of the time so he did bring others into the game.

Dunstall would have been great in any era, but yes the game suited the lead up forward more back then. Hands like a vice.

Sort of hypothetic argument anyway, one season as a winger is not enough to base an argument on, vs 15 as a forward. So he could have been a better wingman, maybe.

so are you suggesting forwards need to bring other forwards into the game?

Some would say the other forwards are not good enough.

the primary role of fowards is scoreboard pressure, not carrying other players

 

[THE_GUN]

Has there ever been a Wingman thats kicked 400 goals

 

[Muddiemoose]

the team would have been better if he kicked 400 goals or whatever, playing on the wing.

we are here to win premierships, not individual stats

I kind of feel like you are contradicting yourself

You are saying it shouldn’t be about individual stats but you are basing Richo should of been played on the wing due to his individual stats that season and the fact he polled well in the Brownlow when as a team his presence on the wing amounted to nothing

We didn’t even play finals as others have mentioned

It’s like you are so blinded to your proposition that you are using an example that doesn’t make any sense

 

[Muddiemoose]

But as an aside let’s wind down the Richo wing discussion

This is the Josh Smillie thread so let’s stop going around in circles on a different subject

 

[Mr Magic]

I kind of feel like you are contradicting yourself

You are saying it shouldn’t be about individual stats but you are basing Richo should of been played on the wing due to his individual stats that season and the fact he polled well in the Brownlow when as a team his presence on the wing amounted to nothing

We didn’t even play finals as others have mentioned

It’s like you are so blinded to your proposition that you are using an example that doesn’t make any sense

when did I say Richo should have played on the wing because of individual stats??

His presence on the wing was far more than any presence he had up forward.

you think kicking goals from the ball going over the back and he running on to it mean't a great deal??

He was more effective on the wing, RFC was stronger in the contest when Richo was on the wing, the team felt stronger as a team with Richo on the wing albeit JR would have just started


some seem obsessed by the number of goals.

Not talking about Richo necessarily but some guys kick a lot of goals because they spent a lot of time near the goals, it is called proximity to goal, does not mean they are great necessarily rather it is more about there role.

If you are not a bowler you cannot bowl someone out.

 

[Muddiemoose]

when did I say Richo should have played on the wing because of individual stats??

There is no argument, Richo was a better wingman.

he nearly won a unexpected( ie without the media etc.. hype pumping up expectations prior to the vote) brownlow as a wingman

nevertheless at those times we did not have many who could kick goals for us and Richo was a great mark, so Richo was always useful and entertaining

But as I stated before the thread is now detailed with the Richo discussion
Any further discussion will simply be deleted and if this is still ignored thread bans are on the table

 

[THE_GUN]

But as an aside let’s wind down the Richo wing discussion

This is the Josh Smillie thread so let’s stop going around in circles on a different subject

Josh Smillie the mid or Josh Smillie the HBF

 

[Phar Ace]

Richo was built to run and take great marks, the same explosive attributes that made it hard for him to kick stable goals.

have to work with what you got to make the team combination better because no player can do it all to win premierships

Quoting Tommy Hafey's players address - "just kick it to Royce". Looking forward to Yze saying "just kick it to Josh"

 

[Grrr]

so are you suggesting forwards need to bring other forwards into the game?

Some would say the other forwards are not good enough.

the primary role of fowards is scoreboard pressure, not carrying other players

When you play CHF as Richo often did, you bring others into the game because you often get the ball up to the wings. Hard to score when you are 90m out.

Not only was Richo one of the greatest contested marks the game has seen, but he also kicked 800 goals and won Richmond goalscoring 13 times, before he went to the wings out of boredom, so it's hard to make a case for him not giving scoreboard pressure. If Richo was a bit more accurate he would be remembered as one of the leagues greatest, not just Richmonds.

 

[Boxo004]

We’ve been crying out for an oversized bull of a mid. We get shredded by those bigger bodies Cripps Bont in particular always have day outs against us. This guy fits that bill. He’ll win inside but has outside class as well. HBF talk is silly. Get him in there cutting his teeth.

 

[Nostradumbass]

The new face of the club

 

[Vassp]

When you play CHF as Richo often did, you bring others into the game because you often get the ball up to the wings. Hard to score when you are 90m out.

Not only was Richo one of the greatest contested marks the game has seen, but he also kicked 800 goals and won Richmond goalscoring 13 times, before he went to the wings out of boredom, so it's hard to make a case for him not giving scoreboard pressure. If Richo was a bit more accurate he would be remembered as one of the leagues greatest, not just Richmonds.

not only that, but had he played in a more functional team he wouldve been right up there, he carried the weight of richmonds lows on his shoulders and really played with more pressure than he shouldve.

 

[THE_GUN]

Smillie , Lalor , Sharp , Rodriguez , Hotton , Taranto , Hopper , McAuliffe

There is a fair bit of speed and brutality in the above mix

 

[Mr Magic]

When you play CHF as Richo often did, you bring others into the game because you often get the ball up to the wings. Hard to score when you are 90m out.

Not only was Richo one of the greatest contested marks the game has seen, but he also kicked 800 goals and won Richmond goalscoring 13 times, before he went to the wings out of boredom, so it's hard to make a case for him not giving scoreboard pressure. If Richo was a bit more accurate he would be remembered as one of the leagues greatest, not just Richmonds.

i can't reply due to the moderator. I assume your post will be deleted but I will not request it

 

[Mr Magic]

The new face of the club

what is wrong with having new faces???

The worship phenomenon is interesting. Did our premiership teams win in recent years because Dusty was mainly silent and not one for the BS?

 

[Mr Magic]

not only that, but had he played in a more functional team he wouldve been right up there, he carried the weight of richmonds lows on his shoulders and really played with more pressure than he shouldve.

I assume this post will be deleted per the moderator, but again, I will not request it, just an observation about accountability and integrity

 

[RJK Tiger]

Smillie , Lalor , Sharp , Rodriguez , Hotton , Taranto , Hopper , McAuliffe

There is a fair bit of speed and brutality in the above mix

Maybe.

All i see is lots of "maybe's" in that list.

The kids maybe reach their projected potential.

Hopper maybe stays fit

Taranto & Hopper maybe show they can not only win the ball, but actually dispose of it half decently.

I honestly don't look at any of those blokes atm and think "would hate to be matching up against that lot!". Hopper is kinda tough, but tends to get hurt more than hurting others. Taranto is just average in that regard. Rest have to grow up before we start calling them brutal.

Good to see Smillie getting some early love - but this group is about as rough around the edges as you can get. 6 blokes completely unproven at AFL level & 2 guys that have huge question marks around getting on the field and being effective.

By the time Smillie and co are 23 - Hopper & Taranto will be into their 30's. I'm not sure i ever see a time when that group is able to really play top level together - I think the timings will likely not meet,. the next meaningful midfield group we have will be the younger guys in that list with guys even younger IMO

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Maybe.

All i see is lots of "maybe's" in that list.

The kids maybe reach their projected potential.

Hopper maybe stays fit

Taranto & Hopper maybe show they can not only win the ball, but actually dispose of it half decently.

I honestly don't look at any of those blokes atm and think "would hate to be matching up against that lot!". Hopper is kinda tough, but tends to get hurt more than hurting others. Taranto is just average in that regard. Rest have to grow up before we start calling them brutal.

Good to see Smillie getting some early love - but this group is about as rough around the edges as you can get. 6 blokes completely unproven at AFL level & 2 guys that have huge question marks around getting on the field and being effective.

By the time Smillie and co are 23 - Hopper & Taranto will be into their 30's. I'm not sure i ever see a time when that group is able to really play top level together - I think the timings will likely not meet,. the next meaningful midfield group we have will be the younger guys in that list with guys even younger IMO

sharp is a goddamn maniac at 17, once hes hit 90kg he will terrify oppos, just goes straight through packs.