Player Watch #16 Josh Smillie

Did We Get The Pick Right?

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    117
  • Poll closed .

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Grrr said:
We have half a dozen who can play CHB and have dominated that position as juniors, why would you want to play him there. Gibcus, Trainor, Miller, Blight, Kosi, Young. I'm all for trying players in different positions, but not until you are given a good go in the position you are drafted or best suited in.

If he struggles as a mid after a few years, by all means try him back, but until then CHB is the least of our worries, much less an experimental one.
Click to expand...


this is a false logic.

You think we are playing checkers when we are playing chess.

It is like you bring batman and robin to a fight and I raise you with a Superman with no kryptonite weaknesses

First of all if Smillie plays CHB, why would he just play CHB and why would he play a conventional CHB??

If anything you raise a alternative situation, it is not like AFL plays with the segregation of Gridiron. The only restriction is the 6 6 6 at the bounce meaning Smillie could start in the guts or just out of the square at the bounce depending on what you are trying to do as a team

If Smillie is near CHB it is likely he would not stick to CHB all the time or for long periods meaning anyone of Gibcus, Trainor, Miller, Blight, Kosi, Young and others can support including others for the combined team role. The other possibility is Smillie plays his own hybrid position for him given he is such a unicorn where he plays mostly between half back and midfield with other support around him and he drifts forward or back depending on footy scenarios where we have other players that compliment such a setup, so Smillie becomes both a half back and a midfielder at the same time depending how the ball is coming in through transition, contest, in the air etc,,,

Even now AFL is largely positionless football. Smillie is a bit of a unicorn, so his type simply allows teams to take this concept to another level in combination with other team dynamics.

It is interesting some of points brought up by other posters. At least one question's Smillies competiveness in contest whicb may or may not be fair. What is fair is Smillie seems very mobile for a player of his size and skill. So a hybrid role that could interchange is more possible with Smillie with a higher IQ allowing other players to play different versatile roles in and around him resulting in different team formations throwing off opposition team defences.

If Smillie is so mobile and agile given his height and skill, and if their may be a slight question on competiveness in certain midfield scenarios, would it not make more sense playing Smillie and our teammates in scenarios that avoid these deficiences and maximise his strengths in other scenarios where he might be near big opponents and he can simply out manovourve with his agility and skill with our other teammates to create match up problems against opposition setups to give us advantages more consistently that help us win games where Smillies versatility is exploited and we are more successful as a result in combination with other players we have doing their thing in such away our opposition finds it difficult to stop.

The point is given Smillie's attributes is Smillie more effective if not played just as a midfielder all the time even though he can go in there? At this stage, even though some question Smillies contest work he could be more inside than Bont but maybe not Cripps but who knows. Either way, Smillie might be more of a menace against opposition key position setups because he is bigger and stronger than Bont and a better kick with more balance as a distributor than Cripps let alone Fyfe. So what do you do?? Well it is a good problem to have and we have time on our side and Smillie has time to develop along with our other players in and around him to so we can be as effective as possible in methods of play in certain scenarios which obviously will not be set in stone straight away and evolve as well over time with new innovations and developments including new teammates with different skill sets/matchup abilities


When interchange is used with Smillie obviously interchange on field in different roles for Smillie is a greater likelihood given Smillies versatility, rather than taking Smillie off the ground. This is the point where there is no point putting Smillie on Darcy Wilson on a wing where he would blow up in a running contest that I can see unless we have even better players than Smillie doing such things I believe we do not currently have, Rather we would want Smillie out on the ground all the time as much as possible, but his go would probably not be low ground ball versus a Draper. Ideally Smillie would be competing, to a degree likes Cripps and Bont and Fyfe but given he is taller he could inhibit others in key posts obviously, not to mention taking marks and kicking goals drifting forward. The thing with Smillie, given his size he could rest at a key post, even a forward or back pocket and make a difference with his size, presence and mobility

Given Smillie's profile and presence if at times Smillie is a extra defensive tool this should negate opposition scores. If he can drift forward when it suits, distribute and maybe even kick a goal himself in certain scenarios that helps of forward output. So if he helps us back and forward, regardless of what happens in the guts, that helps us win games unless another deficiency is created against us by doing so we cannot cover for adequately in team formations. This is where if our other players can compliment Smillies versatility, with their own versatility in their own way as a team dynamic, it helps us cover any weaknesses which may emerge from using Smillie in a certain way for our team gain
 
Last edited:
Lord of the Wings said:
We’ll have to agree to disagree but Twomey who has the best intel of anyone has confirmed he would have got through
Click to expand...
Hmm…not sure he’s said definitely.
Said it was likely in hindsight. But not definite.

Now if we had have let him slide and a club jumped in and traded up to one of the Saint or Melbournes picks, I’m not sure I’d be happy with getting a third tall intercept defender at 6 and only having one genuine mid in Lalor from our draft haul.

What we do know is that clubs were keen on players and didn’t risk trading down for fear of other clubs trading in and they miss out on them.

GWS, Sydney, Freo, Port and the Bulldogs were really clear on this strategy in this draft, more than ever before.

Nothing wrong with us doing the same and picking the players we really want when they are available to ensure we get them.
 
Lord of the Wings said:
We’ll have to agree to disagree but Twomey who has the best intel of anyone has confirmed he would have got through
Click to expand...
is that the same guy who said the day of that we were 50/50 on allan at 6?


i guess we picked smillie at 6 instead of allan because we knew allan would get through to our 10/11 picks..... wait we didn't take him there either????? wth too me!
 

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Mr Magic said:
this is a false logic.

You think we are playing checkers when we are playing chess.

It is like you bring batman and robin to a fight and I raise you with a Superman with no kryptonite weaknesses

First of all if Smillie plays CHB, why would he just play CHB and why would he play a conventional CHB??

If anything you raise a alternative situation, it is not like AFL plays with the segregation of Gridiron. The only restriction is the 6 6 6 at the bounce meaning Smillie could start in the guts or just out of the square at the bounce depending on what you are trying to do as a team

If Smillie is near CHB it is likely he would not stick to CHB all the time or for long periods meaning anyone of Gibcus, Trainor, Miller, Blight, Kosi, Young and others can support including others for the combined team role. The other possibility is Smillie plays his own hybrid position for him given he is such a unicorn where he plays mostly between half back and midfield with other support around him and he drifts forward or back depending on footy scenarios where we have other players that compliment such a setup, so Smillie becomes both a half back and a midfielder at the same time depending how the ball is coming in through transition, contest, in the air etc,,,

Even now AFL is largely positionless football. Smillie is a bit of a unicorn, so his type simply allows teams to take this concept to another level in combination with other team dynamics.

It is interesting some of points brought up by other posters. At least one question's Smillies competiveness in contest whicb may or may not be fair. What is fair is Smillie seems very mobile for a player of his size and skill. So a hybrid role that could interchange is more possible with Smillie with a higher IQ allowing other players to play different versatile roles in and around him resulting in different team formations throwing off opposition team defences.

If Smillie is so mobile and agile given his height and skill, and if their may be a slight question on competiveness in certain midfield scenarios, would it not make more sense playing Smillie and our teammates in scenarios that avoid these deficiences and maximise his strengths in other scenarios where he might be near big opponents and he can simply out manovourve with his agility and skill with our other teammates to create match up problems against opposition setups to give us advantages more consistently that help us win games where Smillies versatility is exploited and we are more successful as a result in combination with other players we have doing their thing in such away our opposition finds it difficult to stop.

The point is given Smillie's attributes is Smillie more effective if not played just as a midfielder all the time even though he can go in there? At this stage, even though some question Smillies contest work he could be more inside than Bont but maybe not Cripps but who knows. Either way Smillie might be more of a menace against opposition key position setups because he is bigger and stronger than Bont and a better kick with more balance as a distributor than Cripps let alone Fyfe. So what do you do?? Well it is a good problem to have and we have time on our side and Smillie has time to develop along with our other players in and around him to so we can be as effective as possible in methods of play in certain scenarios which obviously not be set in stone straight away and evolve as well over time with new innovations and developments including new teammates with different skill sets/matchup abilities


When interchange obviously interchange on field in different roles for Smillie given Smillies versatility rather than taking Smillie off the ground. This is the point where there is no point putting Smillie on Darcy Wilson on a wing where he would blow up in a running contest that I can see unless we have even better players than Smillie doing such things I believe we do not currently have, Rather we would wnat Smillie out on the ground all the time as much as possible but his go would not be ground ball versus a Draper. Ideally Smillie would be competing, to a degree likes Cripps and Bont and Fyfe but given he is taller he could inhibit others in key posts obviously not to mention taking marks and kicking goals drifting forward. The thing with Smillie, given his size he could rest at a key post, even a forward or back pocket and make a difference with his size, presence and mobility

Given Smillie's profile and presence if at times Smillie is a extra defensive tool this should negate opposition scores. If he can drift forward when it suits, distribute and maybe even kick a goal himself in certain scenarios that helps of forward output. So if he helps us back and forward, regardless of what happens in the guts, that helps us win games unless another deficiency is created against us by doing so we cannot cover for adequately in team formations. This is where if our other players can compliment Smillies versatility with their own versatility in their own way as a team dynamic it helps us cover any weaknesses which may emerge from using Smillie in a certain way for our team gain
Click to expand...
Yep Reaction GIF
 
Mr Magic said:
this is a false logic.

You think we are playing checkers when we are playing chess.

It is like you bring batman and robin to a fight and I raise you with a Superman with no kryptonite weaknesses

First of all if Smillie plays CHB, why would he just play CHB and why would he play a conventional CHB??

If anything you raise a alternative situation, it is not like AFL plays with the segregation of Gridiron. The only restriction is the 6 6 6 at the bounce meaning Smillie could start in the guts or just out of the square at the bounce depending on what you are trying to do as a team

If Smillie is near CHB it is likely he would not stick to CHB all the time or for long periods meaning anyone of Gibcus, Trainor, Miller, Blight, Kosi, Young and others can support including others for the combined team role. The other possibility is Smillie plays his own hybrid position for him given he is such a unicorn where he plays mostly between half back and midfield with other support around him and he drifts forward or back depending on footy scenarios where we have other players that compliment such a setup, so Smillie becomes both a half back and a midfielder at the same time depending how the ball is coming in through transition, contest, in the air etc,,,

Even now AFL is largely positionless football. Smillie is a bit of a unicorn, so his type simply allows teams to take this concept to another level in combination with other team dynamics.

It is interesting some of points brought up by other posters. At least one question's Smillies competiveness in contest whicb may or may not be fair. What is fair is Smillie seems very mobile for a player of his size and skill. So a hybrid role that could interchange is more possible with Smillie with a higher IQ allowing other players to play different versatile roles in and around him resulting in different team formations throwing off opposition team defences.

If Smillie is so mobile and agile given his height and skill, and if their may be a slight question on competiveness in certain midfield scenarios, would it not make more sense playing Smillie and our teammates in scenarios that avoid these deficiences and maximise his strengths in other scenarios where he might be near big opponents and he can simply out manovourve with his agility and skill with our other teammates to create match up problems against opposition setups to give us advantages more consistently that help us win games where Smillies versatility is exploited and we are more successful as a result in combination with other players we have doing their thing in such away our opposition finds it difficult to stop.

The point is given Smillie's attributes is Smillie more effective if not played just as a midfielder all the time even though he can go in there? At this stage, even though some question Smillies contest work he could be more inside than Bont but maybe not Cripps but who knows. Either way Smillie might be more of a menace against opposition key position setups because he is bigger and stronger than Bont and a better kick with more balance as a distributor than Cripps let alone Fyfe. So what do you do?? Well it is a good problem to have and we have time on our side and Smillie has time to develop along with our other players in and around him to so we can be as effective as possible in methods of play in certain scenarios which obviously not be set in stone straight away and evolve as well over time with new innovations and developments including new teammates with different skill sets/matchup abilities


When interchange obviously interchange on field in different roles for Smillie given Smillies versatility rather than taking Smillie off the ground. This is the point where there is no point putting Smillie on Darcy Wilson on a wing where he would blow up in a running contest that I can see unless we have even better players than Smillie doing such things I believe we do not currently have, Rather we would wnat Smillie out on the ground all the time as much as possible but his go would not be ground ball versus a Draper. Ideally Smillie would be competing, to a degree likes Cripps and Bont and Fyfe but given he is taller he could inhibit others in key posts obviously not to mention taking marks and kicking goals drifting forward. The thing with Smillie, given his size he could rest at a key post, even a forward or back pocket and make a difference with his size, presence and mobility

Given Smillie's profile and presence if at times Smillie is a extra defensive tool this should negate opposition scores. If he can drift forward when it suits, distribute and maybe even kick a goal himself in certain scenarios that helps of forward output. So if he helps us back and forward, regardless of what happens in the guts, that helps us win games unless another deficiency is created against us by doing so we cannot cover for adequately in team formations. This is where if our other players can compliment Smillies versatility with their own versatility in their own way as a team dynamic it helps us cover any weaknesses which may emerge from using Smillie in a certain way for our team gain
Click to expand...
THIS...
 
Mr Magic said:
this is a false logic.

You think we are playing checkers when we are playing chess.

It is like you bring batman and robin to a fight and I raise you with a Superman with no kryptonite weaknesses

First of all if Smillie plays CHB, why would he just play CHB and why would he play a conventional CHB??

If anything you raise a alternative situation, it is not like AFL plays with the segregation of Gridiron. The only restriction is the 6 6 6 at the bounce meaning Smillie could start in the guts or just out of the square at the bounce depending on what you are trying to do as a team

If Smillie is near CHB it is likely he would not stick to CHB all the time or for long periods meaning anyone of Gibcus, Trainor, Miller, Blight, Kosi, Young and others can support including others for the combined team role. The other possibility is Smillie plays his own hybrid position for him given he is such a unicorn where he plays mostly between half back and midfield with other support around him and he drifts forward or back depending on footy scenarios where we have other players that compliment such a setup, so Smillie becomes both a half back and a midfielder at the same time depending how the ball is coming in through transition, contest, in the air etc,,,

Even now AFL is largely positionless football. Smillie is a bit of a unicorn, so his type simply allows teams to take this concept to another level in combination with other team dynamics.

It is interesting some of points brought up by other posters. At least one question's Smillies competiveness in contest whicb may or may not be fair. What is fair is Smillie seems very mobile for a player of his size and skill. So a hybrid role that could interchange is more possible with Smillie with a higher IQ allowing other players to play different versatile roles in and around him resulting in different team formations throwing off opposition team defences.

If Smillie is so mobile and agile given his height and skill, and if their may be a slight question on competiveness in certain midfield scenarios, would it not make more sense playing Smillie and our teammates in scenarios that avoid these deficiences and maximise his strengths in other scenarios where he might be near big opponents and he can simply out manovourve with his agility and skill with our other teammates to create match up problems against opposition setups to give us advantages more consistently that help us win games where Smillies versatility is exploited and we are more successful as a result in combination with other players we have doing their thing in such away our opposition finds it difficult to stop.

The point is given Smillie's attributes is Smillie more effective if not played just as a midfielder all the time even though he can go in there? At this stage, even though some question Smillies contest work he could be more inside than Bont but maybe not Cripps but who knows. Either way, Smillie might be more of a menace against opposition key position setups because he is bigger and stronger than Bont and a better kick with more balance as a distributor than Cripps let alone Fyfe. So what do you do?? Well it is a good problem to have and we have time on our side and Smillie has time to develop along with our other players in and around him to so we can be as effective as possible in methods of play in certain scenarios which obviously will not be set in stone straight away and evolve as well over time with new innovations and developments including new teammates with different skill sets/matchup abilities


When interchange is used with Smillie obviously interchange on field in different roles for Smillie is a greater likelihood given Smillies versatility, rather than taking Smillie off the ground. This is the point where there is no point putting Smillie on Darcy Wilson on a wing where he would blow up in a running contest that I can see unless we have even better players than Smillie doing such things I believe we do not currently have, Rather we would want Smillie out on the ground all the time as much as possible, but his go would probably not be low ground ball versus a Draper. Ideally Smillie would be competing, to a degree likes Cripps and Bont and Fyfe but given he is taller he could inhibit others in key posts obviously, not to mention taking marks and kicking goals drifting forward. The thing with Smillie, given his size he could rest at a key post, even a forward or back pocket and make a difference with his size, presence and mobility

Given Smillie's profile and presence if at times Smillie is a extra defensive tool this should negate opposition scores. If he can drift forward when it suits, distribute and maybe even kick a goal himself in certain scenarios that helps of forward output. So if he helps us back and forward, regardless of what happens in the guts, that helps us win games unless another deficiency is created against us by doing so we cannot cover for adequately in team formations. This is where if our other players can compliment Smillies versatility, with their own versatility in their own way as a team dynamic, it helps us cover any weaknesses which may emerge from using Smillie in a certain way for our team gain
Click to expand...
Why not just let him play where he got drafted and see if he is any good. Posters questioning this or that means squat at this stage, the kid could be a bust for all we know and you have him playing in scenario's unique pretty much to him, a player yet to play a game.
 
"The Roar Is Back" said:
We draft a big bodied mid and people want to turn him into a half back flanker.
😂 😂

##hbfo##hbfobsessionisreal
Click to expand...
It's amazing the crap people post. This kid will play in a midfield role. Time in the square may initially be limited, however, we did not draft this guy to be developed as a HB. I can see him playing possibly on the ball part time and a wing until he develops an engine.
 
sanaya said:
is that the same guy who said the day of that we were 50/50 on allan at 6?


i guess we picked smillie at 6 instead of allan because we knew allan would get through to our 10/11 picks..... wait we didn't take him there either????? wth too me!
Click to expand...
Cal’s intel on Smillie came after the draft. Some clubs at least give him their full rankings list.
 

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Grrr said:
Why not just let him play where he got drafted and see if he is any good. Posters questioning this or that means squat at this stage, the kid could be a bust for all we know and you have him playing in scenario's unique pretty much to him, a player yet to play a game.
Click to expand...


because we are not in the business of playing players where they where drafted in the year they where drafted.

Believe it or not RFC is in the business of helping teams win premierships and fans enjoying such success. Over and above players winning brownlows and what not.

Smillie could not play advanced positions pre-draft because where he played prior to the draft would not have the expertise, support and incentive to do so.

If Smillie was just a typical player you may have a case, the trouble is Smillie being taller than Bont, Fyfe and similar height to Cripps yet with arguably slightly different attributes fits the profile of a unicorn. Guess what, how long have big body midfielders been going?? You are going off a small sample size. No one is saying Smillie cannot play in the midfield, rather why would it be beneficial to him and the team for him to play there all the time?? This is not a union movement driven by the lowest common denominator!! RFC is trying to win premierships at some point.

There was one stage a shorter Joel Bowden was playing CHB for RFC. No one is saying Smillie is locked into CHB either, why not see what Smillie can do in a number of roles?? We are not winning a premiership in 2025, may as well learn how effectgive some of our players are together in some situations.

The other thing is we have a lot of talls. We can try things differently. For example Kosi may not be effective soley as a CHB. But if Kosi is in the area alongside a Smillie that combination around CHB may prove very difficult to penetrate as Kosi would be more air while Smillie more ground and the two compliment each other. Kosi can go in the ruck and elsewhere, Smillie can go in the midfield and elsewhere so nothing is set in stone and a different setup on the backline could take over depending on matchups versus oppositions

the other thing is, to win, the game is about stopping the opposition kicking a score and us kicking a winning score, no rules have changed that dynamic yet
 
Last edited:
Lord of the Wings said:
Smillies break out game came playing HBF in the Academy game on Grand Final day 2023. I reckon it’s likely he starts there in the seniors
Click to expand...
less pressure, less scrutiny.

The thing is Smillie is different it is just as interesting for us to see how our other players play around him especially given we have a lot of other talls that can do different things.

the bottom line is our success is a team success, nothing changes that. We do not win premierships without the team

Smillie cannot win a premiership by himself, the team must have buy in for us to win premiership(s)
 
Mr Magic said:
because we are not in the business of playing players where they where drafted in the year they where drafted.

Believe it or not RFC is in the business of helping teams win premierships and fans enjoying such success. Over and above players winning brownlows and what not.

Smillie could not play advanced positions pre-draft because where he played prior to the draft would not have the expertise, support and incentive to do so.

If Smillie was just a typical player you may have a case, the trouble is Smillie being taller than Bont, Fyfe and similar height to Cripps yet with arguably slightly different attributes fits the profile of a unicorn. Guess what, how long have big body midfielders been going?? You are going off a small sample size. No one is saying Smillie cannot play in the midfield, rather why would it be beneficial to him and the team for him to play there all the time?? This is not a union movement driven by the lowest common denominator!! RFC is trying to win premierships at some point.

There was one stage a shorter Joel Bowden was playing CHB for RFC. No one is saying Smillie is locked into CHB either, why not see what Smillie can do in a number of roles?? We are not winning a premiership in 2025, may as well learn how effectgive some of our players are together in some situations.

The other thing is we have a lot of talls. We can try things differently. For example Kosi may not be effective soley as a CHB. But if Kosi is in the area alongside a Smillie that combination around CHB may prove very difficult to penetrate as Kosi would be more air while Smillie more ground and the two compliment each other. Kosi can go in the ruck and elsewhere, Smillie can go in the midfield and elsewhere so nothing is set in stone and a different setup on the backline could take over depending on matchups versus oppositions

the other thing is, to win, the game is about stopping the opposition kicking a score and us kicking a winning score, no rules have changed that dynamic yet
Click to expand...
I have no problem with Smillie playing half back if that is where he is best suited in the end. But I want to see how he goes in the middle fist because with his unique skill set and size he is very much in the Cripps, Bont, Fyfe mould. All three were or are three of the best in the business as midfielders, a few Brownlow's and a mountain of AA's.

He could follow their lead, or maybe not, but until he is trialled as a mid we won't know. We are desperate for mids and not desperate for backs, so if we are going to win premierships, I would say he will be a lot more influential as a dominant mid than a dominant back.
 
sanaya said:
is that the same guy who said the day of that we were 50/50 on allan at 6?


i guess we picked smillie at 6 instead of allan because we knew allan would get through to our 10/11 picks..... wait we didn't take him there either????? wth too me!
Click to expand...
pick 6 is cursed

smilie went 7
 
Grrr said:
I have no problem with Smillie playing half back if that is where he is best suited in the end. But I want to see how he goes in the middle fist because with his unique skill set and size he is very much in the Cripps, Bont, Fyfe mould. All three were or are three of the best in the business as midfielders, a few Brownlow's and a mountain of AA's.

He could follow their lead, or maybe not, but until he is trialled as a mid we won't know. We are desperate for mids and not desperate for backs, so if we are going to win premierships, I would say he will be a lot more influential as a dominant mid than a dominant back.
Click to expand...
I want premierships, how do AA, brownlows help us and the team???

Freo has not won a premiership, nor Carlton in recent years, and Bulldogs was carried in 2016 by the umpires arguably

I would argue Fyfe and Bont are in a different mould. Bont's skill and poise is sublime while Fyfe is known for his competitive marking

Cripps is a little closer but Smillie and Cripps move differently they are not the same, different make ups to. Cripps appears lighter on the ground and slimmer. We do not want to make Smillie into something he is not especially if he can be better in his own way closer to his own true set of attributes

There is almost no comparison to Fyfe and Smillie I would think, more contrast, the only similarity might be 3-5 cm of height differential
 
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Mr Magic said:
I want premierships, how do AA, brownlows help us and the team???

Freo has not won a premiership, nor Carlton in recent years, and Bulldogs was carried in 2016 by the umpires arguably

I would argue Fyfe and Bont are in a different mould. Bont's skill and poise is sublime while Fyfe is known for his competitive marking

Cripps is a little closer but Smillie and Cripps move differently they are not the same, different make ups to. Cripps appears lighter on the ground and slimmer. We do not want to make Smillie into something he is not especially if he can be better in his own way closer to his own true set of attributes

There is almost no comparison to Fyfe and Smillie I would think, more contrast, the only similarity might be 3-5 cm of height differential
Click to expand...
Thank God some can see and read the bigger football picture...
The Club is in the business of winning Premierships...player positioning is of secondary importance!
 

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Player Watch #16 Josh Smillie

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