Toast 2014 National Draft, pick #31 - welcome to Hawthorn Daniel Howe

[Dewnior]

The dogs game was an out of the box one though. He needs to try to compete at that level more often.

There was also his games against Melbourne x2 and Freo where he was poor.

The challenge is on his shoulders now to show just how well he can play.

Watch the last 6-8 games of the year, he was excellent in most of them. The stimulus could well have been a conversation he had during the season about 2022 and beyond.

 

[Dewnior]

Gary Rohan has played in 3 grand finals.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

As I’ve said multiple times - when Howe is fit and available for selection he is overwhelmingly picked in the side. Not sure how that’s not a best 22 player. He has very seldom suited up for Box Hill since 2016.

The past tense needs to be used.
He “has” been picked, but that was by a different coach who was looking over a list with less midfield options that need developing than we have now.

The fact he was told to look at his options suggests Sam and the list management team were quite ok with him not being there to be called on in 2022.

 

[Yardie]

I'm gonna back crazy eyes in! In hindsight I think that his issue was that he played to the team structure. So instead of doing what came naturally he would stop, prop, think it over, do the team instruction and occasionally stuff it all up. Hence why Clarkson kept him in the team.

However, when he went back to Boxhill during the year he absolutely dominated under Sam with some freedom. This then translated into good form in the seniors. I'm hoping for the same this year under Sam.

 

[H00t]

Watch the last 6-8 games of the year, he was excellent in most of them. The stimulus could well have been a conversation he had during the season about 2022 and beyond.

He had a really good game against the dogs. Played good games against GWS and Tigers. Played a couple more middling games and some poor ones against dees and Freo.

I’m just not seeing what others are. He is good one-on-one compared to the average winger. But he offers little otherwise.

 

[Slainte]

He had a really good game against the dogs. Played good games against GWS and Tigers. Played a couple more middling games and some poor ones against dees and Freo.

I’m just not seeing what others are. He is good one-on-one compared to the average winger. But he offers little otherwise.

He reads the play well, gets to good positions and, increasingly makes good decisions with ball in hand. His main limitation is lack of leg speed.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Howe may have been given the green light to explore his options then only given a one year contract, however it's worth remembering that Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

25

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

went one better than that 12 months ago by being delisted and re-rookied.

Sounds like he's had a great pre-season after a career best patch of form to finish off 2021. I'm not making a prediction, but I will just say that if he ends up playing 22 games in 2022 I won't be as shocked as others might be. It'll simply mean he's earnt now there there is fierce competition for spots.

 

[H00t]

He reads the play well, gets to good positions and, increasingly makes good decisions with ball in hand. His main limitation is lack of leg speed.

He gets a lot of his ball by being the get out kick on the switch. His positioning otherwise hasn’t really impressed me.

His decision making is still way too slow to be useful. And his kicking is limited to short kicks to open targets. We tried to play through him a lot last year. But he was a big part of our ball movement problems.

Which is also something I’m concerned about. If we try and play a fast, attacking style it’s not going to suit Howe at all.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The past tense needs to be used.
He “has” been picked, but that was by a different coach who was looking over a list with less midfield options that need developing than we have now.

The fact he was told to look at his options suggests Sam and the list management team were quite ok with him not being there to be called on in 2022.

We were also willing to accept good offers for Mitchell and Jaeger but come round 1 they’ll be two of the first picked. Sydney rumoured to be willing to offer a second rounder but couldn’t make the cap work. Much as I like Howe I’d have gladly taken a second round so perhaps the club were just playing the game as opposed to being desperate to ship Howe off. If he was as dispensable as some make out he’d have not gotten a one year deal - see Jim Cousins.

There’s only so many players I’d be willing to say are best 22 as I am withholding judgement until the practice games - and I wouldn’t say Howe is a walk up start if there are limited injuries. However my point with Howe has been - he has been a best 22 player when fit for some time and I think some forget that.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We were also willing to accept good offers for Mitchell and Jaeger

False equivalence. We wanted high picks.

Howe was told to look around. Was only offered 12 month on return. It’s not the same thing.

 

[Flukey!]

Maybe Howe wanted 2 years and no better offer was available elsewhere so he signed for 1?
His renewal was announced during trade period.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Howe may have been given the green light to explore his options

He was told we wanted to trade him.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

False equivalence. We wanted high picks.

Howe was told to look around. Was only offered 12 month on return. It’s not the same thing.

I wasn’t trying to say they were the exact same - I was saying we were being flexible with the list prior to the draft and that picks were highly sought after. If the club was direct with Howe and told him he was free to find a trade elsewhere I don’t think that’s a wholesale indictment on Howe’s ability to get a game this year should his form dictate. As someone rightly pointed out, Dylan Moore was on the cusp of delisting and is now our second small forward to be picked after Breust.

The fact that Sydney were keen on him seems to suggest he’s of some value when you consider their list and ladder position in 2021. Also that they were apprently ready to part with a second rounder to do so would indicate to me that they didn’t intend on him to be playing reserves.

Really not sure why some people are so keen to stamp Howe’s papers - and not suggesting you are but it’s just a vibe here. If he improves on a career year - then that’s a win for us. If he gets overtaken by a player in the 19-21 year old bracket then that’s a win for us also. At worst he’s a solid and reliable depth player and only 27 this year so not exactly hurting our list’s age profile.

 

[threesixpio]

I wasn’t trying to say they were the exact same - I was saying we were being flexible with the list prior to the draft and that picks were highly sought after. If the club was direct with Howe and told him he was free to find a trade elsewhere I don’t think that’s a wholesale indictment on Howe’s ability to get a game this year should his form dictate. As someone rightly pointed out, Dylan Moore was on the cusp of delisting and is now our second small forward to be picked after Breust.

The fact that Sydney were keen on him seems to suggest he’s of some value when you consider their list and ladder position in 2021. Also that they were apprently ready to part with a second rounder to do so would indicate to me that they didn’t intend on him to be playing reserves.

Really not sure why some people are so keen to stamp Howe’s papers - and not suggesting you are but it’s just a vibe here. If he improves on a career year - then that’s a win for us. If he gets overtaken by a player in the 19-21 year old bracket then that’s a win for us also. At worst he’s a solid and reliable depth player and only 27 this year so not exactly hurting our list’s age profile.

Not sure SYL wants his papers stamped.

The most important fact in all of this is not so much the offering up for a trade but the 12 month contract that was offered afterwards

A 12 month contract more often than not means “you need to work on xyz or you’re out”, particularly someone at his relatively young age

 

[Brishawk]

We shopped Brad Sewell

Brad Sewell

Age

40

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

and he want on to be a multiple premiership player and club champion. I’m not going to assume the place in the side of Howe because we shopped him. We didn’t get the price we wanted and we won’t get it via free agency either so he either plays to his best form and gets another contract or he gets let go at the end of the year. It is really up to Dan how this plays out.

 

[threesixpio]

We shopped Brad Sewell and he want on to be a multiple premiership player and club champion. I’m not going to assume the place in the side of Howe because we shopped him. We didn’t get the price we wanted and we won’t get it via free agency either so he either plays to his best form and gets another contract or he gets let go at the end of the year. It is really up to Dan how this plays out.

Spot on. Dan might use this all for motivation and play his butt off and get offered an extension of multiple years

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Not sure SYL wants his papers stamped.

In fairness I explicitly said that

 

[threesixpio]

In fairness I explicitly said that

Oops . Was a long post

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If the club was direct with Howe and told him he was free to find a trade elsewhere I don’t think that’s a wholesale indictment on Howe’s ability to get a game this year should his form dictate.

He was disappointed to be told that they wanted to trade him.

Just tor clarity I’ve said this a few times now, but it’s not the same as saying he was told he was free to look around.

He didn’t want to leave, but the club wanted something for him, and when nothing of substance was forthcoming they signed him on a 12 month contract.
So yes, he might stake his claim on a spot in 2022, but this discussion kicked off regarding him being a definite for the 22, and all evidence suggests this simply isn’t the case under Sam.

 

[Slainte]

He gets a lot of his ball by being the get out kick on the switch. His positioning otherwise hasn’t really impressed me.

His decision making is still way too slow to be useful. And his kicking is limited to short kicks to open targets. We tried to play through him a lot last year. But he was a big part of our ball movement problems.

Which is also something I’m concerned about. If we try and play a fast, attacking style it’s not going to suit Howe at all.

I think both the speed of his decision-making and his kicking improved last season. It is also worth mentioning that he is pretty dependable overhead.

 

[cryptor]

Howe is a free agent at the end of this season. An unrestricted one if his salary this year isn't in our top 25% (highly likely).

Even if he wanted to leave in the last trade period he would be fielding offers on the back of a number of injury interrupted years and a most recent season that was fairly tepid outside of a hot run home. It would be a bad career move to sign a new deal elsewhere on average-at-best terms and lose access to free agency.

If he backs himself (as any player who is now fit, at their prime age, and going into free agency) then it makes the most sense to only take a 1 year deal with the Hawks. All he needs to do in 2022 is prove that he is as good or better than his late '21 season form for a whole season and he will have his pick of a bunch of very healthy contract offers including Hawthorn.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I did notice yesterday on the social media posts when all the boys were entering the park that Howe looked leaner than i've ever seen him and a lot more so than most of the other boys. Generally this time of year the blokes are doing more weight training and look bigger. He's always had natural strength so I wonder if he has made it a focus this pre-season to trim off any excess weight (much like Jordan Lewis

Jordan Lewis

Age

38

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

310.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

5star

did) in order to cover the ground better.

 

[CHUBBSS]

I did notice yesterday on the social media posts when all the boys were entering the park that Howe looked leaner than i've ever seen him and a lot more so than most of the other boys. Generally this time of year the blokes are doing more weight training and look bigger. He's always had natural strength so I wonder if he has made it a focus this pre-season to trim off any excess weight (much like Jordan Lewis did) in order to cover the ground better.

He did get really fit coming into last year after his injuries, I wonder if it’s less about the weight and more that he has been working on his running significantly. It would be hard to hold the extra weight on if that was the case

 

[Judd2Sewell]

We shopped Brad Sewell and he want on to be a multiple premiership player and club champion. I’m not going to assume the place in the side of Howe because we shopped him. We didn’t get the price we wanted and we won’t get it via free agency either so he either plays to his best form and gets another contract or he gets let go at the end of the year. It is really up to Dan how this plays out.

Sewell was shopped at a very different stage of his career though. He hadn't established himself as a senior player as yet, never mind coming off a career best year.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I did notice yesterday on the social media posts when all the boys were entering the park that Howe looked leaner than i've ever seen him and a lot more so than most of the other boys. Generally this time of year the blokes are doing more weight training and look bigger. He's always had natural strength so I wonder if he has made it a focus this pre-season to trim off any excess weight (much like Jordan Lewis did) in order to cover the ground better.

He looks extremely lean and fit at training.