List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Fact is if Henderson wants to leave to play for a Geelong or any other top 4 team (for eg) then it ain't going to happen. They will not be able to offer him a huge fee and Carlton will easily match it. If he is after money then Brisbane could be in the box seat. Just sign the contract Lachy and let's move on.

I wouldn't be surprised if he signs on in the next month or so if we keep performing like we are. It's amazing what a difference it can make if the team is playing competitive football, getting some wins and the locker room is a happy environment.
He looked like he was enjoying himself out there.

 

[rp84]

Big difference is that players drafted to NBA are usually at the end of college and 21 so ready to step into being a pro.

This isn't true with top picks in the NBA anymore. The vast majority of early first round picks are 'one and done' players. Most players are drafted at 19 or so. All of this years top 6 or 7 will be one year college players.

 

[rp84]

Yarran looked good on Saturday, but it looks like he's still playing angry. Not sure where his head is at and i think he might be the most intriging player to watch at seasons end.

I thought Yarran was well below his best for most of the game. Fairly good in some contests though, which isn't usually his strength.

 

[HBF]

I thought Yarran was well below his best for most of the game. Fairly good in some contests though, which isn't usually his strength.

I'd like to see him up the ground more. He's wasted deep in defence. I'd play him on a wing and forward.

 

[rp84]

I'd like to see him up the ground more. He's wasted deep in defence. I'd play him on a wing and forward.

I honestly have no idea of where his best position is. I feel that his best games are when he gets freed up on the half back line and becomes a 100m player.

As a forward, he has often struggled for consistency. Has never really had a run on the wing, so that could be interesting. Not sure it is as easy to get cheap kicks in the midfield, or even on the wing where he would probably have a shut down player assigned to him. At half back, his best games have come from when he isn't really tagged, and can just get the easy handball and take off.

I would like to see just a few runs in the midfield, in 5 min bursts. See if he will ever get the tank (which looks unlikely now).

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

.............and we are but I just don't get it no matter which way I look at it.

Unless Henderson has an underlying physical issue (which he had had last year) why would we pay Carlisle overs and get rid of a leader in Henderson?
Not for the 'culture'..........that's for sure.

It is starting to look that we've fired a lot of blanks GWS's way. The SOS connection wasn't too strong at all.

Hendo may just want out

 

[chunkylover53]

Barker can publicly state as much as he likes... it isnt his job. Sos is the one who is going to be making the decisions on who will be staying and who will be going. If he decides that Yarran is staying, then it is going to be someone like Henderson who is going.

You are completely dreaming if you think a coach doesn't have a say in who stays or who goes. Coaches tell list managers who they need and who they don't. Imagine Graham White telling Alistair Clarkson who he can and can't have stay on the list - lol.

SOS doesn't sit in the coaches box every week, talk to the players every single day etc, develop game plans to suit them. The list manager should communicate with the coach and act accordingly. He should be focusing on contracts, identifying talent, managing the salary cap, demanding analyses from the coaching staff regarding players, managing his recruiting department etc. Not analysing players from the 3rd level of the stands and being the only one involved in making final decisions.

Am I the only one worried about how much power SOS has been given? Has he seriously "conducted an audit" on our list after 8 games under a pathetic Mick Malthouse game plan that exposed every ounce of weakness our players have? (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/re...-on-carlton-list/story-e6frf7jo-1227359502536) . He rolls into our club, does a little analysis after not being at the club for the past decade, and sells the board on a "4 year rebuild process", our recruiter who was also doing a fine job got his nose out of joint when he rolled in too. Not a good look.

I really like what SOS did at GWS and think he has a brilliant football brain and does know what he is doing. But really worried he has been given a little too much power. Also concerned how he can be our List Manager but simply separate himself from decisions regarding his sons. Weird.

 

[Doro]

You are completely dreaming if you think a coach doesn't have a say in who stays or who goes. Coaches tell list managers who they need and who they don't. Imagine Graham White telling Alistair Clarkson who he can and can't have stay on the list - lol.

SOS doesn't sit in the coaches box every week, talk to the players every single day etc, develop game plans to suit them. The list manager should communicate with the coach and act accordingly. He should be focusing on contracts, identifying talent, managing the salary cap, demanding analyses from the coaching staff regarding players, managing his recruiting department etc. Not analysing players from the 3rd level of the stands and being the only one involved in making final decisions.

Am I the only one worried about how much power SOS has been given? Has he seriously "conducted an audit" on our list after 8 games under a pathetic Mick Malthouse game plan that exposed every ounce of weakness our players have? (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/re...-on-carlton-list/story-e6frf7jo-1227359502536) . He rolls into our club, does a little analysis after not being at the club for the past decade, and sells the board on a "4 year rebuild process", our recruiter who was also doing a fine job got his nose out of joint when he rolled in too. Not a good look.

I really like what SOS did at GWS and think he has a brilliant football brain and does know what he is doing. But really worried he has been given a little too much power. Also concerned how he can be our List Manager but simply separate himself from decisions regarding his sons. Weird.

The reasoning behind SOS is that we can now form a clear strategy with where our list is and where it's heading. This was the biggest problem in the past, a mish mash of ideas between coach, football manager and recruiter about the correct way to go. Is it best available? Is it needs based? Is the clock at 11 or 1? Time will tell on just how fine a job Rogers was doing, but I'm okay with our club joining the party and appointing a list manager.

 

[Dramoth]

You are completely dreaming if you think a coach doesn't have a say in who stays or who goes. Coaches tell list managers who they need and who they don't. Imagine Graham White telling Alistair Clarkson who he can and can't have stay on the list - lol.

SOS doesn't sit in the coaches box every week, talk to the players every single day etc, develop game plans to suit them. The list manager should communicate with the coach and act accordingly. He should be focusing on contracts, identifying talent, managing the salary cap, demanding analyses from the coaching staff regarding players, managing his recruiting department etc. Not analysing players from the 3rd level of the stands and being the only one involved in making final decisions.

Am I the only one worried about how much power SOS has been given? Has he seriously "conducted an audit" on our list after 8 games under a pathetic Mick Malthouse game plan that exposed every ounce of weakness our players have? (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/re...-on-carlton-list/story-e6frf7jo-1227359502536) . He rolls into our club, does a little analysis after not being at the club for the past decade, and sells the board on a "4 year rebuild process", our recruiter who was also doing a fine job got his nose out of joint when he rolled in too. Not a good look.

I really like what SOS did at GWS and think he has a brilliant football brain and does know what he is doing. But really worried he has been given a little too much power. Also concerned how he can be our List Manager but simply separate himself from decisions regarding his sons. Weird.

For this year at least... Barker is only the caretaker coach. HE has no say over list matters unless he has already been given the job of head coach and the club is only going through the motions of doing a job search.

 

[chunkylover53]

For this year at least... Barker is only the caretaker coach. HE has no say over list matters unless he has already been given the job of head coach and the club is only going through the motions of doing a job search.

Yeah true.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

You are completely dreaming if you think a coach doesn't have a say in who stays or who goes. Coaches tell list managers who they need and who they don't. Imagine Graham White telling Alistair Clarkson who he can and can't have stay on the list - lol.

SOS doesn't sit in the coaches box every week, talk to the players every single day etc, develop game plans to suit them. The list manager should communicate with the coach and act accordingly. He should be focusing on contracts, identifying talent, managing the salary cap, demanding analyses from the coaching staff regarding players, managing his recruiting department etc. Not analysing players from the 3rd level of the stands and being the only one involved in making final decisions.

Am I the only one worried about how much power SOS has been given? Has he seriously "conducted an audit" on our list after 8 games under a pathetic Mick Malthouse game plan that exposed every ounce of weakness our players have? (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/re...-on-carlton-list/story-e6frf7jo-1227359502536) . He rolls into our club, does a little analysis after not being at the club for the past decade, and sells the board on a "4 year rebuild process", our recruiter who was also doing a fine job got his nose out of joint when he rolled in too. Not a good look.

I really like what SOS did at GWS and think he has a brilliant football brain and does know what he is doing. But really worried he has been given a little too much power. Also concerned how he can be our List Manager but simply separate himself from decisions regarding his sons. Weird.

Do we really know how much power SOS has been given? Or is it a figment of our imagination because he's another club legend that's been appointed as a saviour? Don't get me wrong, I like the appointment, but let's not pretend that he hasn't come in with some sort of messiah tag attached to him. So he's done an audit of the list under a crappy Malthouse plan that exposed all the player weaknesses.... and this is bad how?
Would you prefer the audit get done when we are playing good and the weaknesses are hidden? The players now have the freedom and confidence to play some good, competitive footy, and have the rest of the year to make that audit look like it isn't worth the paper it's written on (but at least we'll still know their weaknesses).
IMO the "rebuild" required isn't as full on as we have been led to believe. In reality we are pretty much 2 years into it with 20+ players turned over in that time. A bit of smart recruiting, some good draft picks, a new coach that can get all the players rowing in the same direction and things will turn around fairly quickly. I don't think we are too far from having a team that can push into the 8.
I'm not going to get drawn into the good and the bad of having Mick at the club, but if we'd been playing like we are now for the whole first half of the season, we probably would be pushing for a spot.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Ok, so the aim of the following post will be to establish what we have on our list right now in terms of positional players, what we will require going forward and to draw from these some potential strategy for the off-season. I am an advocate of playing every game to win, so we will not be entertaining any theories of securing the no.1 draft pick or the like.

Let's begin with a straightforward sorting of the playing list into positional categories, secondary roles or potential roles are in brackets:

Abbreviations used: Small Forward (SF) Medium Forward (MF) Tall Forward (TF) Small Defender (SD) Medium Defender (MD) Tall Defender (TD) Inside Midfielder (IM) Outside Midfielder (OM) Ruck (R) Tagger/Run With Player (T)

Small Forward:
Jason Tutt (OM) - 24yo
Clem Smith (OM, SD) - 19yo
Dennis Armfield - 28yo
David Ellard (IM) - 26yo

Medium Forward:
Troy Menzel (OM) - 20yo
Tom Bell (IM/OM) - 24yo
Blaine Johnson - 19yo

Tall Forward:
Lachlan Henderson (TD) - 25yo
Levi Casboult (R) - 25yo
Liam Jones - 24yo
Matthew Watson (TD) - 22yo
Jayden Foster - 20yo

Small Defender:
Chris Yarran (OM, SF) - 24yo
Sam Docherty (OM) - 21yo
Kade Simpson (OM, SF) - 31yo
Dylan Buckley (OM) - 22yo

Medium Defender:
Andrew Walker (OM, MF) - 29yo
Nick Holman (IM) - 20yo
Matthew Dick - 20yo
Zach Tuohy - 25yo
Simon White (TD, MF) - 27yo
Billy Gowers (OM) - 19yo
Ciaran Byrne (MF) - 20yo
Ciaran Sheehan - 24yo
Dillion Viojo-Rainbow - 19yo

Tall Defender:
Michael Jamison - 29yo
Sam Rowe (TF, R) - 27yo
Kristian Jaksch (TF) - 20yo
Tom Fields - 22yo
Cameron Giles - 20yo

Inside Midfielder:
Marc Murphy (OM, SF) -27yo
Patrick Cripps - 20yo
Nicholas Graham - 21yo
Andrew Carazzo (T) - 31yo
Mark Whiley - 22yo
Bradley Walsh -18yo

Outside Midfielder:
Bryce Gibbs (IM) -26yo
Andrejs Everitt (MF, MD, T) -26yo
Dale Thomas - 28yo
Blaine Boekhurst (MF) - 21yo

Ruck:
Matthew Kreuzer (TF) - 26yo
Robert Warnock - 28yo
Cameron Wood - 28yo

Tagger:
Ed Curnow (IM) - 25yo

OK. So just by looking at the list (excluding the retired champion, C.Judd) we can see that:

• we have young talent emerging in the inside midfield.
• several younger medium and small defenders who are coming through and showing promise. But several older players in the backline who will soon retire
  
• tall forwards entering their hypothetical "prime" and tall defenders departing it.
  
• Our rucks are all in their "prime" as well, but we need a next generation player.
  
• Our small forwards lack a consistently dangerous player.
• Our outside midfielders are more sparse than is reasonable and lack zip
• We have only 1 or 2 marking mediums in our forward line, and this limits structural options
  
• If we presume all players 28yo and over are "transition players" only here to maintain structure and teach newcomers, and not a feasible part of the next premiership push then we rule out Walker, Carazzo, Simpson , Warnock, Wood, Jamison, Thomas and Armfield. This hits our rucks hardest, and our defense somewhat.

From this we can say that some of our key recruitment aims might be:

• We need a key position defender for the next generation, this year preferably.
  
• A new young ruck (a mature-age early 20's may be appropriate)
• Several real "class" outside mid draftees who can add to the run and spread
• A dangerous small forward with goal sense
• Medium and Small defenders, preferably of a classy variety
• Marking medium forward

We know that we have three potential F/S draftees this year:

Bailey Rice: Medium defender, efficient and composed. 2nd round probable
Jack Silvagni: Marking medium forward. 3rd round or later probable
Jake Bradley: Outside Mid. Rookie or undrafted, very raw.

IF we assume we get the first two (Rice is up in the air due to St Kilda F/S) then we still need the KPD, Ruck, Outside Class, Small Forward, Medium Defender.

It is worth noting that the last three categories overlap to some degree. A classy mid might start their career in defence, or as a small forward. Similiarly the early development of a KPD prospect is usually in a medium defender style role.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

People are seriously underestimating Scott Selwood on this board, if we got him (as a free agent) he could re-ignite his career like Bernie Vince at Melbourne has.

 

[Moody Blue]

A previous poster commented on the continual leaking of information which should not be in the public forum and how it detracts from the club and does nothing for morale or the perception of professionalism. Clearly some on the Board believe that leaking to the media they are somehow making their mark. What they are doing is giving boofheads like Robinson fuel to deflect talk about the drugs saga, but also a future story about how divided the Board remains. SOS has a job to identify the best possible talent to select. Everyone applauded his appointment, but now we are hearing rumblings of how much power he has. I didn't hear everyone complaining about how much power Elliott or Pratt held, or how much power various members on the Board hold (until recently). There will be six or seven changes again to the list and with the influx of players and a little bit of luck we could be on our way. Cripps taught us that a well thought selection in the first round of the draft is crucial. We just cannot afford to trade our first round selection, irrespective of how good the trade appears. In the meantime let's hope we get to see more of the positive football we have seen in the past few weeks and also some of the young'uns i.e. Clem Smith, Boekhorst, Viojo-Rainbow and a few others. Even Watson seems to have responded and from all reports played a blinder in the VFL. He(and a few others) are playing for their careers and we all look forward to see what they can do now that the shackles have been removed.

 

[dumb]

jake neade. not getting games at port, quick, good tackler. also pretty small. probably a bit smarter around goals than most of who we have that pass for our small forwards these days. i like the idea of armfield as a small forward for everything other than goal-kicking, but he isn't terribly skilful.

 

[thylacine60]

Geez, poor time to be knocking Dangles' goal-kicking and skills.............hear what you are saying but..............

 

[passmark]

jake neade. not getting games at port, quick, good tackler. also pretty small. probably a bit smarter around goals than most of who we have that pass for our small forwards these days. i like the idea of armfield as a small forward for everything other than goal-kicking, but he isn't terribly skilful.

Not sure about Jake Neade.

Football wise I'm sure he'd be fine. But if we get saturday night games with BT Jake Neade becomes "JAKEY NEADE, THE BOY FROM ST PAT"S COLLEGE BALLARAT!!!!!"
Then two hours of Jakey this, Jakey that, Jakey wears a funny hat!!!!!!!!!!

Jakey, Jakey, Jakey!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Azul]

Jake Anstey, Jake Edwards - stay away from players named Jacob.

Sam Jacobs is welcome back any time.

 

[mediumsizered]

Yarran looked good on Saturday, but it looks like he's still playing angry. Not sure where his head is at and i think he might be the most intriging player to watch at seasons end.

I get the impression that Yaz is not enjoying his football at the moment.

 

[HBF]

I get the impression that Yaz is not enjoying his football at the moment.

Same.
A good start would be to release him from the backline. Play him up the ground a bit.

 

[ferrisb]

Make him the sub... Worked for the last coach

 

[Neese]

I'd like to see him up the ground more. He's wasted deep in defence. I'd play him on a wing and forward.

I think Bell has taken that position on well

 

[HBF]

I think Bell has taken that position on well

We still speed through the midfield and forward of centre. We've got Bucks back for run and carry out of defence.

 

[Neese]

I'm all for more than one though
I do agree with the people who say that Yarran seems angry as well as not happy. I'd like to give him a big hug and see him smile again

 

[newblueo]

armfield is a funny one do we keep him on or play a kid in his role?
this year he has got about a goal a game which is good for a half forward flanker, his papers were stamped I felt pre season but he has proved me wrong,