List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[Chasing 17]

Close to 6m over 8 years for Treloar, worth it?

There is a handful of clubs interested in Treloar, notably Collingwood, Richmond and North Melbourne. And Carlton, where former Giants recruiter Stephen Silvagni has now moved, is also a suitor.

It is understood clubs have offered contract terms potentially up to seven or eight years for Treloar and up to $750,000 in at least some of those years.

Richmond and North Melbourne are believed to have discussed more significant terms than Collingwood or Carlton.

The picture is complicated by uncontracted Brisbane Lions player James Aish, who is being pursued by Collingwood and Carlton.

Coniglio, 22, had significant interest from Carlton and Essendon as well as back home in Perth at West Coast but he decided to remain at the Giants where he was drafted with pick two in 2011.

 

[Bronze]

Wow, I can't believe what I'm hearing. These are seriously bad deals for Carlton.

Henderson and pick 20 for Pick 8. Shocker. Surely Geelong's first pick is acceptable, no sweeteners needed by Carlton.

Yarran for Pick 18 and small forward who has played a handful of decent games in his career is not a good deal. Taberner would be handy but doubtful Freo would let go of a future KPF.

Carlisle is horrendous. Forget about the ASADA stuff and possible suspension. He is one of the most frustrating footballers around. We don't need to add him to the list when we have ordinary key position players like Casboult, Jones, Rowe and White giving us grief each week.

If Carlton really want Carlisle (for some strange reason) then give Essendon Watson and a third round pick.

From what I have heard Hendo is willing to stay but has been told he will likely be traded to Geelong which he's prepared to agree to.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Stockpile on the draft picks, let's not get suckered into quick fixes.

Just for once hey.

Generally yeah. Treloar wouldn't be a quick fix though. Guaranteed young and already gun.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Generally yeah. Treloar wouldn't be a quick fix though. Guaranteed young and already gun.

No need for Messiah time.

We are gunna bottom out over the next 2 years, maybe lose a couple of so-called guns....... but we will get pick of the crop, probably 3 in the top 20 for 2 years, and won't have to spend a gajillion bucks.

Patience........

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Wow, I can't believe what I'm hearing. These are seriously bad deals for Carlton.

Henderson and pick 20 for Pick 8. Shocker. Surely Geelong's first pick is acceptable, no sweeteners needed by Carlton.

Henderson hasn't been increasing his value and is 26 this year. Put it this way, if he was somewhere else, I wouldn't be giving up Pick 8 for him, not even close.

Yarran for Pick 18 and small forward who has played a handful of decent games in his career is not a good deal. Taberner would be handy but doubtful Freo would let go of a future KPF.

Agreed we would want something around 10-12 for him. Another player whose value is not increasing and he is a free agent next year. We may have to give.

Carlisle is horrendous. Forget about the ASADA stuff and possible suspension. He is one of the most frustrating footballers around. We don't need to add him to the list when we have ordinary key position players like Casboult, Jones, Rowe and White giving us grief each week.

If Carlton really want Carlisle (for some strange reason) then give Essendon Watson and a third round pick.

Apparently Carlisle's issue is that he is being played out of position, but even so ... Watson and a pick around 40? Won't happen. I'd wager some of the suggestions you are upset about would be closer than what you are proposing.

From what I have heard Hendo is willing to stay but has been told he will likely be traded to Geelong which he's prepared to agree to.

I think he wants a good deal if he is prepared to agree to go. Must be straddling that line.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

No need for Messiah time.

We are gunna bottom out over the next 2 years.......will get pick of the crop, and won't have to spend a gajillion bucks.

Patience........

No, not a messiah. Absolutely no messiahs. I do like the bird in the hand as far as proven good player vs possible good player though and a 2 for 1 is plausible. The cost ... yeah it's a concern. Faith in SOS to make the right call for us and all that jazz.

 

[ferrisb]

You know what they say about hypothesizing. It makes a hypo and a siz out of ing and the. Pretty sure........

I think you made an ass out of u and not much else there, thy

 

[therubbernub]

What am I missing? Carlisle hasn't re-signed yet has he? I wasn't suggesting Essendon re-sign him. Just following the jungle drums which suggest he wants out. Most top players won't go into the PSD as it is considered a dog act. That would only happen if he desperately wants out and Essendon won't get a trade done.

Maybe i am jumping onboard the new reality of the free agency environment too early. It seems that even contracts mean nothing now with the boyd deal last year.
The reality is that the players have gained too much power , particularly if they are a top player.. Without a contract, essendon have nothing to trade. I am sure that is correct, even though i am no lawyer.
If he wants out... And who would blame him, then he can ask for a trade. But if essendon are trying to be too smart and ask for too much, which it is predicted they will, then the player has the option of the PSD. would essendon be so stupid? Well the whole painful drug cheat fiasco suggests that they might.

 

[CarltonFan]

Wow, I can't believe what I'm hearing. These are seriously bad deals for Carlton.

Henderson and pick 20 for Pick 8. Shocker. Surely Geelong's first pick is acceptable, no sweeteners needed by Carlton.

Yarran for Pick 18 and small forward who has played a handful of decent games in his career is not a good deal. Taberner would be handy but doubtful Freo would let go of a future KPF.

Carlisle is horrendous. Forget about the ASADA stuff and possible suspension. He is one of the most frustrating footballers around. We don't need to add him to the list when we have ordinary key position players like Casboult, Jones, Rowe and White giving us grief each week.

If Carlton really want Carlisle (for some strange reason) then give Essendon Watson and a third round pick.

From what I have heard Hendo is willing to stay but has been told he will likely be traded to Geelong which he's prepared to agree to.

Henderson is worth pick 30's and above, you've completely over estimated his worth.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

No, not a messiah. Absolutely no messiahs. I do like the bird in the hand as far as proven good player vs possible good player though and a 2 for 1 is plausible. The cost ... yeah it's a concern. Faith in SOS to make the right call for us and all that jazz.

We're gunna go through the mill for sure, MM, Gibbs and (god help me Wookie) Krooz provide the leadership, we use the draft, get the high picks who have collateral for a couple of years, be at 91.5 of the salary cap, then we throw out the cash.

Gunna take a couple of years, and I may being singing in the George Harrison Choir Immortal, but reckon that's the way to go.

We have been the worst drafting club of all time.

We got 3 right, and it entailed counting to one.

 

[ferrisb]

Speaking of draft orders and the numbers 1 and 3, we got something right....

Then again, the guy responsible isn't at the club any more...

 

[branedotorg]

Now we are back to some serious discussions.

I think that we are going to be seeing Carrazzo and Walker joining Judd in the retirement process.

Ellard after all his years of good service to the club will be given a golden handshake and be sent on his way... much to my disappointment. I like the guy and think that he is another Wiggans type player... the ultimate clubman and would be welcomed back at any time.

If Ellard is to be delisted and doesn't get a gig somewhere else in the PSD/rookie draft (or back to WA) I hope the club tries everything to keep him at the NBs.

 

[Dramoth]

If Ellard is to be delisted and doesn't get a gig somewhere else in the PSD/rookie draft (or back to WA) I hope the club tries everything to keep him at the NBs.

I think that if he didnt get picked up by another club (highly likely), he would think about staying at the Bullants and assist with the development of our young kids coming in over the next few years!

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Wake Up people - getting Carlisle through the PSD is not going to happen, It will just be used as leverage during negotiations.

Essendon in their current condition CAN NOT afford to let him walk for nothing.

 

[RiCHii]

Henderson is worth pick 30's and above, you've completely over estimated his worth.

WOW really? Henderson is very easily worth a top 10 pick IMO. You are clearly undervaluing him here. Quality KPP's do not grow on trees.

Is that you Chris Scott?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Surely the club will give Watson a fair dinkum go before we just throw him out? He hasn't really been given a fair go in the seniors to be fair and it would just be insane to delist him on the back of the chances the club have given him. I say just throw him in for the rest of the season to see what he has to offer before just throwing this guy out!


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Now that Gibbs is gone for the year, can push Bell back into the middle and bring Watson into the forward line. I would get him in now with a view to playing 4 weeks in a row. Can be extended to the last 4 weeks if he looks like he's finding his legs.

 

[bluekidjoe]

If Hendo and Yarran go we'll get first rounders that are pretty spot on and realistic, given recent output and years left.

Hendo - Pick 8
Yarran - Pick 16-18

If Yaz gets traded I expect either the pick we get (16-18) or our 2nd rounder (20-21) will go to Brisbane for Aish (should he choose us).

If Hendo goes we'll hold pick 8 close.

So, three picks in the first rd (3, 8, 16) if both go and we trade our second for Aish....

 

[RiCHii]

If Hendo and Yarran go we'll get first rounders that are pretty spot on and realistic, given recent output and years left.

Hendo - Pick 8
Yarran - Pick 16-18

If Yaz gets traded I expect either the pick we get (16-18) or our 2nd rounder (20-21) will go to Brisbane for Aish (should he choose us).

If Hendo goes we'll hold pick 8 close.

So, three picks in the first rd (3, 8, 16) if both go and we trade our second for Aish....

Clubs are talking about how "shallow" this draft is, so it shouldn't be too hard for them to offload picks for quality players like Henderson and Yarran.

 

[Big Sim]

What am I missing? Carlisle hasn't re-signed yet has he? I wasn't suggesting Essendon re-sign him. Just following the jungle drums which suggest he wants out. Most top players won't go into the PSD as it is considered a dog act. That would only happen if he desperately wants out and Essendon won't get a trade done.

ODN you are an intelligent poster. How do you think a trade for Carlisle will work, given that shortly after the trade period his PED case will be heard by CAS and a number of indicators, one being his guilt and another WADA's success rate in winning appeals, suggest he will be suspended for one to two seasons?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

ODN you are an intelligent poster. How do you think a trade for Carlisle will work, given that shortly after the trade period his PED case will be heard by CAS and a number of indicators, one being his guilt and another WADA's success rate in winning appeals, suggest he will be suspended for one to two seasons?

You note that all my Carlisle talk contains the words 'WADA dependent'. I don't know when the case is heard or what will be gleaned as far as possible penalties before the case. I'm merely following the rumour mill and the desire of others to talk about it. Hell, I don't even rate Carlisle.

I know others rate him, I know roughly where the market value sits for him regardless of what I think of him. All of my opinions are hypotheticals based on WADA not being a factor.

As for what happens at WADA, no idea. I believe that something was taken that shouldn't have been. I believe that some players probably didn't care so much what they were taking as it was working. I believe that they failed in their personal duty of care to ask more questions and seek more answers. The problem as I see it is that there are 34 names on the docket. If just one has done nothing wrong, the risk of condemning an innocent player may just outweigh the likely guilt of the other 33. How on earth they can pinpoint the guilty based on dodgy consent forms is hard to fathom.

I believe they deserve the stigma because they were stupid. I think a guilty but a small penalty is the most likely scenario. I think getting off altogether is more likely than 2 year suspensions.

 

[RiCHii]

ODN you are an intelligent poster. How do you think a trade for Carlisle will work, given that shortly after the trade period his PED case will be heard by CAS and a number of indicators, one being his guilt and another WADA's success rate in winning appeals, suggest he will be suspended for one to two seasons?

Well all these things will be taken into consideration by the club if we do decide to make a play for him. I think the club would be in a better position than us, to know how the WADA case against Essendon is going to go, so they can definitely use that as leverage when trading for Carlisle.

If it means only offering a 3rd/4th round pick for him then so be it.

 

[Big Sim]

I believe they deserve the stigma because they were stupid. I think a guilty but a small penalty is the most likely scenario. I think getting off altogether is more likely than 2 year suspensions.

Although this is a topic for another thread, you could well be right there. It could be that WADA is much more interested in preventing the establishment of a precedent whereby the dodginess of a clubs dealings (records, witnesses) get them off doping than getting the players rubbed out for a couple of years. It is my understanding that if WADA establish that they are after a soft penalty then the bar for comfortable satisfaction will lower, making it easier for them to win the appeal.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Now that Gibbs is gone for the year, can push Bell back into the middle and bring Watson into the forward line. I would get him in now with a view to playing 4 weeks in a row. Can be extended to the last 4 weeks if he looks like he's finding his legs.

The problem for Watson is when he looks down to find his legs, he loses his balance and falls over.

If only his head was smaller, we might have had a star player!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Close to 6m over 8 years for Treloar, worth it?

Says up to 750k in at least some of those years. So if a team has space, you entice a young player over at 750k for the first couple of years, 550-600k for another 5. I don't agree with the contract length. That's crazy and I can't believe how many teams are desperately selling the farm with some of these players. It's a gamble. The mindset is Treloar is a gun, he will probably be a gun for 10 years. Yes he may get injured but not many teams delists a gun because they are injured for a year or two and great strides have been made in knee surgeries and the like. So they figure he will be commanding 700k for much of his career, just over a few contracts. They just cut out the contract tension. Job security ... it's attractive.

It could be $4.5m over 7 years, rather than 6 over 8. It's doable. Very doable for a team with some of its highest earners departing.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

The problem for Watson is when he looks down to find his legs, he loses his balance and falls over.

If only his head was smaller, we might have had a star player!

Season's already stuffed. Send him in now for head reduction surgery.