List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[BluesRule]

Senior delist: Carrazzo, Judd, Ellard, Tutt, Warnock, Watson (consider re-rookie), Jones (subject to TPP considerations)

Rookie delist: Fields, Wood (if we have a guaranteed elevation written up for him we're idiots), Russell, Johnson

Rookie promote: Byrne, Sheehan

Re-sign: Armfield (1 year), Curnow (2 years), Kreuzer (3 years), Holman (2 years), Giles (1 year with 1 year option), Everitt (2 years with 1 year option)

Trade: White (upgrade our 3rd round pick into 2nd round), Rowe (free to a good home), Henderson (pick 10 and change)

Ideal incomings:

PSD: Carlisle
Trade: Stewart for pick 19
Draft: Weitering, pick 10, Pick 30ish, Rice, SOSOS

Nice work.

I think only 8-10 changes to the list will happen this year, as we cannot turn more over for good value return.

Tutt is contracted for another year. Doubt anyone will trade, plus gives us depth if he can improve composure.
For mine, unless we have a KPF lined up I think Watson should get a 1 year contract (but only if we are going to play him) as need a big KPF/ruck backup. Happy to exit Jones now if we can agree a payout.
Fields showed some ability, so needs another year as a rookie (possible Jamo replacement).
Probably also keep Woods for one year unless we trade in a better ruck.
Trade out one of White and Rowe makes sense if we get Weitering. Not sure what we would get.

Upgrades:
Weitering>Rowe
Aish>Bell (I hope)
Rice>Ellard
SOSOS>Jones (I hope)
Carlisle = Hendo? (PSD or pick #21 or 39 (activated extra pick #19))
C. Curnow>Carrazzo (Hendo pick #10)
Rookie Ruck
Rookie Ruck (USA Fella)
Pick #21 or #39 - best available

Downgrades
Pick #3 < MK (FA?)
Pick #14 < Yarran

 

[Blugazi]

My current vibes on our off season...

Trades

Lachie Henderson + Pick 21 > GEEL
Pick 10 + Pick 29 > CARL

Tom Bell + Pick 29 > BRIS
James Aish > CARL

Pick 39 > GWS
Jed Lamb > CARL

Chris Yarran > HAW
James Sicily + Pick 17 > CARL

Troy Menzel + Pick 17 > ADE
Pick 11 + Pick 30 > CARL

I'm still holding out hope Yarran and Menzel will both stay.

Draft

National:
Pick 2 Jacob Weitering
Pick 10 Charlie Curnow
Pick 11 Josh Dunkley*
Pick 30 Ben Crocker
Pick 57 Jack Silvagni (F/S)

*Potential F/S to the Swans, but has yet to commit.

Rookie:
Pick 2 Michael Hartley
Pick 20 Daniel Rioli
Pick 38 Matt Korcheck

Delisting/Retirements

Out: Judd, Carrazzo, Warnock, Ellard, Watson*
Rookie Out: Wood (upgrade), Johnson, Russell

Think that he may still hold some value.

Round 1 2016

B: Jacob Weitering, Michael Jamison, Kade Simpson
HB: Sam Docherty, Sam Rowe, Zach Tuohy
C: James Aish, Nick Graham, Bryce Gibbs
HF: James Sicily, Kristian Jaksch, Dennis Armfield
F: Andrejs Everitt, Andrew Walker, Levi Casboult
Foll: Matthew Kreuzer, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy
I/C: Dale Thomas, Blaine Boekhorst, Ed Curnow, Dylan Buckley

B: Tom Fields, Michael Hartley, Matthew Dick
HB: Ciaran Sheehan, Cam Giles, Simon White
C: Ciaran Byrne, Josh Dunkley, Nick Holman
HF: Charlie Curnow, Liam Jones, Jason Tutt
F: Jed Lamb, Jayden Foster, Jack Silvagni
Foll: Cameron Wood, Mark Whiley, Brad Walsh
I/C: Daniel Rioli, Ben Crocker, Clem Smith, Dillon Viojo-Rainbow, Billy Gowers, Matt Korcheck

Coaching Panel

Brendon Bolton (Senior Coach)
Neil Craig (Director of Coaching)
John Barker (Senior Assistant & Development)
Dean Laidley (Midfield)
Lenny Hayes (Midfield Development)
??? (Backs)
??? (Forwards)

Leadership Group

Marc Murphy (Captain)
Michael Jamison (Vice-Captain)
Matthew Kreuzer (Vice-Captain)
Kade Simpson
Sam Docherty
Patrick Cripps
Nick Graham

Feel free to rip apart.

 

[zeeCFC]

Blugazi Think you're paying overs for Lamb with 39 and way too much for Aish.

Lamb would get done in a Garlett style trade, essentially for nothing.

 

[Blue Razor]

Trades seem good and fair
No Carlisle (Trade) or (PSD)
No Rice (F/S) with Pick 30
Rather trade Yarran to Richmond for their pick but that's my opinion
Also would like to see if Carlton could get a small forward like Brandon Matera

 

[Azul]

Where did this Lamb rumour come from? Failure at 2 clubs - let's develop our own.

 

[HARKER]

Casboult underrated

Only for necessary relief as if he is to be our key forward, then that's where he has to stay, I feel.

Kreuzer, Wood, a free hit with Korchek on Cat B and another developing ruck-man, if one is indeed suitable, should see us through.

 

[Jimmae]

To be going into next year with Kreuzer as our only plausible option in the ruck (if he stays) is inviting disaster. Would be a horrendous error from the club.

Casboult could easily start as ruck, but Wood is the worst second ruckman in the league, so I'm not sure lacking an experienced ruckman is really going to hurt us if it comes to that.

You should be thinking less about the impact of not having a recognised ruck, versus the actual impact of Wood against the impact of another midfielder or tall coming in. Two years of training and 20ish games of AFL football have not reinvigorated his career.

Blugazi Think you're paying overs for Lamb with 39 and way too much for Aish.

Lamb would get done in a Garlett style trade, essentially for nothing.

Who are we delisting and trading out to provide for these 10 list spots? I honestly don't see any value in outgoing trades for us, aside from Henderson.

Or are we letting Byrne, Walsh, Wood and Sheehan battle it out for 2 nominated slots next season?

 

[LordLucifer]

Blugazi Think you're paying overs for Lamb with 39 and way too much for Aish.

Lamb would get done in a Garlett style trade, essentially for nothing.

Beat me to it.

 

[Azul]

Feel free to rip apart.

I don't mind the Sicily trade but not really overwhelmed by the Aish, Lamb and Menzel ones.

I suspect Aish would go to his native state.

 

[branedotorg]

He's still only 20 and will pick up the pace required.

Can look a little lazy at times though......like many, I guess. He's a smart kid.

Smart enough to work as hard as he needs to.

Not the guy to lift the team average but should increase output as the group around him does?

 

[HARKER]

Smart enough to work as hard as he needs to.

Not the guy to lift the team average but should increase output as the group around him does?

Jaksch isn't Bootsma who continually failed to work to dietary instructions.

You can see the class in Jaksch even when he looks a though he's not really trying. I'm not worried about him.He should be fine.

 

[ODNBlue]

One Word... Watson.

That's rarely one word...

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Only for necessary relief as if he is to be our key forward, then that's where he has to stay, I feel.

Kreuzer, Wood, a free hit with Korchek on Cat B and another developing ruck-man, if one is indeed suitable, should see us through.

Oh I wouldn't enter a game intending for Casboult to ruck the majority. Just can't see why people are now calling for him to be traded.
He's not a great ruck & I'm not convinced he'll ever be a great forward. But he is decent at both, and there's surprisingly few of those around

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Think with motlop most likely staying with geelong, Richmond might come hard for Yarran. If they do, I think the trade should be:
Yarran and our 4th for Lennon and their third.

The window is now for Richmond. They wouldn't want to give up lennon, but sometimes when you get close, you need to give up more to get the potential missing piece.
The pick upgrade may also help for the father son points needed.

 

[ShanDog]

CAUTION: LONG POST

I don't think we will be cutting as deep as some people are thinking or hoping this year; to some of our disappointment, guys like Ellard, Armfield and Watson might get on the end of another one year contract (if they are out which I think they are).

The reason is basically because we already have a number of retirements happening, one confirmed trade (Hendo) and one confirmed bonfire made of member's money (Warnock) for trade/delist. With the exception of Henderson, we won't be getting anything of note, if anything at all in return for delisting or trading most of the players that should be moved on. The numbers could be countered slightly with the upgrading of Byrne and/or Sheehan to the senior list, but it still looks like we are going to lose more players than decent picks we receive back.

We can essentially break the list down to two parts - those who are young enough to be a part of our next top 4 team and those who aren't. So, starting with the oldies:

Gone already / delist or trade this year
Judd - retired
Hendo - already gone
Warnock -
Carrazzo - probably retire at year's end
Ellard - just not worth a spot on the list anymore. Thanks for your efforts


Keep as long as they contribute
Walker
Simpson
Rowe
Armfield
Thomas - have a feeling he will succumb to injury and retire before we challenge
Jamison



Now, to the future. These guys can be there when we are good and not be carrying a zimmer:

Probably won't make it / trade / delist
Watson - I doubt he will make it but happy to see a one year extension
Jones - doubt anyone will trade for him before contract is up
Tutt - could prove me wrong but doubt he will
White - would like to see him reinvent himself as a forward but will ultimately be gone in a couple years I think

Core group of the next 5 years
Menzel
Murphy
Gibbs
Buckley
Kreuzer
Cripps
Boekhorst
Yarran
Docherty
DVR
Jaksch
Giles
Holman
Whiley
Smith
Foster
Bell
Dick
Graham
Everitt
Curnow
Casboult
Tuohy

SO, that's only 33 players on the list after our last game, meaning we will take a minimum of 5 draftees without me including any 'rumoured' player departures such as Bell, Yarran and Menzel.

If we want to cut deep, we have plenty to choose from if we are ruthless enough about the list. Problem is, we then have to reach deep into the draft because we won't be getting much in return for the ones who are contracted and traded. The others are simply delisted or we get next to nothing for trades. Come on down pick #88! Not exactly enticing.

SOS will have to weave some magic with the trades he does to ensure he gets the maximum number of picks and that those are worthwhile (i.e. second round or earlier) if we want to have a half dozen ND selections worth doing.

 

[Doggy Dan]

Are the Dogs living in false hope that we could snare Kruezer or will it simply not happen? I'm sure our offer would be as good as Frawley so you would get pick 3. Seems a win/win. But he is such an important figure at your club.

 

[Jimmae]

Are the Dogs living in false hope that we could snare Kruezer or will it simply not happen? I'm sure our offer would be as good as Frawley so you would get pick 3. Seems a win/win. But he is such an important figure at your club.

Frawley's offer apparently didn't trigger Band 1 compo until the AFL intervened.

 

[ShanDog]

Are the Dogs living in false hope that we could snare Kruezer or will it simply not happen? I'm sure our offer would be as good as Frawley so you would get pick 3. Seems a win/win. But he is such an important figure at your club.

Really doubt it. It's far more likely that the club will want him to re-sign than get pick 3. If we were willing to let him go, I would be questioning his medical issues if I were you guys.

 

[zeeCFC]

Simon White has been comfortable best 22 for a long while now. He's a long way away from being moved on...versatile strong body, smart player and liked by the players/coaches.

 

[Heres Waite]

Are the Dogs living in false hope that we could snare Kruezer or will it simply not happen? I'm sure our offer would be as good as Frawley so you would get pick 3. Seems a win/win. But he is such an important figure at your club.

It sounds like Kruezer is staying on, going by what Trigg said yesterday. He was categorical in Kruezer wanting to stay and Carlton wanting to keep him. Just a matter of drawing up the contract. Sounds like Bolton wants to keep him.

 

[HARKER]

Core group of the next 5 years
Menzel Murphy Gibbs Buckley Kreuzer Cripps Boekhorst Yarran Docherty DVR Jaksch Giles
Holman Whiley Smith Foster Bell Dick Graham Everitt Curnow Casboult Tuohy

You can't have Dick, Foster & Smith ahead of Byrne & Sheehan...............You just can't!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ShanDog]

Relax Harks, I didn't include the rookies at all in those lists lol

 

[ShanDog]

Simon White has been comfortable best 22 for a long while now. He's a long way away from being moved on...versatile strong body, smart player and liked by the players/coaches.

I like him too, but can't see how someone can make a 200 game career out of being average at all positions. He really needs to lock one down I think.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Re Kreuzer.... I think he stays if the compo is pick 3. The top two seem standouts but the loss probably outweighs the reward after that.

 

[zeeCFC]

Here's a team of players I think will be there in 5 years time: Nobody over 26 selected.

FB: Tuohy, Weitering*, Buckley
HB: Sheehan, Giles, Byrne
C: Docherty, Gibbs, Boekhorst
HF: Smith, Jaksch, Viojo-Rainbow
FF: Everitt, Casboult, Menzel
R: Kreuzer, Cripps, Graham

IC: Curnow, Holman, Whiley
EMG: Yarran, Bell, Walsh, Foster - We'll wait and see with these four where their careers take them


I managed to make in my mind a best 21 (with Weitering added). I think that's a great platform to build on. Just need another quality mid, I have Docherty there but he looks comfortable as a backman.