List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[Red Bull]

Really looking forward to seeing the progress of 18yo Rainbow .
Supporters need to remember he is coming off a TAC cup fitness base so he won't be as advanced as a mature aged recruit like Vandenberg .
We won't see the best of him this season , but give him another pre season & we will get a better look at how important a pacy winger can be in the modern game .

 

[alfo]

Really looking forward to seeing the progress of 18yo Rainbow .
Supporters need to remember he is coming off a TAC cup fitness base so he won't be as advanced as a mature aged recruit like Vandenberg .
We won't see the best of him this season , but give him another pre season & we will get a better look at how important a pacy winger can be in the modern game .

I had a friend who went to school with Rainbow, said he was a fitness freak (coming from a mate who is also a handy runner).
I think it's more a case of him developing physically (e.g. size) to break into the 1s. As most people have stated in the past, can see him being a Simo type player. If he's half the player Simo has been that'd be a great result for us!

 

[Moody Blue]

We have turned over 22 players in the past 2 years, I imagine we will do a similar number this year

Out of contract and likely to be delisted unless something seriously changes
Warnock
Arnfield
Ellard
Wason
Blaine Johnson
Giles
Holman

If anyone has read King's article in the Herald Sun today he is absolutely spot on. We just keep recruiting the wrong players. We have no forward line and we will have to rebuild our midfield next season when Judd and Carazzo retire. Judd will be sorely missed as he has carried this team for a very long time. I think you will find that Henderson is off contract at the end of the season and he has already put talks on hold until the end of the season, which is not encouraging. If we do not renew MM's contract then who? Bomber Thompson? Not sure he would go to Carlton unless he was given a 5 year contract. Could go for Ratten after his experience at Hawthorn which would be an interesting scenario. Either way the Board needs to get their heads out of their backsides and show some leadership and make a decision on MM. Port Adelaide was a basket case a few years ago. A new coach (who we never interviewed or ever looked at) an injection of youth and look at them today. We gave up Eddie, Jacobs, Robinson for nothing and received a 60+ selection for Garlett. That has to cease. Now we will lose Warnock for nothing when we could have traded him to Melbourne or GWS last season. Crazy. Once upon a time negotiating with Carlton was a torrid affair, now clubs just call our bluff.

 

[Cringle]

Both Rory Thompson and Charlie Dixon are free agents are years end.

Dixon could really be the forward partner Henderson needs.

 

[ferrisb]

As for all the boeky concerns, chilli out peeps.

Yes, mature age but that doesn't mean he is ready to go season 1, round 1.

Isaac Smith was a similar pick and a huge success story. Didn't debut til rnd 7(ish) in first year , played a couple, got injured, spent a couple at vfl before being promoted and never looking back.

Not saying boeky will mimic that exactly, but let's wait a couple of months (and potentially some grounding at vfl) before we jump to conclusions.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Exactly ferrisb

 

[xtront16]

Both Rory Thompson and Charlie Dixon are free agents are years end.

Dixon could really be the forward partner Henderson needs.

Not eligible until end of next year!

 

[jd2010]

Anyone still paddling out the "it's just 1 game line"? On target for our 3rd goalless quarter out of the 6 we've played.

Thank god for St Kilda

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Anyone still paddling out the "it's just 1 game line"? On target for our 3rd goalless quarter out of the 6 we've played.

Thank god for St Kilda

We're not allowed to judge until after round 4...

 

[jd2010]

We're not allowed to judge until after round 4...

Is there a market on how many goalless quarters we have by then? I'd say 10+

 

[pepalenko]

Unless there is a massive turnaround in the next half, i have some real worries about our short to mid term future.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Are people ready for a complete rebuild now???

 

[gandaal]

Hey look on the bright side. If we're headed for a major rebuild of the list at least we don't have that idiot Rogers drafting our next generation.

 

[jd2010]

This season is a write off 2 games in. No exaggeration at all. We'll carry MM to his record and probably not sack him because the new management won't want to be seen as a scatter gun hire/fire mob. The players aren't playing for the jumper/careers/coach. There is no plan B. Plan A is poor.

Like I said. Thank god for St Kilda. My 8th-12th prediction is really looking a stretch. Re-evaluation is 12th-17th

 

[Red Bull]

Are people ready for a complete rebuild now???

Never gunna happen here mate .
Nobody's going anywhere , we love all the boys ...

 

[LordLucifer]

Are people ready for a complete rebuild now???

Damn straight !!

 

[jd2010]

Will MM get to his milestone?

 

[LordLucifer]

There will be a lot of people here who are quite raw and thoroughly disillusioned right now and with good reason too. However, I posted the stuff below earlier in the week and without ever wanting to come off in a condescending 'I told you so' manner, after tonight's debacle against the Eagles, I think this plan holds more weight than it did when I originally typed it :




Whilst I don't agree with everything "IAMCARLTON" posted in relation to his changes to the playing list, I do think his sentiment regarding building a premiership list was heading in the right direction.

From my perspective, the last two years has been the most progressive trading & drafting we have ever engaged in. On the surface, trading out #7 seemed like lunacy but getting Jaksch, Whiley & #19 in return was simply superior horse-trading that benefitted us immensely plus Everitt the year before was a major bonus. The drafting of Cripps, Giles, Smith, Rainbow appear to be not only smart choices, but they clearly have set the benchmark of what we are going to do going forward.

We have also had the gumption to remove players who are problems for us and have not aided the overall work ethic & culture around the club (eg. Robinson, Waite).

The difficulty we face right now is that even though we have offloaded around half of the list, we still have a handful of players who are destined to be delisted at the end of the season (eg. Ellard), others we have been praying they kick-on and become something (eg. Watson) plus we are well short of enough players of suitable standard in two important facets of the game, ruckman & key position forwards.

"IAMCARLTON" suggested trading out a number of our key commodities which was a little overzealous but I'm not that far behind him in this area. Yarran & Henderson need to persevered with but there are some he listed that I would certainly consider trading now whilst they still have the currency.

The turnover of players has given us some hope for the future but we still have some way to go before we really are a contender again, in fact we may yet be 5 more long years away. For that reason, I would be putting Gibbs & Murphy on the trade table and get some mileage out of the trades now.

With Dangerfield mooted to be ending up at Geelong, the Crows would be cashed up and ready to replace him and Gibbs would go a fair way down the track of doing that for them, especially as they are ready to make a challenge for the flag now too. A decent draft pick (first-round) and a solid up & coming 22-24yo player (eg. Kerridge) from them and I'd see that as a decent deal for us.

Murphy to GWS for Dylan Shiel & Tom Downie and both clubs would have a win-win, GWS get a mature readymade player to assist with their finals assault and we get another young mid plus a project ruckman which we are in dire need of.

Overall, we just need to be realistic about where we are and what we need over the next 2-3 years, here's my overview on it all :

THE PAST
Robert Warnock - delist or trade
Andrew Carrazzo - retire
Dennis Armfield - delist or trade
Chris Judd - retire (happy to see him go around again though)
David Ellard - delist
Kade Simpson - soon to retire

THE PRESENT
Ciaran Sheehan - no more Irish experiments please
Ciaran Byrne - no more Irish experiments please
Cameron Wood - short-term option only
Zach Touhy - trade now
Levi Casboult - trade now
Matthew Watson - trade now
Tom Bell - trade now
Marc Murphy - trade now whilst we can
Bryce Gibbs - trade now whilst we can
Andrew Walker - trade now or play till he retires
Michael Jamison - trade now or play till he retires
Sam Rowe - play till he retires
Simon White - play till he retires
Dale Thomas - play till he retires

THE FUTURE
Dylan Buckley
Andrejs Everitt
Chris Yarran
Sam Docherty
Troy Menzel
Nick Graham
Patrick Cripps
Cameron Giles
Matthew Kreuzer - one more serious injury and its trade time
Lachie Henderson
Kristian Jaksch
Mark Whiley
Ed Curnow - one and only tagger on the list
Nick Holman - needs to get a wriggle on
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Clem Smith
Blaine Boekhorst

THE UNKNOWN
Jayden Foster
Tom Fields
Brad Walsh - appears to be the best credentialled of the rookies to make it
Billy Gowers
Mathew Dick
Fraser Russell
Blaine Johnson
Jason Tutt - more than likely a short-term option
Liam Jones - more than likely a short-term option

 

[Cringle]

I'm trying to think of a club with a worse list...

 

[Blugazi]

Get Schache.

 

[Mentallo]

Our deplorable drafting, recruiting, list management as well as a very very questionable coaching change in the last 7 years or so are finally starting to bare fruit.

#SackRatten

 

[bourbons]

This season is a write off 2 games in. No exaggeration at all. We'll carry MM to his record and probably not sack him because the new management won't want to be seen as a scatter gun hire/fire mob. The players aren't playing for the jumper/careers/coach. There is no plan B. Plan A is poor.

Like I said. Thank god for St Kilda. My 8th-12th prediction is really looking a stretch. Re-evaluation is 12th-17th

Will give St Kilda a serious run for the spoon, only team I can see us beating right now.

Carrazzo has been a great warrior and club servant but he is finished. Carrazzo, Ellard, Curnow and Armfield all basically the same player with varying degrees of pace and endurance, would prob keep Curnow as a tagger but honestly you wouldn't lose much by clearing them all.

How Levi can have that ball drop after 5 years at an AFL club is mind blowing. Seriously, how does that happen?

 

[jd2010]

Will give St Kilda a serious run for the spoon, only team I can see us beating right now.

Carrazzo has been a great warrior and club servant but he is finished. Carrazzo, Ellard, Curnow and Armfield all basically the same player with varying degrees of pace and endurance, would prob keep Curnow as a tagger but honestly you wouldn't lose much by clearing them all.

How Levi can have that ball drop after 5 years at an AFL club is mind blowing. Seriously, how does that happen?

Said in the Malthouse thread. Only Yarran would get into the top 4 sides best 22

 

[Cringle]

Said in the Malthouse thread. Only Yarran would get into the top 4 sides best 22

That's rubbish.

However... although there would be more... you'd have a fair argument that Carltons best 22 would be the easiest to break into. Literally half the team are C Graders at best.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

I'm trying to think of a club with a worse list...

Bendigo Gold. And they no longer exist in the VFL.