List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[Wickzki]

Daisy is with us, we have paid for him and he holds zero trade currency so best for us to accept this and use him for his leadership and try and get him to contribute, he is never going to be the star player Mick and we got sucked into but can be servicable.

I agree here.

If Daisy can get a good run of injury free football he'll be precisely the type of veteran leader that the club needs over the life of his contract. He will certainly be overpaid for what he provides from an indepent output wise but that was always going to be the big risk going in. What he can and I believe will provide is going to be massive going forward. He's not the type of player you dump when you have a club devoid of leadership.

 

[rp84]

We have some of the basics already in place with our under 23 yo's with a bunch of players we know are talented enough to play at AFL level. Of the players I have listed all of them except Foster, Graham, Holman & DVR have shown enough to indicate they will at least be capable of being AFL footballers, they might just be foot soldiers but even hawthorn needs a bunch of those. We need a minimum of 3 of these guys + our draft picks this year to turn into elite players... From this list it appears only Cripps, Docherty and possibly Bell and Menzel have this capability which is why we need to nail these pics and make sure they are A grade players. We also severely lack KPP particularly KPF which for some reason none of our coaches since Kennedy left has felt the need to address.

We have
Bell - 23
Boekhurst - 21
Byrne - 20
Buckley - 22
Cripps - 20
Docherty - 21
Foster? - 19
Graham? - 20
Homan? - 19
Jaksch - 20
Menzel - 20
Smith - 19
Viojo - Rainbow? 19
Whiley - 22


IMO our situation isnt as dire as you, and most in the media are making out as we are already 2 years into our rebuild, and in that 2 years we have got Cripps & Docherty who are already well on the way to becoming stars and when we add more top end talent we will be in a great position to rebound quickly.

You can really spin it either way. It is all opinion afterall.

Cripps is the only one so far that has A+ potential AND work ethic.
Menzel has the potential, but does he have the work ethic? I am not an insider, so I do not know. Will he even be at the club? And if he does stay, is he going to be forward or find time in the midfield? Currently he looks a natural forward, and an unnatural mid. That isn't to say he can improve, however I see him as a 40-50 goal forward that can pinch hit in the midfield.
Docherty has A+ effort, however has many holes in his game still. He is definitely improving, and is completely besieged in a terrible defence this season. There are still plenty of questions regards his defensive game and his decision making.
Bell is perhaps the most interesting discussion. Looks amazing, and is a game breaker every few weeks at the moment. I think his improvement has been astronomical. He can be anything. Has improved all facets of his game this year. He is the truly interesting one, as if he keeps on this trajectory, he will be a 'free' star, which can help us move up a bit quicker.
Boeky is way too early to tell, but has potential.
Byrne is promising but too early to tell.
Buckley for mine won't make it. His speed is electric, but his decision making and skills are deplorable. This is a bad sign in a lifelong footballer. He isn't one of those new to the game players. He would have watched and played football his whole life. I certainly want to see him play the whole season, and potentially next before the final call is made. Definitely needs games.
Foster? Who knows. Long way to go.
Graham needs a big long run at playing senior footy. I am in the 'won't make it' camp. Needs to play some footy at AFL level though. Should play the rest of the year.
Holman? Going ok at VFL level from the reports I've read. Could he get a game soon?
Jacksch- I'm keen on this guy. Think he will be fine. IS the reason we need to keep Jammo for another year.
Smith, potential is there but is just playing on crack at the moment. Skills and hands are awful currently. Needs a solid run at it too. Not sure I see potential star there though.
V-R? who knows. Way too early to say either way.
Whiley- Needs games. Needs to stop playing as a tagger. Hoping he can be the goods.


If you analyse this group, there isn't a lot to get super excited about (except the obvious ones). These is only one definitely AFL KPP on that list. 1 definite star mid. Menzel the enigma wrapped in a conundrum. And then a whole lot of hit and hopes.

We need 4 more starting KPP hits, and two more A grade midfielders before the new list takes shape.

This will take 3-4 years picking and hitting in the top 5, and then doing well with our late 1st rounders.

 

[Wickzki]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...-jacob-weitering/story-e6frf3e3-1227350819808

Interesting story, could be good for us

Just like what Pickering did with Tom Boyd was good for us. Right?

Pickering is a slimeball.

 

[Azul]

Daisy is with us, we have paid for him and he holds zero trade currency so best for us to accept this and use him for his leadership and try and get him to contribute, he is never going to be the star player Mick and we got sucked into but can be servicable.

I never said trade him but if everyone over the age of 23 is 'accepting offers' then I'm suggesting a pick upgrade where we pay his salary is the best we'll get.

That is assuming the Brisbane 2013 firesale strategy of 5 picks in the 22-34 range.

 

[1981]

Cas is the Key
He kicks straight from now on and it unlocks almost half the battle

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I never said trade him but if everyone over the age of 23 is 'accepting offers' then I'm suggesting a pick upgrade where we pay his salary is the best we'll get.

That is assuming the Brisbane 2013 firesale strategy of 5 picks in the 22-34 range.

Yes but its only worth selling our players if we are going to get good draft picks in return for them, I doubt we could give Daisy away so we may as well just get the most we can out of him. We do need some experiance and some leadership to allow Cripps and Co to develop.

 

[Old navy]

I would like us to be aggressive at the draft table over the next two years and back SOS in to pick
the next Dylan Shiel or Adam Tarlor. His done it before pick both those players as bottom ages.

We finish last or close two this year. Henderson will be offered at least Frawley type money we bite the bullet and let him go.
Matty Kreuzer if he can finish the season off without breaking down might net us end of 1st round or
2nd round compo
We bite the bullet and Trade him.
By making some hard calls we could go to this years draft with 2 top 5 picks with a chance at having
picks 1 and 2.
We would then potential then go to the 2015 draft table with 4 pick in the top 25.

ATM it looks like we will finish in the bottom 4 next year as well.
So we bite down hard and let Yarran go. Again we get that pick tied to our ladder position.
Then we go to the draft table again with 2 top 5 picks and 3 in the top 25.

That makes 7 picks in total inside the top 30 over two consecutive years. With 4 picks in the top 5.
It will be painful but this is the way to building a list with enough talent to match with GWS and GS
in 4/5 year time IMHO.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I would like us to be aggressive at the draft table over the next two years and back SOS in to pick
the next Dylan Shiel or Adam Tarlor. His done it before pick both those players as bottom ages.

We finish last or close two this year. Henderson will be offered at least Frawley type money we bite the bullet and let him go.
Matty Kreuzer if he can finish the season off without breaking down might net us end of 1st round or
2nd round compo
We bite the bullet and Trade him.
By making some hard calls we could go to this years draft with 2 top 5 picks with a chance at having
picks 1 and 2.
We would then potential then go to the 2105 draft table with 4 pick in the top 25.

ATM it looks like we will finish in the bottom 4 next year as well.
So we bite down hard and let Yarran go. Again we get that pick tied to our ladder position.
Then we go to the draft table again with 2 top 5 picks and 3 in the top 25.

That makes 7 picks in total inside the top 30 over two consecutive years. With 4 picks in the top 5.
It will be painful but this is the way to building a list with enough talent to match with GWS and GS
in 4/5 year time IMHO.

Henderson isnt a free agent

 

[HereComesJuddy]

We would then potential then go to the 2105 draft table with 4 pick in the top 25.

If i have to wait 90 years for this rebuild, I'll be pissed!

 

[Kramer1]

Henderson isnt a free agent

Not an advocate of violence but if I see one more post citing Hendo as a FA I'm going full ****ing Singleton.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Not an advocate of violence but if I see one more post citing Hendo as a FA I'm going full ******* Singleton.

 

[Old navy]

If i have to wait 90 years for this rebuild, I'll be pissed!

Be pissed but not surprised

 

[No1Suspect]

Just like what Pickering did with Tom Boyd was good for us. Right?

Pickering is a slimeball.

He'll point his client in the direction of an offer worth 50 dollars more to his pocket.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Can't see the value in trading out a player like Yarran. He will be required when you are next challenging.

The Bulldogs got it right, offloaded very good players who they know won't be there when they are challenging in 2-3 years. Got good value for them to add valuable draft picks (and Boyd) to their already high picks.

The correct trading/drafting strategy is very important for a successful rebuild. Your last one "They know we're coming" has ended badly, got to get the next one right, hopefully SOS is the man.

A painful time for you guys, best to now go to the bottom for a couple of years to cash in on the high draft picks. A bugger that the compo pick is dead - tanks for that Melbourne!

 

[SickQwon]

Yarran will be at the club for at least another 7-8 years, should be in the premiership window by then, no point trading him.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Yarran will be at the club for at least another 7-8 years, should be in the premiership window by then, no point trading him.

Plenty of point trading him now or letting him go to free agency next year imo. We can see the benefits of a group of kids similar age growing together in gws. Boyd was happy to also get to the Dogs as they had many kids he had grown up with through the junior ranks and it was appealing to him.

Love Yaz, but thus is another of those tough trades that those who dare put themselves usually put themselves in a good position.

I firmly believe 3 of our best must go this year.

 

[King Hansen]

What you guy accept for Yarran this year? I think he will be a great fit for us. Especially with Wells nearing the end and not getting onto the park as often and our lack of outside polish and pace.

Can he play purely as an outside mid or better coming off the HBF?

 

[TeeJay Blue]

If i have to wait 90 years for this rebuild, I'll be pissed!

If this was the case, I would be witnessing the next premiership, in the form of ashes.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

What you guy accept for Yarran this year? I think he will be a great fit for us. Especially with Wells nearing the end and not getting onto the park as often and our lack of outside polish and pace.

Can he play purely as an outside mid or better coming off the HBF?

Your first pick and maybe Daniel Currie might just get the job done.

 

[thylacine60]

We'll take Waite or Yazz is off the table.

 

[Cringle]

What you guy accept for Yarran this year? I think he will be a great fit for us. Especially with Wells nearing the end and not getting onto the park as often and our lack of outside polish and pace.

Can he play purely as an outside mid or better coming off the HBF?

4th rounder.

Plays best at fullback.

 

[Mego Red]

No disrespect, but I think you're better off getting the right process for a rebuild in place, and not hoping for a magic bullet solution, like getting Aish for free in the PSD or clubs overpaying for someone on your list.

Go try for Aish - but there's no history of players actually entering the PSD in order to go to bottom ranked teams. It's discussed every year on BigFooty but never happens.

Trade Henderson. You'll get a first round pick for a key back and that's worth taking.

Trade Gibbs. You won't get what you would have gotten for him if you'd let him go as a free agent, but you'll get a late first. The Crows would probably do their first and second for Gibbs and your second, for example.

Let Kreuzer go, unless no one makes any kind of reasonable offer, which they may not.

Keep every senior player that provides leadership. Hold Yarren and Murphy for another year, as you may need to repeat this process.

It's probably hard to hear, but you're a minimum of five years away.

 

[ShanDog]

What you guy accept for Yarran this year? I think he will be a great fit for us. Especially with Wells nearing the end and not getting onto the park as often and our lack of outside polish and pace.

Can he play purely as an outside mid or better coming off the HBF?

You would have to give a fair bit for him, I would think; he's one of Carlton's few valuable players. I dare say Carlton wouldnt part with him for any less than a first round pick or equivalent. He'd be more value to us in the team for anything less.

 

[King of Ruin]

and not hoping for a magic bullet solution.

But this is how we've always done it. We don't usually show 'outsiders'. Take a look for yourself.


Which in return, results in our supports like so.

 

[thylacine60]