2018 pre season

[Lionsrbest2]

Bell is a C grader. If the younger player (Bailey, Starcevich, Matho, Keays, etc.) is any good they’ll overtake him. For now there’s no harm in creating some competition for spots and making them earn it. Similarly with Bewick, Frost, Bastinac and even guys like Mayes or Cameron.

Appreciate what u r saying, I will say this I am prepared to take the hit now, ( as Fagan as stated it is not about wins and losses and I totally agree) as my expectations r realistic regards the young ones ,but the upside is far far more important and valuable.Give them an opportunity,sure some may not excite in the first year or two but it is more about building towards something special. I certainly believe in the long game. The END Justifies the MEANS!!!! Some one here made negative comments about how cox takes on the game and gets caught. I say ,good on you Cox for taking on the gane and I would certainly be encouraging that and developing that side of his game as much as possible. He is young and with the right coaching will know when and where to take it on .It comes with experience .Bottom line, play the young ones. My apologies to players like Basti and Bell and a few others ,the nex gen lions is far to impotant to this great club.

 

[lioninthesand]

I remember watching Bell against us at eitihad circa 2014/15 and saying to the other Lions fans I was with ''id love him in our team'. He has such a presence at the contest, he wasn't an A-grader, but he just looked useful.

I was pretty happy we got him. since moving up, he, like so many others (draft and trade) he hasn't come on as you would hope.

The biggest thing for me is he also doesen't seem to want body contact, along with his bad kicking, which is a sign of confidence.

I hope he can throw his size around a bit this year, his preseason was promising, I'd love to see him be a regular over the next 5 years.

 

[jackess]

Appreciate what u r saying, I will say this I am prepared to take the hit now, ( as Fagan as stated it is not about wins and losses) as my expectations r realistic regards the young ones ,but the upside is far far more important.Give them an opportunity,sure some may not excite in the first year or two but it is more about building towards something special. I certainly believe in the long game. The END Justifies the MEANS!!!! Some one here made negative comments about how cox takes on the game and gets caught. I say ,good on you Cox for taking on the gane and I would certainly be encouraging that and developing that side of his game as much as possible. He is young and with the right coaching will know when and where to take it on .It comes with experience .

But if you’re talented it should be pretty easy to show you’re as good as Bell. If Matho or Keays don’t go past him this year then it really doesn’t look good for them and they’ve had their chances. Berry and McCluggage have probably earned their spot in the midfield and Starcevich and Bailey will probably need at least a season to get to the same level but if they perform in the 2s they’ll get their chance.

Playing Bell really won’t impede their development and we’ve shown we’re not afraid of dropping experienced players like Bewick, Frost and Bastinac.

Cox will struggle a bit with a logjam of back flankers but he offers something different and will still learnt a lot playing in the 2s.

 

[iBeng]

All Bell has to do is be that big body in the middle who gets clearances. And he CAN do that.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I thought Bell would be more of an asset than he has been based on some of his performances for the Blues including against us but perhaps this year will be his year. If he can learn to use his body he offers something Bewick and Bastinac never will. I think if anyone is in danger of being overtaken by Matho, Keays, Bailey, Starc etc it's Bastinac. Berry has already gone past Basti I suspect. I doubt Bewick will be on our list next year.

 

[iBeng]

Its odd because Bastinac was really showing something towards the end of last season but this pre-season hes well behind again. Did he come back unfit?

 

[jackess]

I thought Bell would be more of an asset than he has been based on some of his performances for the Blues including against us but perhaps this year will be his year. If he can learn to use his body he offers something Bewick and Bastinac never will. I think if anyone is in danger of being overtaken by Matho, Keays, Bailey, Starc etc it's Bastinac. Berry has already gone past Basti I suspect. I doubt Bewick will be on our list next year.

Bastinacs half forward role has been lost of Bundy, Cameron, Robbo and Rayner

 

[Nunez]

In Bells career best year he averaged 7 CP, 4 tackles and 2 clearances a game. Given his size and tank that is pretty average CP. He comes to the club and after poor form and no progression, he is told to work on his CP, kicking, tackling and clearances.

JLT 1: 11 CP, 6 CLR, 3 tackles
JLT 2: 13 CP, 9 CLR, 9 tackles

Obviously only 2 games, but that is a very, very good improvement. If he can maintain those figures and look at handballing off to outside mids/kicking for a stoppage inside 50 he will be a great role player for us in 2018. Long way to go, but he's a man possessed.

 

[spotthedog1]

It definitely is surprising that we're here. Agree with most - his kicking still isn't great, but I reckon Bell has displayed enough in the pre-season to warrant the call up.

Lionsrbest2 - I'm with you on the long term aim. Pumping games into the youngens is just something we've got to do, even if the older players are a bit better than them. But we have to be careful. If you're playing FIFA on the Playstation, you can trade out whoever you like and select whoever you like and it doesn't change anything. Ignoring all other aspects, I'd say our smartest moves would be to trade out Stef, Beams and Zorko - get first rounders for them and back to the draft. They aren't going to be playing next time we hit the finals... However, this is real life. Culture is important, and that would destroy ours. Getting the odd win on the board is also important. Look at Melbourne 7 or 8 years ago - the losing culture and playing kids who weren't ready actually destroyed several careers. Cox in particular, I'd say you have to play him in the twos, get his confidence up, and then give him 3 straight games in the ones. If he hasn't caught up, back to the twos, confidence up again. Someone like Cox I think could be destroyed by just sticking him in the ones and watching him suffer.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Zorko seems pretty resilient - good chance he is still playing when we reach finals / top 4

 

[briztoon]

Geez it's like looking in the mirror at a hyped up version of myself circa 2015.


I believe Fagan's mantra is; if you are good enough, you're old enough and you're in the team.

But players will no longer be gifted games. Everyone needs to be accountable. Have a poor stretch, and you're out as there are others who are hungry for first team spots.

 

[Lazza16]

Still trying to workout where our salary cap goes.......getting Bell from Carlton must have been quite a large sweetener.

 

[jjami15]

When he's ready Witherden as a mid / half forward would be a nightmare for opposition teams

Not too sure about this, he looked considerably slow on Sunday. Understand it was wet but I'm yet to be convinced and similar to Goddard his best football has been as that 'quarterback' type down back and think this is where he will prosper.

 

[Nunez]

Not too sure about this, he looked considerably slow on Sunday. Understand it was wet but I'm yet to be convinced and similar to Goddard his best football has been as that 'quarterback' type down back and think this is where he will prosper.

To be fair in those conditions even Charlie Cameron looked slow lol.

Definitely agree Witho as the quarterback is where he'll shine. There'd be a lot of value in structuring our repeat entries around he, Rich, Beams and Zorko zoning opposition kicks.

 

[Milux]

Has Skinner done his ACL again?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Has Skinner done his ACL again?

Uh, where are you hearing that? The Age posted a story 3 hours ago about him being primed?

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Has Skinner done his ACL again?

No

 

[Lionsrbest2]

Geez it's like looking in the mirror at a hyped up version of myself circa 2015.


I believe Fagan's mantra is; if you are good enough, you're old enough and you're in the team.

But players will no longer be gifted games. Everyone needs to be accountable. Have a poor stretch, and you're out as there are others who are hungry for first team spots.

Can’t beat competition can we. Thats what will deliver massive gains. Investment in youth , key to future success.

 

[Rocketman1984]

No

Think we should turn Skinner into a specialist full forward a) we need one b) it may reduce the risk of him doing the acl again which would be disastrous

 

[Lionsrbest2]

It definitely is surprising that we're here. Agree with most - his kicking still isn't great, but I reckon Bell has displayed enough in the pre-season to warrant the call up.

Lionsrbest2 - I'm with you on the long term aim. Pumping games into the youngens is just something we've got to do, even if the older players are a bit better than them. But we have to be careful. If you're playing FIFA on the Playstation, you can trade out whoever you like and select whoever you like and it doesn't change anything. Ignoring all other aspects, I'd say our smartest moves would be to trade out Stef, Beams and Zorko - get first rounders for them and back to the draft. They aren't going to be playing next time we hit the finals... However, this is real life. Culture is important, and that would destroy ours. Getting the odd win on the board is also important. Look at Melbourne 7 or 8 years ago - the losing culture and playing kids who weren't ready actually destroyed several careers. Cox in particular, I'd say you have to play him in the twos, get his confidence up, and then give him 3 straight games in the ones. If he hasn't caught up, back to the twos, confidence up again. Someone like Cox I think could be destroyed by just sticking him in the ones and watching him suffer.

Melbourne was a victim of their own poor recruiting.They became a demoralised bunch. I have to give kudos here to the lions recruiting staff at the drafts. I think we all have to admit they have delivered the goods at the draft. More times than not. Great record. They deserve special mention. You recruit players for example like Berry. What a magnificent attitude one word, infectious. The other players throughout the group feed on this It feeds optimism ,stenghtens their bond to the club and to each other.Alex Witherden ,Andrews,Rayner,the list goes on.it inspires the group. Melbourne went from one disaster to another with their recruiting until Roosy came along.

Out of the three players you mentioned,stef is the only one I would trade.Will we get a 1st rounder not sure. Depends on what the clubs r looking for. Sydney 1st rounder possibly,they r still in the hunt may pay overs.They apparently need a second ruckman. Zorks and Beams are good role models so no.I spoke about Bell’s age and his skill. Zorks and Beams while age will possibly mean they miss out ,on the feast which is very sad for they richly deserve it for their loyalty alone.Add to that their quintessential professionalism ,they are the exception to my rule on age. They are players that Bell unfortunately does not even come within a bulls roar of ,not even close.light years infact.
Cox represents everything I love about the club. I am a fan and not ashamed of it. When my dad said would like to meet Chris Johnson.Wow ,OMG. I will always remember that moment for the rest of my days.Cox reminds me of him. If he turns out half as good as Chrissy then the club has found a real gem.A raw talent ,he represents to me ,the clubs investment in the future. Slowly ,slowly with him ,an investment that could payoff in spades. I really hope he makes it and if continues and builds upon the good things he did last year, I belive he will make it and be a long term player.

After the ghf ,the club started in my opinion close to zero.Giants started with a very young list and played them. Regards playing the young ones,like I stated before the answer is an emphatic YES. We will reap the rewards hopefully in the not to distant future.

 

[DashinD]

There lots of talk about Round 1 and Tom Bell at the moment but I think Ryan Bastinac is an interesting question as well.

He finished the season well, and by the end felt like one of our most reliable and composed players, which you'd expect from a mature, experienced recruit. Particularly reliable in front of goals, up there with Beams and Zorko (although he sprays the odd one), maybe Walker. That shouldn't be too understated in our current evolution.

But...

Pretty underwhelming pre-season. No JLT 2, but named as an emergency, so must be close enough to match fit. Was pretty ineffectual and didn't play too many minutes in JLT 1 from memory? He seems to have flown under the radar this preseason and is in well under half of the teams in the Best 22 thread at a guess.

I had him as a lock for that 21-22 spot. But I'm not so sure now.

So what's the deal? Is he carrying a niggling injury? Is he too vanilla, not hard enough at the contest but not quick or silky enough either? Too much competition? His spot is under pressure for a couple of reason I think.

Firstly, with so much young talent to blood, we can only really afford a couple of those middle of the road experienced role players, the mature body to take the heat off the kids type. Lester has one spot sewn up I think. Tom Bell has had a good preseason and probably is a better fit if he can play the big bodied ball inside role. Mitch Robbo is kind of in the same basket but of course has another dimension which secures his spot. Hodge to a degree, although never to be called middle of the road!

There's also an abundance of talent for his position. Cameron, Rayner and Bundy are all probable best 22 that Basti wasn't competing with last year. Also Allison seems to be coming along. McCluggage obviously. Cedric Cox. Maybe Bailey.

My gut feel is still play him over a youngster at this stage, but I'm pretty unsure. I like him as a player (when he's in form) but maybe there's simply no space. I'm sure he'll get depth games at times this year, he'll have to be good. Is he out of contract at the end of the year?

Anyone got any insight or knowledge about where Basti is currently at and why? What are chances of Round 1 selection?

 

[Milux]

Uh, where are you hearing that? The Age posted a story 3 hours ago about him being primed?

Just heard a little whisper but thinking its false. Hoping it is.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Just heard a little whisper but thinking its false. Hoping it is.

Probably just the echo of it happening last year from the southern media.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Just heard a little whisper but thinking its false. Hoping it is.

He did an Instagram post last night that basically had a “nearly finished rehab, can’t wait to play with the boys” vibe. Safe to assume he’s fine.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Think we should turn Skinner into a specialist full forward a) we need one b) it may reduce the risk of him doing the acl again which would be disastrous

Would be ideal but realistically I not sure position on the ground will have an effect on his propensity to do it again.