Training 2020 Pre Season Training

[Thetrader15]

I think he's done. As some will know, I've been on the Knight wagon from the very start, having known him well through his High School years.
Unfortunately, he's not the same guy I knew. Back then he was a super driven and determined young man, who was hell bent on making it to the highest level. He was a really humble but determined guy.

Now I see him and he has changed. He is full of ego and superiority. He acts like a boof head footballer who thinks he is better than everyone else and that he has 'made it' (too much time with guys like Atkins I fear). Sadly for him, his belief in his position in the game is well above what it actually is. He's become one of the guys who thinks he is entitled to a position in the AFL team, rather than seeing he still has to earn it.

This injury will set him well back and it's going to be incredibly tough for him to get back in, especially once one or two guys grab their opportunity.

I fear that Riley is heading for a very large reality check come the end of the year.

Is this based off personal knowledge since he has been in the team, or are you an outsider looking in?

 

[Thetrader15]

Ross Lyon? I've previously said I don't think he's a good coach because he has failed to deliver a flag from multiple chances and years in the system

As for players, I said there were two justifications:

1) Part of a premiership team
2) Proven quality via external rankings eg. Brownlow, AFLCA and other awards

I'd also have a third justification which is they're young/developing which doesn't apply to Mackay

So either the player is proven quality, or is good enough to deliver success in a quality environment (the unlucky group like Buckley), or their quality has yet to be established at AFL level

Players shouldn't be defined as above average just because they were in a premiership team.

Plenty of examples

 

[Scorpus]

Players shouldn't be defined as above average just because they were in a premiership team.

Plenty of examples

Sure, but their selection in that premiership team would be justified because they won

Mackay wouldn't be an above average player if he won a flag but at least his selection would be justified

 

[Betts are off]

Godden or Mattner insinuated on 5AA they are likely to start in the SANFL and aren't in the running for a spot come rd 1.

I was hoping Sholl would be a sneaky chance, but it doesn't sound like it

I was hoping he would be in the running as well. But even with the extra muscle he is still very lightly built. The last thing we want to do is rush him into a situation where he gets physically dominated by the bigger bodies and he loses all his confidence.

I think there's a good chance he will play this year, but it would likely be much later in the year.

 

[MRB37]

I think he's done. As some will know, I've been on the Knight wagon from the very start, having known him well through his High School years.
Unfortunately, he's not the same guy I knew. Back then he was a super driven and determined young man, who was hell bent on making it to the highest level. He was a really humble but determined guy.

Now I see him and he has changed. He is full of ego and superiority. He acts like a boof head footballer who thinks he is better than everyone else and that he has 'made it' (too much time with guys like Atkins I fear). Sadly for him, his belief in his position in the game is well above what it actually is. He's become one of the guys who thinks he is entitled to a position in the AFL team, rather than seeing he still has to earn it.

This injury will set him well back and it's going to be incredibly tough for him to get back in, especially once one or two guys grab their opportunity.

I fear that Riley is heading for a very large reality check come the end of the year.

My sister in-law was less than impressed with him when she met him. In 2018 she took my (then) 8 year old nephew to the Crow store at West Lakes, there was a bunch of players having coffee in the cafe, so my nephew went over to say hello to them. Guys like CEY, Laird, Atkins, Tex, Crouches were all friendly, shook his hand, talked with him for a bit, Knight just put his headphones on and ignored him the entire time.

 

[Scorpus]

My sister in-law was less than impressed with him when she met him. In 2018 she took my (then) 8 year old nephew to the Crow store at West Lakes, there was a bunch of players having coffee in the cafe, so my nephew went over to say hello to them. Guys like CEY, Laird, Atkins, Tex, Crouches were all friendly, shook his hand, talked with him for a bit, Knight just put his headphones on and ignored him the entire time.

Knight's over the top goal celebrations for a player of his caliber (and who averages a less than a goal per game) has always rubbed me the wrong way.

Doesn't surprise me that he also acts this way off the field

 

[Betts are off]

I think he's done. As some will know, I've been on the Knight wagon from the very start, having known him well through his High School years.
Unfortunately, he's not the same guy I knew. Back then he was a super driven and determined young man, who was hell bent on making it to the highest level. He was a really humble but determined guy.

Now I see him and he has changed. He is full of ego and superiority. He acts like a boof head footballer who thinks he is better than everyone else and that he has 'made it' (too much time with guys like Atkins I fear). Sadly for him, his belief in his position in the game is well above what it actually is. He's become one of the guys who thinks he is entitled to a position in the AFL team, rather than seeing he still has to earn it.

This injury will set him well back and it's going to be incredibly tough for him to get back in, especially once one or two guys grab their opportunity.

I fear that Riley is heading for a very large reality check come the end of the year.

I mentioned this in the injury thread, but I think this injury could well be a blessing in disguise for Riley. If he just didn't make the team on merit (which is pretty much a certainty IMO), he would probably have real sour grapes and would take a long time to get over it mentally. Now with that pressure removed when he does come back he can focus on getting that hard running, tackling and pressuring back into his game through the SANFL without anger or resentment.

We all thought he added something valuable to our team around 18 months ago, but sadly I haven't seen it in such a long time that i'm not sure if he could still get it back. But if he was to get it back its going to have to be in the next 1-2 months, or I fear he will be playing for a lower league permanently in 2021 onwards

 

[marty36]

Players shouldn't be defined as above average just because they were in a premiership team.

Plenty of examples

Considering we have the worst player ever to win a premiership medal, in Aaron Keating, I think you are right

 

[Mego Red]

Define better?

Averaged 17.5 disposals and went past 20 in only 1 game

Atkins for all the shit he cops averaged 21.5 and went past 20 in 12 games

Playing different roles, but no one could argue Atkins wasn't one of our best - he finished 8th in the B&F.

 

[Apsaalooke]

So if we didn't shit the bed against Richmond in the 2017 Grand Final - would that change your opinion on Mackay?

And lets be real here he has played 12 years in the league - made finals in 6 of those years. Been a part of 1 grand final team and 1 prelim team that lost by less than a kick.

But once again - its just silly logic that Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo and Don Pyke all made the wrong decision in selecting Mackay because they didn't win a premiership and got fired (apart from Walsh).

Can't wait to see him in that round 1 team.

The common factor is Campo. I reckon he was given the choice of picking 3 players each week - he went with Mackay, Douglas and various combinations of van Berlo, post-ACL Otten, post-mobile Jacobs or wheelchair bound Thompson

 

[ad victoriam]

Yep he did play well in the SANFL, but tell me what the guys below have in common in the SANFL it has something to do with Ken Farmer, and cant see anyone capable of making it at AFL level

2011	Michael Wundke
2012	Justin Hardy
2013	Michael Wundke
2014	Michael Wundke
2015	Clint Alleway
2016	Brett Eddy
2017	Brett Eddy
2018 2019	Mark Evans Liam McBean

Ken Farmer medal is all about Kicking Goals, When I say one of the best Full Forwards if not the best I am talking about more than Goals, what about assisted Goals, bringing other players into the game, contested marking, body positioning, ground ball, there is a lot more to being one of the best Full Forwards than Kicking Goals.
Again I doubt you have spent much time watching him play,

 

[DJ75]

Is this based off personal knowledge since he has been in the team, or are you an outsider looking in?

Based off my personal knowledge having known Riley from before the Crows through to now.

 

[crows dude]

Considering we have the worst player ever to win a premiership medal, in Aaron Keating, I think you are right

We almost had Trent Ormond-Allen as well but he came down with Glandula Fever so could have had the two worst. It allowed us to not have to make any hard decisions. Mods out Injured. Pitto comes in to stand Lowe which allowed Cavo to take Hall and Jameson/Hart to take Heatley. Trent out sick and in comes James who was one of our best in the third qtr.

 

[Thetrader15]

Based off my personal knowledge having known Riley from before the Crows through to now.

My question was more about whether you have first hand knowledge of him now (not back at school), or just a vibe from his public perception

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think he's done. As some will know, I've been on the Knight wagon from the very start, having known him well through his High School years.
Unfortunately, he's not the same guy I knew. Back then he was a super driven and determined young man, who was hell bent on making it to the highest level. He was a really humble but determined guy.

Now I see him and he has changed. He is full of ego and superiority. He acts like a boof head footballer who thinks he is better than everyone else and that he has 'made it' (too much time with guys like Atkins I fear). Sadly for him, his belief in his position in the game is well above what it actually is. He's become one of the guys who thinks he is entitled to a position in the AFL team, rather than seeing he still has to earn it.

This injury will set him well back and it's going to be incredibly tough for him to get back in, especially once one or two guys grab their opportunity.

I fear that Riley is heading for a very large reality check come the end of the year.

This is pretty common unfortunately.

People get inside the bubble of professional sport and it changes them.

 

[Footypie32]

He's just about done now you'd think.

Yeah, this the last thing Riley needed. His career is on life-support now.

 

[Tex200]

My question was more about whether you have first hand knowledge of him now (not back at school), or just a vibe from his public perception

It’s pretty clear from the original post isn’t it?

 

[Thetrader15]

It’s pretty clear from the original post isn’t it?

That's what I thought.

So you knew him in school, but not seen him since. That's ok, I was just trying to determine if you could validate the perception raised on BF that he is drinking his own bathwater from personal experience. I've got my answer. Thanks.

 

[marty36]

Ken Farmer medal is all about Kicking Goals, When I say one of the best Full Forwards if not the best I am talking about more than Goals, what about assisted Goals, bringing other players into the game, contested marking, body positioning, ground ball, there is a lot more to being one of the best Full Forwards than Kicking Goals.
Again I doubt you have spent much time watching him play,

beg to differ I could almost guarantee you I say more SANFL games than you, but that's beside the point

Not one leading goal kicker in the SANFL is capable at the elite level, they don't just kick goals by the way, all have shown their ability at SANFL level but the jump across is too big.

If Frampton had a huge stumbling block infront of him it would be a bit different but Ports KPF's are middle of the road at best, or if he was a second or third year player developing then I would also agree, he is in his 6th year this year, he may play 100 AFL games if he is lucky but that will rate him as average at best

Far better running with Fog Tex(if he is still capable) and lynch as the three talls, he may play a cameo who knows, still thinking EH has shown more

 

[jackster83]

Knight's over the top goal celebrations for a player of his caliber (and who averages a less than a goal per game) has always rubbed me the wrong way.

Doesn't surprise me that he also acts this way off the field

The blonde hair-do is the final nail, going by the Drugs Are Bad Mackay? theory.

 

[Betts are off]

Yeah, this the last thing Riley needed. His career is on life-support now.

It lands squarely on his shoulders now. Some players take an axing and go back with relentless intent to get back into the main team. Others sulk away the season and blame everyone but themselves for their lack of form.

If he uses this time wisely there is no reason he can't be pushing for a spot later in the season. I think he could play a Mitch Robinson antagonist style mid/fwd in an AFL team really well. But first and foremost he needs to re-discover the ferocity that he was playing with in 2018!

 

[Footypie32]

It lands squarely on his shoulders now. Some players take an axing and go back with relentless intent to get back into the main team. Others sulk away the season and blame everyone but themselves for their lack of form.

If he uses this time wisely there is no reason he can't be pushing for a spot later in the season. I think he could play a Mitch Robinson antagonist style mid/fwd in an AFL team really well. But first and foremost he needs to re-discover the ferocity that he was playing with in 2018!

By the time he gets back McHenry will be playing this role. I have been a fan of Riley's for awhile but it's time for me to concede. He's cooked.

 

[ad victoriam]

beg to differ I could almost guarantee you I say more SANFL games than you, but that's beside the point

Not one leading goal kicker in the SANFL is capable at the elite level, they don't just kick goals by the way, all have shown their ability at SANFL level but the jump across is too big.

If Frampton had a huge stumbling block in front of him it would be a bit different but Ports KPF's are middle of the road at best, or if he was a second or third-year player developing then I would also agree, he is in his 6th year this year, he may play 100 AFL games if he is lucky but that will rate him as average at best

Far better running with Fog Tex(if he is still capable) and lynch as the three talls, he may play a cameo who knows, still thinking EH has shown more

Seeing games or watching games. big difference, Still don't think you have watched Frampton play much football,
Also Fog, Tex, Lynch and EH is leading type forward line,
With the only contested pack crashing marker being 193cm which has been a weakness in the Crows line up for a few years.

All I will say is wait and See you may be surprised.

 

[Big Dub]

Ross Lyon? I've previously said I don't think he's a good coach because he has failed to deliver a flag from multiple chances and years in the system

As for players, I said in this thread there were two justifications:

1) Part of a premiership team
2) Proven quality via external rankings eg. Brownlow, AFLCA and other awards

I'd also have a third justification which is they're young/developing which doesn't apply to Mackay

So either the player is proven to deliver success, or is good enough to deliver success in a quality environment (but is unlucky due to various factors), or their quality has yet to be established at AFL level

I'm glad the third justification has come in, because I was a bit afraid we were only going to be able to pick half a dozen players each week just using the first two . . .

For the record, I get why we picked him in the past and he wasn't terrible last year, but I'd prefer that we didn't this year. Even if we think we could make the 8, we're not winning a flag this year. We won't win a flag in the next 5 years if we don't get games into talented kids. Moving up a couple of spots in the next couple of drafts because of the inconsistency of kids won't hurt our future chances either.

 

[Mutineer]

Seeing games or watching games. big difference, Still don't think you have watched Frampton play much football,
Also Fog, Tex, Lynch and EH is leading type forward line,
With the only contested pack crashing marker being 193cm which has been a weakness in the Crows line up for a few years.

All I will say is wait and See you may be surprised.

Can you see the footy from the public bar at the Bay? Haven't been to a game there for about 30 years so the memory's a bit dim?