List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

[Lach72]

I think people are missing the point of the argument.

Our problem isn't the players we selected with our picks (we've drafted well and had very few busts with the picks we had), it is the minimal picks we have had available that have limited our ability to balance our list. We spend a lot of future (non 1st round) picks and then pay a premium buying back into the draft every year.

Thankfully we've managed to find gold later in the draft like Darcy, Ryan, Cox, Frederick, Treacy etc otherwise our list would have holes all over the place. Time to stop short changing the draft currency Walls and our recruiters have had to work with and instead trust them to find the extra pieces we need.

We really need a couple of middle of the road players to leave to get a couple of picks in the 20-50 range.
The other option is we really rake through our academy this year, and hope that Motlop (Should be ok for us past 20), Colbourne or Bartlett come good

 

[GingerDocker]

We really need a couple of middle of the road players to leave to get a couple of picks in the 20-50 range.
The other option is we really rake through our academy this year, and hope that Motlop (Should be ok for us past 20), Colbourne or Bartlett come good

I hate putting players up for trade, but would Tucker fall into that category?

 

[Lach72]

I hate putting players up for trade, but would Tucker fall into that category?

Yes

 

[Joao]

Rumour is Sean will be the next Carlton coach

Reckon he has as much chance as Sumich.

 

[Lach72]

At the time a guts call would have been to trade pick 5 to the Bulldogs for pick 9 + 18 from memory.
Naughton went at at 9 where Doerre and Twomey picked, and a number of players were available at that pick 18.
There was Balta, Ryan and Kelly besides Allen if I remember right.
We may have had to cough up a little more to the Bulldogs but they would have been into Cerra.

2019 draft was similarly bad.

Ok this is what West Coast did with GC which turned shit (2018 First round) into sticky pudding. (Scott Clayton should be investigated for blatant corruption IMO, but that's another story)

They traded 2018 first pick (which ended up at pick 18 FML) and 2017 pick 50 and received picks 21, 26, 37 and GC 2018 second round.
They turned that into Brander, Allen, Ryan, Ainsworth and Pertucelle.


Now guess what Gold Coast have this year:

If current standings hold GC currently hold:



So if you want to be bold this year flop 2022 first in front of Gold Coast. They'd have more confidence in us being low on the ladder than they would've with West Coast in 2017 who had finished 6th
Look for 19/23/42 and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd for 2022 back
We'd go into this years draft based of current standings:
10, 19, 23, 29 and 42

Johnson Van Rooyen, Williams Bazzo Motlop?

Van Rooyyen Williams Erasmus Sam Darcy Motlop?

 

[enoenoeno]

I think we need to load up the truck at one of these drafts, bank some good young talent, and back them as a group to support what we already have in place with Darcy + our mids (brayshaw, cerra, serong, young henry etc etc), and see if we're good enough...

 

[Lach72]

I think we need to load up the truck at one of these drafts, bank some good young talent, and back them as a group to support what we already have in place with Darcy + our mids (brayshaw, cerra, serong, young henry etc etc), and see if we're good enough...

Yeah I'm kinda at that stage.
Load up with picks now, with or without Cerra.
Especially if Cerra stays...we need to get a bunch of kids through the door and build a deep core, and the talls could be the key.

 

[wild side]

i reckon Darcy is more important to our future than Cerra.
Treacy too.
They are 23 and about to turn 19

 

[GingerDocker]

Are we that confident in this years local KP crop?

I presume they're going to be our target?

 

[Joao]

The idea of going to the draft is that it is ongoing. You go every year, and use your 3-5 picks + rookies. It's not about loading up any one year, especially when a lot of draftees would get limited opportunities if we had a better injury list.

It's a change in mindset from expecting to fix all your problems in one or two goes (like our trading strategy, shudder), to accepting that it takes time and becoming patient.

Trading forward only makes sense if there is a slider you rate much higher than where they have landed because the premium to move forward is significant most of the time.

If you add your first and second rounder every year, you are going to hit gold at least 3-4 times over 10 years and probably get some decent players another 4-5 times. Your list is constantly replenishing and you don't end up like Hawthorn (as long as the coach is willing to give younger players a chance when deserved).

 

[Lach72]

The idea of going to the draft is that it is ongoing. You go every year, and use your 3-5 picks + rookies. It's not about loading up any one year, especially when a lot of draftees would get limited opportunities if we had a better injury list.

It's a change in mindset from expecting to fix all your problems in one or two goes (like our trading strategy, shudder), to accepting that it takes time and becoming patient.

Trading forward only makes sense if there is a slider you rate much higher than where they have landed because the premium to move forward is significant most of the time.

Given the WA talls available plus the depth in the mids this year would you say a 2022 pick around 10-12 would be too higher premium to pay for 19, 25 and 42?
Based on points we come out well in front.
It would allow us to chop some dead wood out of the list too

 

[Joao]

Given the WA talls available plus the depth in the mids this year would you say a 2022 pick around 10-12 would be too higher premium to pay for 19, 25 and 42?
Based on points we come out well in front.
It would allow us to chop some dead wood out of the list too

There will always be dead wood.

Statistically, picks in the 40s are worth roughly the same as those in the 50s and 60s from memory. So lets just say 19+25 for 10. I'd only do it live because a particular player was there at 19 that we thought was comparable to the mid first round in 2022.

I wouldn't do it ahead of draft unless the top 20 was especially high quality compared to next year.

 

[Lach72]

There will always be dead wood.

Statistically, picks in the 40s are worth roughly the same as those in the 50s and 60s from memory. So lets just say 19+25 for 10. I'd only do it live because a particular player was there at 19 that we thought was comparable to the mid first round in 2022.

I wouldn't do it ahead of draft unless the top 20 was especially high quality compared to next year.

Yeah I dunno.
The possibility of getting our hands on at least two of the talls plus a good mid is very attractive

 

[Joao]

Yeah I dunno.
The possibility of getting our hands on at least two of the talls plus a good mid is very attractive

There are mids every year. There is no rush. Hopefully we keep players on the park and play well and in that scenario a 2nd round mid selection probably isn't playing in 2022 anyway. If we take a few KPPs this year, it opens us up to selected forwards and mids for the next few years too.

I fully expect us to take a KPF just because we basically have to (no Freo recruiters, Treacy doesn't solve all of our KPF issues). I'd be very surprised if we took two in the first 2 rounds (not disappointed though). I'm thinking one with our first and then a ruck/forward late or rookie. Maybe even our NGA Benning.

 

[wayToGo_]

I would be doing everything possible to get JVR and Williams on our list this year. The two in form KPFs in the draft pool. Both from WA. Both Fremantle supporters. Both have former teammates/friends already at the club. And both have complimentary skill sets/versatility to Treacy. It'd cost us our future 1st but I think the advantages of drafting an extra tall now would outweigh the loss of the likely pick we'd have in 2022.

A future forward line of

Henry ~ JVR ~ Sturt
Motlop ~ Treacy ~ Williams

looks great on paper to me. That's 6 natural forwards (5 for those who think Henry isn't). Then we can develop guys like Walker, Freddy and Western to bring speed on the outside from half back/wing/mid/half fwd. Add an extra medium forward on top and we'd look pretty set in the front half if all these guys worked out.

 

[Lach72]

There are mids every year. There is no rush. Hopefully we keep players on the park and play well and in that scenario a 2nd round mid selection probably isn't playing in 2022 anyway. If we take a few KPPs this year, it opens us up to selected forwards and mids for the next few years too.

I fully expect us to take a KPF just because we basically have to (no Freo recruiters, Treacy doesn't solve all of our KPF issues). I'd be very surprised if we took two in the first 2 rounds (not disappointed though).

Heh is Cerra stays and Valente keeps on keeping on we could go.
Van Rooyen, Erasmus, Williams, Bazzo Motlop
Talls at each end and two goal kicking half forwards/mids

All from WA

 

[Joao]

Heh is Cerra stays and Valente keeps on keeping on we could go.
Van Rooyen, Erasmus, Williams, Bazzo Motlop
Talls at each end and two goal kicking half forwards/mids

All from WA

If AP is makes it through the rest of the season I doubt we use a high pick (top 30) on a defender.

There will be good WA players next year too. Imagine trading out of 2022 and some ridiculous WA prospect making it to Eagles pick because we didn't have one.

 

[Lach72]

If AP is makes it through the rest of the season I doubt we use a high pick (top 30) on a defender.

There will be good WA players next year too. Imagine trading out of 2022 and some ridiculous WA prospect making it to Eagles pick because we didn't have one.

didnt bother West Coast who everyone is holding up as gold standard

 

[Lach72]

If AP is makes it through the rest of the season I doubt we use a high pick (top 30) on a defender.

There will be good WA players next year too. Imagine trading out of 2022 and some ridiculous WA prospect making it to Eagles pick because we didn't have one.

yeah that’s a big if and given the way Hamling is I’m not sure we can go in with just Cox and an injury plagued Logue.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Still think two high picks on a KPF would be overkill and unbalance the list the other way, especially with Treacy looking so promising. Would any other list have three KPFs under the age of 20 on their list? Would that have happened ever? It’s not like our midfield is all rainbows and sunshine with Mundy and Fyfe to replace. This is compounded if Cerra leaves.

One of Williams/JVR this year, one more in a couple of years. Would be ok if it was a rookie spot for Polson/Amiss as there is no risk and you can keep them on a rookie list forever and they are generally happy

 

[Lach72]

Nek minute Taberner is injured forever. Watchu gonna do

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Nek minute Taberner is injured forever. Watchu gonna do

A couple of 18yos don’t solve that problem though. We need a 24 + year old depth player for that

 

[freo99]

Is JVR any better than Jackson Callow, I’ve not seen him live.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Is JVR any better than Jackson Callow, I’ve not seen him live.

Now? Probably not, in 5 years, considerably

 

[Joao]

didnt bother West Coast who everyone is holding up as gold standard

I don't think their list management is as good as it could be.

yeah that’s a big if and given the way Hamling is I’m not sure we can go in with just Cox and an injury plagued Logue.

I'm not against picking up a key defender. I am against picking up yet another defender with a pick in the first two rounds.

In fact I'd argue we definitely need a key defender developing down at Peel. Rookie list works for me.

Is JVR any better than Jackson Callow, I’ve not seen him live.

Don't know for sure but being a consensus top 20 pick amongst the watchers on here would suggest so. I think he is supposed to be fairly quick. Callow is apparently an ordinary athlete.

Based on the write ups so far, I think Williams suits us more as JVR sounds very similar to Treacy.

Bring on the champs!