List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

[Lach72]

I'm not sure I'd like Clark...maybe as a direct swap for tucker?

 

[Wizard]

If all the news from Cal Twomey is right Jordan Clarke is a big chance to come home.
But if he does where does he play?
assuming Young & Chapman are back, and Darcy Tucker playing some good footy there he probably doesn’t slide into a HB roll, JL seems pretty keen to play Aish & Acers on the wings while giving Cerra a run there too. So is he a half forward? Can he play that spot , does he become a inside mid

JL is keen to play Aish and Acres on the wings until a better option comes to hand, if Jordan is that then he would take one of these roles.

 

[Taylor]

He played Bewley on the wing as soon as he could. I agree that if Clark was in the squad he would play wing for us.

 

[WilloTree]

Stolen from the Melbourne board coz I find this stuff really interesting. Apparently Melbourne’s rating of the 2019 draft crop and honestly, Melbourne for all their historical flaws have been good as anyone in identifying draft talent for a while (I would pay stupid money to see how draft boards the last 10 years)

You can just make out they had Serong at 4 and interestingly, Anderson at 5. Philip and Sharp at 39/40 also interesting

This is excellent!

Always good for a laugh this place

5 pages of hardcore footy nuffies telling you why it’s a bad idea focus on drafting WA lads

Followed by

5 pages of hardcore footy nuffies discussing which 5 of the best 10 WA kids to draft

Your heart knows what the best method is for us but your head has been warped by all those ‘ draft experts ‘ bashing your ears about who they THINK the ‘ best available ‘ players are

Lyon , Rosich and Loyd came out with all that ‘ it’s the AFL and we can get players from anywhere ‘ crap while somehow missing the fact that 10 out of our best 12 players in our granny / finals run sides were WA players

Bunch of ‘ big brains ‘ thinking they were smarter than they were

It’s the HEART that’s been missing these last few years


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

Of the three greatest ever Dockers (Pavlich, Mundy Fyfe) - only Fyfe is from WA.
Of the current best available midfielders (Serong, Cerra, Brayshaw, Fyfe, Aish) - only Fyfe is from WA
Of the top 25 players drafted in the first 25, only 3 were from WA (12%)

The 'must take local at all costs' is folly. It ignores the reality of the players available, history and WAs small talent pool compared to Vic.

but yeah, let's just draft from WA.

Would not say no to Roberts (even with the Syndesmosis injury), so long as we already had one of Williams/JVR already

I think our natural selection will be around Roberts. If Cerra leaves we could get Robers and one of Willimas/JVR as well. If Cerra stays, do we just grab the KPF and head to the bar?

Yes



I think we get a couple of mobile forward types
Don’t have a lot of faith that Sturt is going to go the distance unfortunately so need to blood for the future .
I reckon we have plenty of mid field options even if it takes a bit of creativity.
Backline ( assuming no key players want to leave and Pearce stays on the paddock) seems to have enough depth . Although if Pearce breaks down again between now and the PSD
Would probably be wise to look at a big kid Defender or trade in if necessary.

If Cerra leaves we need to re-invest in the midfield. Getting Clarke from Cats becomes a no-brainer, but also through the draft.

It's the engine room - it needs good parts.

 

[Lach72]

He played Bewley on the wing as soon as he could. I agree that if Clark was in the squad he would play wing for us.

Freddy and Clark on the wings is something to think about I guess...although I think Acres would be preferred

 

[Taylor]

Freddy and Clark on the wings is something to think about I guess...although I think Acres would be preferred

Acres is a body that will throw itself at any role to stay in the side at the moment, to his credit - but it probably hurts him long term.

I thick Tucker and our future 2nd for Clark (my guess) would mean Aish is a defender for the rest of his career for the reason you mentioned.

 

[rgauci]

Acres is a body that will throw itself at any role to stay in the side at the moment, to his credit - but it probably hurts him long term.

I thick Tucker and our future 2nd for Clark (my guess) would mean Aish is a defender for the rest of his career for the reason you mentioned.

huh? I wouldn’t swap Tucker for Clark, that’s nuts.

 

[Lach72]

huh? I wouldn’t swap Tucker for Clark, that’s nuts.

Tucker aint that great.

Neither is Clark mind and I'm not sure I want him...I definitely don't want to give picks for him

 

[Lach72]

Acres is a body that will throw itself at any role to stay in the side at the moment, to his credit - but it probably hurts him long term.

I thick Tucker and our future 2nd for Clark (my guess) would mean Aish is a defender for the rest of his career for the reason you mentioned.

I'm not giving any future second for Clark

 

[Square Peg]

Tucker and our future 2nd for Clark (my guess)

That's vomit

 

[Dayts]

He played Bewley on the wing as soon as he could. I agree that if Clark was in the squad he would play wing for us.

think this was more because he had to push Aish to HB with no Wilson , Hughes and Young , Chapman ?

 

[Swiggy]

I'm not sure I'd like Clark...maybe as a direct swap for tucker?

Need to keep tucker.

Clark for a 2nd rounder I’d be happy with.
Be perfect for a wing

 

[Wizard]

Tucker aint that great.

Neither is Clark mind and I'm not sure I want him...I definitely don't want to give picks for him

My force of injuries i think Tucker is played out of position, hes a terrific two way running mid and i think thats where he should be when we have a full cavalry to pick from.

 

[wayToGo_]

Of the three greatest ever Dockers (Pavlich, Mundy Fyfe) - only Fyfe is from WA.
Of the current best available midfielders (Serong, Cerra, Brayshaw, Fyfe, Aish) - only Fyfe is from WA
Of the top 25 players drafted in the first 25, only 3 were from WA (12%)

The 'must take local at all costs' is folly. It ignores the reality of the players available, history and WAs small talent pool compared to Vic.

but yeah, let's just draft from WA.

Of the five greatest ever Dockers (Pavlich, Fyfe, Mundy, Sandi, McPharlin) three (60%) are from WA.
Of the current playing midfielders, our best midfielder is from WA and is our only midfielder from WA. 100% of our WA midfielders are the best of our midfielders.
Of the best KPFs in the past decade, the top two are both from WA (Franklin and Kennedy).

It is very easy to manipulate data to justify your pov.

Nobody is suggesting take local at all costs, just that there is plenty of evidence that WA players (especially KPPs) are often underrated (eg Naughton, Allen etc valued higher than they ended up being drafted), that the go home factor goes away, and therefore so does the premium price to keep them, and so on. The weighting towards WA players needs to be higher than it has been imo - that's it. And given we went WA last draft I'd say the list management team agrees.

 

[Alfonz]

After his first year Clark would have been worth a late 1st rounder, but his value has declined significantly over the last 2 years and is only going down each week. If we're going to give Crozier away for pick 40, then that's the sort of deal we should be looking at for Clark. Early 3rd or late 2nd. I'd expect Geelong would ask for Darcy (completely ridiculous) or our 1st rounder (slightly less ridiculous but still absurd), and a stalemate ensues and it will be hard to work out a deal.

 

[Paracleet]

Nobody is suggesting take local at all costs, just that there is plenty of evidence that WA players (especially KPPs) are often underrated (eg Naughton, Allen etc valued higher than they ended up being drafted), that the go home factor goes away, and therefore so does the premium price to keep them, and so on. The weighting towards WA players needs to be higher than it has been imo - that's it. And given we went WA last draft I'd say the list management team agrees.

Allen and Naughton have thus far combined for 138 goals in 115 games at a princely 1.2 gpg. They may become great forwards, but aren’t yet and thus are not evidence that WA key forwards are undervalued. I would content that there is 0 evidence WA payers in any position are undervalued relative to other parts of the country. If people think they are they should be able to produce metrics. Pick two last year was a WA key forward. There are two WA key forwards currently playing AFL who are in the top 30 ever goal kickers. One was pick 4 and the other was pick 5.
If we want to keep on the anecdotal stuff in this years Coleman medal race there are currently only 7 of top 50 are from WA. At 15% that is under-representation comparted to our share of the draft pool. One of those is a midfielder and also includes Mitch Georgiades (in 34th) who at 191 is hard to classify as a key forward.

I reckon if we go back and comb through the top 20 of the Coleman for the last 15 or 20 years I’m prepared to bet this year will be the first season a WA player other than Jack Darling makes the list who wasn't originally a top 5 pick.


Edit: I did it and the only one is the Q-stick. He snuck in around 15th in 2006 and 2007. (Hogan finished 10th in 2017 but was pick 2 in a mini draft and its hard to imagine he wouldn’t have gone 1 the draft the year after had it not occurred).

Actually it was kind of depressing reading. If anything WA has underperformed in terms of delivering key forwards the produce consistently.

 

[wayToGo_]

Allen and Naughton have thus far combined for 138 goals in 115 games at a princely 1.2 gpg. They may become great forwards, but aren’t yet and thus are not evidence that WA key forwards are undervalued. I would content that there is 0 evidence WA payers in any position are undervalued relative to other parts of the country. If people think they are they should be able to produce metrics. Pick two last year was a WA key forward. There are two WA key forwards currently playing AFL who are in the top 30 ever goal kickers. One was pick 4 and the other was pick 5.
If we want to keep on the anecdotal stuff in this years Coleman medal race there are currently only 7 of top 50 are from WA. At 15% that is under-representation comparted to our share of the draft pool. One of those is a midfielder and also includes Mitch Georgiades (in 34th) who at 191 is hard to classify as a key forward.

I reckon if we go back and comb through the top 20 of the Coleman for the last 15 or 20 years I’m prepared to bet this year will be the first season a WA player other than Jack Darling makes the list who wasn't originally a top 5 pick.


Edit: I did it and the only one is the Q-stick. He snuck in around 15th in 2006 and 2007. (Hogan finished 10th in 2017 but was pick 2 in a mini draft and its hard to imagine he wouldn’t have gone 1 the draft the year after had it not occurred).

Actually it was kind of depressing reading. If anything WA has underperformed in terms of delivering key forwards the produce consistently.

Yep like I said. You can spin data to make any point you want. But good job spending a whole lot of time saying the same thing I did

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

After his first year Clark would have been worth a late 1st rounder, but his value has declined significantly over the last 2 years and is only going down each week. If we're going to give Crozier away for pick 40, then that's the sort of deal we should be looking at for Clark. Early 3rd or late 2nd. I'd expect Geelong would ask for Darcy (completely ridiculous) or our 1st rounder (slightly less ridiculous but still absurd), and a stalemate ensues and it will be hard to work out a deal.

I think it would cost our 2nd at a minimum since he's contracted and a bit harder to pry.

Meek could make it interesting if he chooses to leave

Meek, Freo 2nd, Future 3rd -> Clark, Geelong 2nd

 

[tonygeeks]

Of the five greatest ever Dockers (Pavlich, Fyfe, Mundy, Sandi, McPharlin) three (60%) are from WA.
Of the current playing midfielders, our best midfielder is from WA and is our only midfielder from WA. 100% of our WA midfielders are the best of our midfielders.
Of the best KPFs in the past decade, the top two are both from WA (Franklin and Kennedy).

It is very easy to manipulate data to justify your pov.

Nobody is suggesting take local at all costs, just that there is plenty of evidence that WA players (especially KPPs) are often underrated (eg Naughton, Allen etc valued higher than they ended up being drafted), that the go home factor goes away, and therefore so does the premium price to keep them, and so on. The weighting towards WA players needs to be higher than it has been imo - that's it. And given we went WA last draft I'd say the list management team agrees.

Cheers

What he said Willo


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

 

[Paracleet]

Yep like I said. You can spin data to make any point you want. But good job spending a whole lot of time saying the same thing I did

I didn't make the point you wanted. I specifically demonstrated it was wrong.

 

[wayToGo_]

I didn't make the point you wanted. I specifically demonstrated it was wrong.

No you crapped on about KPFs and the Coleman for some reason even though my post said nothing about them. But good work.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

I know that Brayshaw grew up in Melbourne, but he has very strong family connections to WA. He's not local in the sense that he came up from WAFL colts and his Mum and Dad live in, say, Spearwood. But he is more "local" than a Neale, Cerra, Ryan, etc who probably never thought of WA until we called out their name.

AFAIK, it's the same in reverse for Naughton.

And Brayshaw is probably more "local" than, say, SPS who, AFAIK, even though he came from the Kimberly and then played Colts at Claremont didn't really have strong connections with Perth.

Jordan Clarke is "local" but grew up down here in Albany and only went to boarding school in Perth in yr 11/12. He has now spent more time living in Geelong than he did living in Perth.

TL;DR being local is more than a player's postcode in their draft year.

 

[salim malik]

Allen and Naughton have thus far combined for 138 goals in 115 games at a princely 1.2 gpg. They may become great forwards, but aren’t yet and thus are not evidence that WA key forwards are undervalued. I would content that there is 0 evidence WA payers in any position are undervalued relative to other parts of the country. If people think they are they should be able to produce metrics. Pick two last year was a WA key forward. There are two WA key forwards currently playing AFL who are in the top 30 ever goal kickers. One was pick 4 and the other was pick 5.
If we want to keep on the anecdotal stuff in this years Coleman medal race there are currently only 7 of top 50 are from WA. At 15% that is under-representation comparted to our share of the draft pool. One of those is a midfielder and also includes Mitch Georgiades (in 34th) who at 191 is hard to classify as a key forward.

I reckon if we go back and comb through the top 20 of the Coleman for the last 15 or 20 years I’m prepared to bet this year will be the first season a WA player other than Jack Darling makes the list who wasn't originally a top 5 pick.


Edit: I did it and the only one is the Q-stick. He snuck in around 15th in 2006 and 2007. (Hogan finished 10th in 2017 but was pick 2 in a mini draft and its hard to imagine he wouldn’t have gone 1 the draft the year after had it not occurred).

Actually it was kind of depressing reading. If anything WA has underperformed in terms of delivering key forwards the produce consistently.

Glendinning, Sumich,Cummings, Kennedy, Darling , Mann, Beasley.
A few of the top of my head

 

[Ysaye]

Glendinning, Sumich,Cummings, Kennedy, Darling , Mann, Beasley.
A few of the top of my head

Kennedy doesn't count as he was pick 4, the rest other than Darling (who was excluded by Paracleet) were more than 20 years ago.

 

[GingerDocker]

I love watching both Naughton and Allen play as much as anyone, but some are getting a little ahead of themselves here.

Until Naughton learns how to kick accurately, the pressure on him will only continue to mount. It's hard to seem him kicking 50 goals in a season with his radar the way it currently is.

Allen is yet to have a number one defender, or even a number two, stand next to him. Let's see how he goes when there is no Kennedy to take the best defender on the park.