List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

[Taylor]

Role is also a big factor. That player sitting 25m up from the ball who always gets it kicked over his head and spends most of the game making sure his half back/defensive sweeping wing doesn't run past the stoppage and break the lines.

Meanwhile at the exact opposite of the ground a player gets to run across the ground into space to take uncontested marks and then kick long to a contest down the line fifteen times a game.

 

[mightymouse75]

Not behind a paywall. Also, not really that informative.

Bolton to knock back $800k deals to stay a Tiger

As speculation continues to swirl about where the kid from Katanning will play in 2022 ramps up, Herald Sun journalist Jon Ralph says Shai Bolton wants to stay a Tiger.

thewest.com.au

I have no faith Fremantle can handle bolten moving back to Perth with questionable family & friends & a spiteful west coast media.
We have been very poor in this area & there is not 1 reason why this has changed for Bolton to excel at freo.

 

[Taylor]

Of Course Shai wants to stay a Tiger, he just wants to be paid the most he can be and that might mean he signs a longer term deal with them instead.

 

[Dockeroo]

No to Bolton. Would literally need to trade out of the entire 2020 draft to get him across. Behind the 8 ball straight away then. If he doesn’t win 2 or 3 AA or B&F he’s a failure, and if he does, well that’s expected and break even. The talk of family distractions is also too risky too.
Just keep drafting.

 

[Taylor]

Anyone interested in trading our first to Collingwood for their first next season and some more picks later this year?

 

[Wilksyy]

Anyone interested in trading our first to Collingwood for their first next season and some more picks later this year?

Would definitely do that. Pretty much a guaranteed a top 5 pick.

 

[Dockeroo]

Would definitely do that. Pretty much a guaranteed a top 5 pick.

Our own pick might be top 7 or so this year looking at the way we played on Sunday

 

[Docker82]

Giro, Crowden, Banfield, Hill, Duman and Bewley to be delisted. They are all replaceable depth.

Watson, Colyer and Conca were all 50/50 but have had really promising seasons so far. All three deserve an extension.

Disagree with making these calls before the middle of the season tbh.

Conca is the only one certain to be on the list next year. Hill looks very close to gone, as does Banfield.

Everyone else above has plenty of time to prove they’re worth the last few spots on the list or equally prove they are not.

 

[sherrif]

It is supposed to be about finding mr fix it replacements but I think we get better value picking teenagers who would be picked in the national draft anyway.

Best talls under 20

I'd go the opposite. I'd rather add a player who looks like they can already play already who's 21-24. Just like Luke Ryan or Tim Kelly or LIam Ryan. The chances of getting a tall that will last are very slim. We need more good kicks on our list so getting one or two of the better kicks at state league level would be my priority. Whoever is delivering the ball well into the forward fifty at state league level would be my pick provided they are also good athletically. I'd also look at a mid sized forward type player whos a goal kicker who's quick on the lead and around 185cm.

Considering they might have three picks I wouldn't mind getting Nathan Freeman. There is a bit of a similarity with what Nathan Freeman is doing in the VFL to how Sam Menegola dominated wafl before he got redrafted. Freeman is averaging 39 disposals and would be a better option on a wing than Acres in my view. He's still quick with good skills. He plays onball currently but he could also play on the wing.

 

[sherrif]

Disagree with making these calls before the middle of the season tbh.

Conca is the only one certain to be on the list next year. Hill looks very close to gone, as does Banfield.

Everyone else above has plenty of time to prove they’re worth the last few spots on the list or equally prove they are not.

/QUOTE]
Conca gets an extension by playing a certain number of games. That's in his contract when he signed on. Crowden would have to do a lot to get a new contract now.

There are some things we can do to create main list spaces and add players to the rookie list to give us more picks in the draft. Hughes and Watson have to be upgraded or they have to go into the draft Valente is also contracted and he might be delisted and redrafted to the rookie list as he has a contract like we have done in the past. Blakely if possible could get traded as he has a contract too.He could even be delisted and then we draft him back on the rookie draft to create a space. He's contracted so anyone who decided to pick him would be taking the contract off our books so I'd do that.

 

[Taylor]

Would definitely do that. Pretty much a guaranteed a top 5 pick.

I think we would be able to trade Collingwood's 2022 first to get back into the first round too during the draft itself, effectively buying the next pick in the draft to select the player we wanted with the benefit of extra value later in the draft.

 

[Docker82]

/QUOTE]
Conca gets an extension by playing a certain number of games. That's in his contract when he signed on. Crowden would have to do a lot to get a new contract now.

There are some things we can do to create main list spaces and add players to the rookie list to give us more picks in the draft. Hughes and Watson have to be upgraded or they have to go into the draft Valente is also contracted and he might be delisted and redrafted to the rookie list as he has a contract like we have done in the past. Blakely if possible could get traded as he has a contract too.He could even be delisted and then we draft him back on the rookie draft to create a space. He's contracted so anyone who decided to pick him would be taking the contract off our books so I'd do that.

Yes that’s been common knowledge on Conca since we signed him. Realistically his performance means it would’ve been close to a certainty to play on anyway.

Crowden is playing a lot of games for a guy with ‘a lot to do’ to get a new contract tbh. There’s not a huge amount of injuries up froward either.

I don’t see the urgency to upgrade Watson. He’s not best 22 or even close at this stage. At this stage he played alright last week but hasn’t really shown that much overall. If we delisted him he’d still be there at our last rookie pick imo. Hughes wouldn’t last until the end of the DFA period if we tried the same for him.

Whilst AFL rules don’t stipulate we have to upgrade I wouldn’t be surprised if clubs come for Schultz and Treacy, which could force us to upgrade them anyway.

Blakely is the obvious one to delist and re-rookie. Seems out of favour but isn’t the worst back up to have just in case. Some of the guys I’ve mentioned as 50/50 could be downgraded to the rookie list if we decide to keep them. Given free agency rules I’d say Travis Colyer is a good candidate tbh. No one is coming for 30+year old Colyer as a free agent ever.

Also I wouldn’t be ruling out Taylin Duman. He’ll have an opportunity over at least the next month to show he belongs at AFL level, which he’s done in the past. He started the season with an injury which has put him behind one or two he wouldn’t normally be behind. Unless he gets injured he’ll climb back up the pecking order reasonably quickly imo.

 

[eastfreo75]

I don't see the point in drafting blokes that are, at best, as good as our depth players. You can make an argument for a tall just for competition in the forwardline or to cover defense injuries.

I don't see how you justify a mid or flanker when we have talented ones that don't get games.

The next pick might be Luke Ryan or Michael Barlow but most likely a borderline player.

The mid season draft is a free hit.

 

[Ge3ks]

Anyone interested in trading our first to Collingwood for their first next season and some more picks later this year?

Why would Collingwood do this?

 

[Taylor]

Why would Collingwood do this?

The rules as they stand would require them to have their matching points taken from next season, effectively they are trading us pick #4 let's say but in effect what they are paying is pick #13 after the deficit is applied.

They will still have a deficit but they might have an influence in this year's draft after that.

They could also make that trade after matching on their father son to get back into the draft again this season, extracting the value of that pick before deficit devalues it

 

[wayToGo_]

The chances of getting a tall that will last are very slim.

The chances of getting any player in the MSD that will last is very slim. It doesn't matter whether they are tall or short.

There are just 4 remaining on lists of the 13 drafted in the 2019 MSD. None of the 4 have elite skills. 1 of them is tall though.

Hey if it gets to our pick and there is some elite skilled mature ager that has somehow flown under the radar of the clubs picking before us then I'm all for it. Does anyone realistically expect that to happen though?

Like I said before, just take a chance on a speculative tall. I've seen a lot of talls become better in time. I'm not sure I've seen any players with average skills suddenly become elite.

 

[Ge3ks]

Watching VFL Werribee vs Boxhill on Kayo now. Wylie Buzza is rucking and playing forward. Big unit. On this years form he is tipped to get another gig in the mid season draft. Worth considering since we need a ruck/forward.

Interesting side note; Michael Barlow is the Werribee coach.

Former Dockers favourite lands VFL coaching gig

Former Fremantle ball magnet Michael Barlow has been appointed senior coach of Werribee in the new VFL and east coast second-tier competition.

thewest.com.au

 

[FreoRicci]

Would push as much as possible to talk to the non favoured forwards such as Weideman and Schache. We’re miles behind in the tall forward department.

 

[Docker82]

Would push as much as possible to talk to the non favoured forwards such as Weideman and Schache. We’re miles behind in the tall forward department.

Yea 100%. The names Wylie Buzza and Tyler Keitel have been brought up on this thread today ffs.

As long as they’re worth close to nothing in a trade and we don’t change our draft strategy because of it, I wouldn’t be against it.

The expected outcome from Weideman or Schache is surely higher than state league spuds or 18/19 year olds.

 

[Dockeroo]

Yea 100%. The names Wylie Buzza and Tyler Keitel have been brought up on this thread today ffs.

As long as they’re worth close to nothing in a trade and we don’t change our draft strategy because of it, I wouldn’t be against it.

The expected outcome from Weideman or Schache is surely higher than state league spuds or 18/19 year olds.

Wouldn’t be surprised if Schache never plays an AFL game again. He’s as soft as butter and exactly what we don’t need.
Weideman - yeah fine as long as it doesn’t involve our first or second round picks

 

[Docker82]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Schache never plays an AFL game again. He’s as soft as butter and exactly what we don’t need.
Weideman - yeah fine as long as it doesn’t involve our first or second round picks

Agree Schache isn’t much good. From what I’ve seen of Schache and Buzza/Keitel though I’m still confident that Schache would be better at AFL level though.

The bonus of Schache is that the Bulldogs will actively be looking to move him. He’s contracted for next season so if you took his contract (which wouldn’t be crazy money) you’d most likely be trading a future fourth rounder.

Weideman would cost us a second rounder minimum I reckon. He’s a half decent footballer imo, he’s just got McDonald, Brown and Jackson ahead of him. Not sure about Weideman’s contract status but I reckon Melbourne would prefer to keep him - McDonald and Brown aren’t young anymore.

 

[sdfc]

Agree Schache isn’t much good. From what I’ve seen of Schache and Buzza/Keitel though I’m still confident that Schache would be better at AFL level though.

The bonus of Schache is that the Bulldogs will actively be looking to move him. He’s contracted for next season so if you took his contract (which wouldn’t be crazy money) you’d most likely be trading a future fourth rounder.

Weideman would cost us a second rounder minimum I reckon. He’s a half decent footballer imo, he’s just got McDonald, Brown and Jackson ahead of him. Not sure about Weideman’s contract status but I reckon Melbourne would prefer to keep him - McDonald and Brown aren’t young anymore.

A mummy's boy like Schache is the last thing we need.

 

[Joao]

The next pick might be Luke Ryan or Michael Barlow but most likely a borderline player.

The mid season draft is a free hit.

What a disingenuous post. Why not name the 20 potatoes nobody has ever heard of that are much more likely to be picked?

It's a free hit and what we don't need is VFL/WAFL/SANFL journeymen. Banners is a monster at WAFL level and a whipping boy on here.

If we draft anyone, it has to be somebody young with some upside.

 

[wayToGo_]

19-year-old key forward Jack Buller had a breakout game with 15 disposals, six marks, five goals and four behinds for Claremont in their 52-point win against West Perth. Buller was the only player on the field with more than two goals and has been one of the off-season's big improvers.

And then had a 10 disposal, 3 mark, 0 goal, 0 behinds day today against Subiaco Struggled against South Freo earlier in the year as well.

 

[dropbear101]

Alright not to get to technical but essentially the afl operates in a monopsony labour market. Its kind of like a monopoly but, the firms in question operate like a monopoly in regards to their employees wages. The typical example is hospitals.

"Monopsony employer can use their buying power to pay a wage lower than the value of the marginal revenue product of workers employed.
Monopsony power can therefore lead to exploitation of employed workers." (copied from some article, 2021) It should be noted this applies to an individual club and the afl as a whole.

afl players on average are underpaid compared to what they are actually worth. (its how the monpsony labour market differs from the free market) Its why brad hill can enter the free market and get 800,000 but players who stay get chips.

On average by entering into the market for players we consistently overpay in comparison to our opposition (but do pay the market rate for that player). the opposition then extorts you; because you apparently rate a player so highly. which is what we did with brad hill and weller. it was done to us by hogan and lobb.

the value of a (mostly finished) economics degree guys (the diagram below illustrates the above)