Discussion 2022 General AFL Discussion

[SaintsSeptember]

Well said.

Maybe Hill wasn't subject to this abuse and might not have been aware of everything that did occur to his teammates. But that doesn't lesson other people's experience at Hawthorn during that time.

I don't think anyone suggested it did.

My comment was that it may not have been racially motivated.

 

[Sully111]

No way Clarko survives this.

Quite possibly Fagan too but we'll see.

I'm all for waiting to hear the other side of the story... always... but in 2022, Clarkson isn't coming back from this.

Just the sheer misogyny involved is mind boggling.

 

[Max the great]

At this point the accusations /allegations are pretty agregious. However, only one side has said their piece, with not a lot of context. I just struggle to be Beilieve that anyone/Clarko would tell a player to terminate a baby in a way the article insinuated.

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

 

[phantom13]

At this point the accusations /allegations are pretty agregious. However, only one side has said their piece, with not a lot of context. I just struggle to be Beilieve that anyone/Clarko would tell a player to terminate a baby in a way the article insinuated.

Context… nah, what context can you possibly give to this that makes any part of it okay (in addition they gave plenty of context).

If you want to go the “I’m not sure I believe it” defense that’s fine. I won’t but you can but the “context” defense isn’t it.

 

[phantom13]

I don't think anyone suggested it did.

My comment was that it may not have been racially motivated.

Did you mention the Brad hill stuff?

If you did you’re drawing a line that Brad still likes clarko so it can’t be racist.

Also the players interviewed made it very clearly how this is racially and culturally insensitive.

There’s a reason it was an investigation into racism in the club and there’s a reason those three incidents were noted with indigenous players. All of that is lessening the experience, maybe not deliberately.

 

[Sun Ra]

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

If it's not true, it's a highly sophisticated and carefully planned scam / conspiracy - I don't see that.

 

[phantom13]

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Hawthorn do (see Rioli) and during their tenure so this isn’t really true.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Did you mention the Brad hill stuff?

If you did you’re drawing a line that Brad still likes clarko so it can’t be racist.

Also the players interviewed made it very clearly how this is racially and culturally insensitive.

There’s a reason it was an investigation into racism in the club and there’s a reason those three incidents were noted with indigenous players. All of that is lessening the experience, maybe not deliberately.

" May not" , is different to "Can't".

 

[Minga]

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

They have not been condemned yet, no one is saying they’re automatically guilty.

Why is it that some people always side with the alleged oppressor straight away? You’re allowed to just sit back and watch it unfold if you’re sceptical but don’t undermine the seriousness and credibility of the allegations.

You probably know nothing about their true history, and I’ll take the word of multiple First Nations allegations and a very credible journalist over Alistair Clarkson and Chris Fagen, and whoever else is involved. Why? Because this
is a classic patterning of systemic racism and oppression, and it is far more likely there there is truth in this then fiction.

Again, they remain allegations, and the case is well and truly open. But with what has been alleged as we speak, it’s concerning that some people immediately side with the the alleged perpetrators.

This is going to be an interesting/difficult period of time, but I’m glad that then majority of people have thus far recognised the seriousness of this issue, and the systemic issues it pertains to.

TLDR: don’t immediately side with the alleged perpetrators, no one’s saying they’re automatically guilty but at this point in time take the allegations seriously rather then undermining them…

 

[George]

Not sure John knows what woke means

View attachment 1514096

The boomers love social media don't they. The never offended, always offended types. You just gotta love 'em

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

The boomers love social media don't they. The never offended, always offended types. You just gotta love 'em

Facebook is a cesspool now. No one new is joining up. Just a bunch of old blokes losing their grip on reality. Comments sections with IQs in the single digits

 

[Diehard Saint]

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

What would possibly be the reason that not 1, but 3 players would make up something like this?
It's also documented that Cyril wasn't happy at the club, hence his early retirement.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Fagan has taken a leave of absence.

Club Statement - Chris Fagan

The official AFL website of the Brisbane Lions Football Club

www.lions.com.au

 

[Lightsxo]

Honestly I couldn’t finish the article.

I hope it’s bullshit but I just can’t imagine anyone actually lying about this and for the ABC to print this with names means it’s been verified and gone by their legal team.

Genuinely this is the worst thing footy related I’ve read. Worse than the Essendon stuff and the Adelaide camp.

Just inhumane treatment of kids who are excited to play footy and putting their trust in people.

****ing hell I can’t believe it.

 

[Sun Ra]

Fagan has stood down.

 

[Ads734]

Context… nah, what context can you possibly give to this that makes any part of it okay (in addition they gave plenty of context).

If you want to go the “I’m not sure I believe it” defense that’s fine. I won’t but you can but the “context” defense isn’t it.

Well for all we know the way in which these things were brought up could be misinterpreted. Ie player comes in says xyz and my partner is pregnant. Coaches may say it may be wise to think about an abortion, for you career. Player may take it the wrong way and think coach actually is saying I must get an abortion. I just struggle to see a situation where a coach would say kill your baby.

 

[Veer Right]

Fagan has taken a leave of absence.

Club Statement - Chris Fagan

The official AFL website of the Brisbane Lions Football Club

www.lions.com.au

Stood down pending the investigation would be more accurate.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Yeah, I don't think so.

Doesn't seem like the kind of thing you would lie about given the repercussions and seriousness of the allegations.

Its not just one person making these allegations either it's multiple.

And no amount of context makes this ok.

 

[crasha301]

I've got a friend who got his girlfriend pregnant when he was at university.

He was concerned about his future and not being able to raise a child at the point of time in his life.

My advice to him was to talk to his girlfriend about an abortion.

They did end up having one and they did break up a couple years later for unrelated reasons.

Can only hope this situation at Hawthorn was something to this effect and has just been blown out of proportion by mainstream media.



On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What would possibly be the reason that not 1, but 3 players would make up something like this?
It's also documented that Cyril wasn't happy at the club, hence his early retirement.

It was surely Cyril's disgruntlement that sparked the whole thing.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-president-jeff-kennett-breaks-silence-on-cyril-riolis-bombshell-claim/news-story/f31afc110f09ab15432fbb4dd1ed0f86

Jeff's comment to his wife seemed more like an old man/dad joke than a racist comment to me , but i can understand that if there had been a history of racism towards them I can see how they could have easily assumed that was how it was intended.

Its hard to fault the club itself, with them initiating the investigation, then promptly reporting the results to the AFL integrity commission.

Part of me wonders if Kennett might have known he was throwing Clarkson under a bus though. He may not have been President at the time, but he may well have had information channels.

 

[Yawkey way]

Fagan has taken a leave of absence but here’s an interesting point, clarkson is still employed by hawthorn and hasn’t officially started at north.

 

[Sun Ra]

I've got a friend who got his girlfriend pregnant when he was at university.

He was concerned about his future and not being able to raise a child at the point of time in his life.

My advice to him was to talk to his girlfriend about an abortion.

They did end up having one and they did break up a couple years later for unrelated reasons.

Can only hope this situation at Hawthorn was something to this effect and has just been blown out of proportion by mainstream media.



On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

You didn't tell him do dump her as well though.

 

[Saints43]

Well for all we know the way in which these things were brought up could be misinterpreted. Ie player comes in says xyz and my partner is pregnant. Coaches may say it may be wise to think about an abortion, for you career. Player may take it the wrong way and think coach actually is saying I must get an abortion. I just struggle to see a situation where a coach would say kill your baby.

Football coach advises player to consider an abortion.
Player takes it the wrong way?

If your boss at work sat you down and asked you to consider an abortion, a divorce, moving interstate, alienating a family member or any other massive life decisions, you'd probably only interpret it in the good faith that it was offered? You'd consider that advice as part of their remit as a direct report to them?

 

[stavro#4]

At this point the accusations /allegations are pretty agregious. However, only one side has said their piece, with not a lot of context. I just struggle to be Beilieve that anyone/Clarko would tell a player to terminate a baby in a way the article insinuated.

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

I don’t know what you blokes are smoking.

But even in a hypothetical scenario where 50% of what was reported is true and accurate.

It’s still ****ed up.

You still wouldn’t want your kids being in the care of people who think or act that way and you most certainly wouldn’t want anyone you know to be guided by them in life.

They shouldn’t be in the positions they are in. Clearly unfit for the role.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Fagan has taken a leave of absence but here’s an interesting point, clarkson is still employed by hawthorn and hasn’t officially started at north.

Employed as what at Hawthorn?