List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Dangerousfield]

Pick 40. But we could do this with 2 picks in the 50’s

For every pick we need a vacant senior list spot, don't think we're yet in a position to be using multiple junk picks to match a higher bid.

Rookies, DFA, MSD are free hits, Michalanney is not a free hit

 

[Vader]

We need to be delisting and rookie-ing a contracted player or two (Seedsman, McPherson, Sholl, Crouch - probably in that order).

We don't have the list spaces to do it...

Further, it ends up as a zero sum game once you go from 38/4 to 37/5 or 36/6 - because any addition to the rookie list results in the loss of a position on the senior list.

Murray and Parnell are both Cat A rookies, who are contracted for 2023. If we retain Turner, and move Seedsman to the list, then any additional rookies would result in fewer senior list positions.

 

[Dangerousfield]

For a bottom side we sure have got into a tangle with list spots. Some of those multi year contracts should never have been offered.

There will be some desperate "selling" of a few fringe players to hopefully open up a spot or two so we again have flexibility.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

For a bottom side we sure have got into a tangle with list spots. Some of those multi year contracts should never have been offered.

There will be some desperate "selling" of a few fringe players to hopefully open up a spot or two so we again have flexibility.

Does the system force some clubs into getting to that place. Saving cap space is limited. I still cant understand how the Vic clubs can do it year in and year out. Carlton, Essendon and Richmond imo seem to have unlimited cap space every year to go recruiting. PA seem to do it well even if the outcomes still don't work.

 

[jo172]

For a bottom side we sure have got into a tangle with list spots. Some of those multi year contracts should never have been offered.

There will be some desperate "selling" of a few fringe players to hopefully open up a spot or two so we again have flexibility.

Not just contracts but a distinct lack of ruthlessness in resect to disappointing/middling players. There's a world where you cut/move on from Jones, McAsey, Murphy, Hately, McHenry, Milera, Rowe, Himmelberg, Borlase, McPherson, Davis, Newchurch, Strachan and Turner.

You'll get half of those right and half of those wrong.

You'd be bloody amazed if any of them ended up being difference makers on good sides though.

 

[Scorpus]

I'm sitting back and watching clubs at the top end of the ladder, such as Geelong and Brisbane, pick up elite free agents and top end young talent, and it has occurred to me that either everyone else is cheating the salary cap like crazy, or we have been one of the worst run clubs list management wise in the AFL.

When we were at the top end, playing finals and hoping to win a premiership, we managed to recruit Betts. Then somehow managed to give up 2 first round picks for a clearly past his best Gibbs.

Imagine if we had been able to add players of the calibre of the following:

Geelong
Blicavs
Stanley
Dangerfield
Tuohy
Jeremy Cameron
Isaac Smith
Stengle

Brisbane
Birchall,
Hodge,
Lachie Neale,
Joe Daniher,
Charlie Cameron,
Marcus Adams,
Jarryd Lyons and now
Dunkley and Gunston.

We really do suck.

When you're set to earn over $500k per year would you rather be winning and making less money, or losing and earning more money?

The reality is we aren't an attractive club to play at. Off field issues don't help. Who in their right mind that wasn't from SA would want to come here and play out multiple seasons not making finals when you could go to a finals side instead?

 

[MarcusP2]

When you're set to earn over $500k per year would you rather be winning and making less money, or losing and earning more money?

The reality is we aren't an attractive club to play at. Off field issues don't help. Who in their right mind that wasn't from SA would want to come here and play out multiple seasons not making finals when you could go to a finals side instead?

I mean losing while earning more money works for Carlton.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Scorpus]

I mean losing while earning more money works for Carlton.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Carlton have almost exclusively recruited overrated mercenaries, which you don't want. They haven't nabbed any stars of the likes of Neale, Jeremy Cameron, Tom Lynch

 

[119others]

Not just contracts but a distinct lack of ruthlessness in resect to disappointing/middling players. There's a world where you cut/move on from Jones, McAsey, Murphy, Hately, McHenry, Milera, Rowe, Himmelberg, Borlase, McPherson, Davis, Newchurch, Strachan and Turner.

You'll get half of those right and half of those wrong.

You'd be bloody amazed if any of them ended up being difference makers on good sides though.

Jones - elite pace. Shows glimpses. Kept probably best player in competition to his worst game of the year
McAsey - likely last year upcoming. Hasn’t worked. Not worth trading for a 3/4th rounder
Murphy - happy to keep on list as a 20-30 type player on minimum chips. Rookie draft pick
Hately - no point of difference and v likely gone end of next year.
Mc Henry - plodder. Good team man. Never will amount to much as limited but gives his all. Won’t be a premiership player
Milera - harsh assessment. Has some elite traits but been out for 2 years. Jury out But I retain hope.
Rowe - goneski. Not up to requisite athletic attributes for his position
Himmelberg - required depth, probably cheap. One year would have been more appropriate
Borlase - gone. Not tall, fast or agile enough unfortunately
mcPherson - has shown many games where he is up to the standard. I like him assuming injuries come good
Davis - gone
Newchurch - seems club doesn’t rate many aspects of game (hardness) but I would give one more yr. Pace - wow!
Strachan - not sure how anyone can seriously complain about him as a back up ruckman. Perfectly adequate.
Turner - likely gone. No strong opinion

as others have said, we have the youngest and least experienced list. Natural progression will certainly occur next few years. The question is how much truly elite talent do we possess or will we obtain before our next crack in 3 years or so

 

[Mutineer]

Jones - elite pace. Shows glimpses. Kept probably best player in competition to his worst game of the year
McAsey - likely last year upcoming. Hasn’t worked. Not worth trading for a 3/4th rounder
Murphy - happy to keep on list as a 20-30 type player on minimum chips. Rookie draft pick
Hately - no point of difference and v likely gone end of next year.
Mc Henry - plodder. Good team man. Never will amount to much as limited but gives his all. Won’t be a premiership player
Milera - harsh assessment. Has some elite traits but been out for 2 years. Jury out But I retain hope.
Rowe - goneski. Not up to requisite athletic attributes for his position
Himmelberg - required depth, probably cheap. One year would have been more appropriate
Borlase - gone. Not tall, fast or agile enough unfortunately
mcPherson - has shown many games where he is up to the standard. I like him assuming injuries come good
Davis - gone
Newchurch - seems club doesn’t rate many aspects of game (hardness) but I would give one more yr. Pace - wow!
Strachan - not sure how anyone can seriously complain about him as a back up ruckman. Perfectly adequate.
Turner - likely gone. No strong opinion

as others have said, we have the youngest and least experienced list. Natural progression will certainly occur next few years. The question is how much truly elite talent do we possess or will we obtain before our next crack in 3 years or so

If Turner is gone that will be a list management fail, easily our most consistent SANFL Finals player

 

[119others]

If Turner is gone that will be a list management fail, easily our most consistent SANFL Finals player

Perhaps you are right here. Haven’t seen much of him. Basing it on our limited spots

 

[Golumless]

Jones - elite pace. Shows glimpses. Kept probably best player in competition to his worst game of the year
McAsey - likely last year upcoming. Hasn’t worked. Not worth trading for a 3/4th rounder
Murphy - happy to keep on list as a 20-30 type player on minimum chips. Rookie draft pick
Hately - no point of difference and v likely gone end of next year.
Mc Henry - plodder. Good team man. Never will amount to much as limited but gives his all. Won’t be a premiership player
Milera - harsh assessment. Has some elite traits but been out for 2 years. Jury out But I retain hope.
Rowe - goneski. Not up to requisite athletic attributes for his position
Himmelberg - required depth, probably cheap. One year would have been more appropriate
Borlase - gone. Not tall, fast or agile enough unfortunately
mcPherson - has shown many games where he is up to the standard. I like him assuming injuries come good
Davis - gone
Newchurch - seems club doesn’t rate many aspects of game (hardness) but I would give one more yr. Pace - wow!
Strachan - not sure how anyone can seriously complain about him as a back up ruckman. Perfectly adequate.
Turner - likely gone. No strong opinion

as others have said, we have the youngest and least experienced list. Natural progression will certainly occur next few years. The question is how much truly elite talent do we possess or will we obtain before our next crack in 3 years or so

The vast majority on an AFL list is premiership player material. For most, it's all about falling in the right situation. For the exceptional, they can make it the right situation.

Remember Aaron Keating has two of them.

 

[LeftyLuke]

Why the hell does getting rid of rookies like Davis and Turner help??

They'll be trying to trade Crouch, but you need someone to take him.

They should just pay out crouch's contract if he doesn't get a trade. He isn't playing a game for us next year if he stays.

 

[119others]

The vast majority on an AFL list is premiership player material. For most, it's all about falling in the right situation. For the exceptional, they can make it the right situation.

Remember Aaron Keating has two of them.

2? Marsh was the lucky one in 98

 

[Golumless]

2? Marsh was the lucky one in 98

Keating playing in the '98 grand final is my version of the Mandela effect

 

[dogs105]

Keating playing in the '98 grand final is my version of the Mandela effect

Clark Keating was a gun. We picked up Aaron.

Harrison Himmelberg vs Elliott

Daniel Menzel vs Troy

Michael O'Loughlin vs Ricky


We seem to have picked up the brothers of a lot of good players????

 

[Mutineer]

Clark Keating was a gun. We picked up Aaron.

Harrison Himmelberg vs Elliott

Daniel Menzel vs Troy

Michael O'Loughlin vs Ricky


We seem to have picked up the brothers of a lot of good players????

Darren says hi...

 

[dogs105]

Darren says hi...

Yeah, he had a pretty good brother too. We eventually got the better one...

 

[Golumless]

Clark Keating was a gun. We picked up Aaron.

Harrison Himmelberg vs Elliott

Daniel Menzel vs Troy

Michael O'Loughlin vs Ricky


We seem to have picked up the brothers of a lot of good players????

I reckon every club has a decently sized list of picking the spud brother, especially since it became a draft, seeing there have been a pretty sizable amount of sibling combinations.

We've also won out a few times as well. Nathan Basset instead of Scott, Daniel Talia instead of Michael, Kurt Tippett (I guess he counts) instead of Joel, Nathan Van Berlo instead of Jay

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Clark Keating was a gun. We picked up Aaron.

Harrison Himmelberg vs Elliott

Daniel Menzel vs Troy

Michael O'Loughlin vs Ricky


We seem to have picked up the brothers of a lot of good players????

Troy Bond went ok.

Same with Matty Robran.

Just as well D Jarman came back to join his brother.

The good times...

 

[1990crow]

THIS.

My point was that Geelong and Brisbane have brought in top end talent while at their peak. We didn't.

We recruited fringe players that helped us get to the higher end, but couldn't add top end talent.

We had to overpay a few to keep them with us such as Sloane.

Troy Bond went ok.

Same with Matty Robran.

Just as well D Jarman came back to join his brother.

The good times...

A lifetime now for most crows fans. It’s been a tough ride.

Can’t help feel for Saints and Freo fans

 

[Gtowncrow]

They should just pay out crouch's contract if he doesn't get a trade. He isn't playing a game for us next year if he stays.

But if Rory Laird gets injured, Crouch is the right replacement.

It's playing Laird and Crouch in the same team that can't work.

 

[Golumless]

But if Rory Laird gets injured, Crouch is the right replacement.

It's playing Laird and Crouch in the same team that can't work.

Even then, we're probably better off backing that Sam Berry can pick up the extra load at this point.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

For those questioning whether we have cap space, we have only 4 players in the top 100 paid AFL players... & they are nowhere near the highest.

Of the top 50, the number of players with the salary range..

total, club, 0.9-1M+, 0.8-0.9M, 0.7-0.8M
2 Adelaide 0, 0, 2
3 Brisbane 0, 1, 2
4 Carlton 0, 1, 3
3 Collingwood 1, 0, 2
2 Essendon 0, 0, 2
3 Fremantle 1, 0, 2
2 Geelong 1, 0, 1
2 GC 0, 0, 2
4 GWS 1, 2, 1
4 Hawks 0, 0, 4
3 Melbourne 0, 3, 0
0 North Melbourne 0, 0, 0
1 Port 0, 0, 1
2 Richmond 2, 0, 0
2 St Kilda 0, 1, 1
3 Sydney 1, 1, 1
4 W Bulldogs 1, 1, 2
6 West Coast 1, 2, 3

Adelaide's highest paid is Laird (750-850), Sloane (700-800)... along with O'Brien & Dawson who are in the top 100.

If someone has access to the tiser site, they can populate the top 100.

West Coast getting value for money

 

[Gtowncrow]

Even then, we're probably better off backing that Sam Berry can pick up the extra load at this point.

I'm hoping for more from Berry than an accumulation role. He's our only mid with burst strength.