List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[arsesmart]

I mentioned that 25 touches because that is what Langdon averaged before he was traded, and with the greater body of work and greater speed, he would have been worth more at the trade table than Henry is going to be.

Henry's disposal is not something that cuts teams up at the moment. Lots of short chips, including sideways and backwards. He doesn't have that line breaking pure speed like Langdon or Hill. That is worth a lot on the trade table.

You said it yourself with Clark about the contract status. If he was out of contract then he would have gone for something in the pick 35-50 range.

What are you basing Langdon being much faster than Henry on?

 

[go_the_dockers]

What are you basing Langdon being much faster than Henry on?

Henry tested fast before the draft, but does not use it in games.

Langdon would regularly break lines, but I don't think the difference is raw speed but more than likely fitness. Langdon is a running machine.

 

[freo_leo29]

What are you basing Langdon being much faster than Henry on?

On the eye test Landon is way quicker atleast

 

[arsesmart]

On the eye test Landon is way quicker atleast

LOL "the eye test"

 

[freo_leo29]

LOL "the eye test"

What? Yours don't work or something?

 

[arsesmart]

Henry tested fast before the draft, but does not use it in games.

Langdon would regularly break lines, but I don't think the difference is raw speed but more than likely fitness. Langdon is a running machine.

Definitely Landon was a more full chested runner by the time he left here and has continued that as a more mature player (having confidence in his game and role in the team).

Henry doesn't do the balls to the wind running much in games as yet. It could be something he develops as he goes. He's more a mop up, in traffic, precision for of wing at the moment.

 

[s_wd6]

Am currently in the same room as MG. He looked very interested upon hearing on the news that Aish and Chappy will be back

 

[Ge3ks]

Who is MG?

 

[s_wd6]

Who is MG?

Georgiades

 

[arsesmart]

What? Yours don't work or something?

Well, by asking the question I was seeing if there was something specific and objective behind it and not just general and impressionistic.

Your eyes can work fine, but they do feed data into your brain, which much prefers pre-existing stories (particularly emotionally crafted ones) over disconfirming evidence. I think the "eye test" can be ok for more general (partially formed) impressions (understanding them for what they are), built over a prolonged period and hopefully added to by some more direct comparison events.

Looking at the "quicker player" specifics, there are many things that can influence the pace used (observed or interpreted) in any one moment within a game, including fatigue levels, situation, confidence, game style/plan etc. I'd question which of these are sampled to form the "eye-test" for Langdon over the "eye-test" for Henry.

One thing I've noticed in how fans etc describe a player's speed is it becomes very rubbery and usually has more to do with how they feel about that player. Hence the eye-test ain't a good measure for objectivity's sake.

 

[Bigger]

Henry to Carlton. For pick 9.

 

[Bender571]

What are you basing Langdon being much faster than Henry on?

Langdon ran a 2.92 20m sprint at his draft combine. Henry missed the combine with injury, but this link says he ran a 3.06 20m sprint at state testing.

Ed would often run players down from behind, and get goals out the back with pace. Can't says I've seen Henry do that.

 

[arsesmart]

Henry to Carlton. For pick 9.

As things stand it might be hard for Carltoon to get their hands on pick 9. They could do a trade with the Suns for 9, 24 and maybe a player (Martin?? McGovern?).

 

[freo_leo29]

Well, by asking the question I was seeing if there was something specific and objective behind it and not just general and impressionistic.

Your eyes can work fine, but they do feed data into your brain, which much prefers pre-existing stories (particularly emotionally crafted ones) over disconfirming evidence. I think the "eye test" can be ok for more general (partially formed) impressions (understanding them for what they are), built over a prolonged period and hopefully added to by some more direct comparison events.

Looking at the "quicker player" specifics, there are many things that can influence the pace used (observed or interpreted) in any one moment within a game, including fatigue levels, situation, confidence, game style/plan etc. I'd question which of these are sampled to form the "eye-test" for Langdon over the "eye-test" for Henry.

One thing I've noticed in how fans etc describe a player's speed is it becomes very rubbery and usually has more to do with how they feel about that player. Hence the eye-test ain't a good measure for objectivity's sake.

Well I'm one of the only people to consistently support Henry on here (check the Henry thread)

So when I say Langdon is faster, I mean it

 

[freo_leo29]

Langdon ran a 2.92 20m sprint at his draft combine. Henry missed the combine with injury, but this link says he ran a 3.06 20m sprint at state testing.

Ed would often run players down from behind, and get goals out the back with pace. Can't says I've seen Henry do that.

Yeah Langdon is quite clearly faster than Henry, was one of the fastest players on our list

Henry wouldn't crack the top 10

 

[arsesmart]

Well I'm one of the only people to consistently support Henry on here (check the Henry thread)

So when I say Langdon is faster, I mean it

Sorry, I was asking for evidence. Whatever your posting history is on Henry, it aint evidence here.

Bender571 has (on face value) produced some of the most solid evidence (re the time trials), although you could have a wee caveat on it being not totally conclusive given the factors that might impact time trials. That evidence hardly indicates substantial differences between in those time trial times (and especially that would play out so significantly within games and over time).

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Sorry, I was asking for evidence. Whatever your posting history is on Henry, it aint evidence here.

Bender571 has (on face value) produced some of the most solid evidence (re the time trials), although you could have a wee caveat on it being not totally conclusive given the factors that might impact time trials. That evidence hardly indicates substantial differences between in those time trial times (and especially that would play out so significantly within games and over time).

I'm not sure what possible more evidence someone else can provide outside draft time trials short of magically setting up a 50m race between the two?

Also, you can write off the eye test but it's not hard to watch the game and deduce Henry has elite agility but isnt particularly fast on a footy field.

 

[arsesmart]

I'm not sure what possible more evidence someone else can provide outside draft time trials short of magically setting up a 50m race between the two?

Also, you can write off the eye test but it's not hard to watch the game and deduce Henry has elite agility but isnt particularly fast on a footy field.

On your first point, exactly. My question was on the definitively asserting that Henry was substantially slower than Langdon (and if he isn't substantially slower, why is it a point?).

On your second point, is agility a part of being fast on a footy field?

...So we can say he escapes tight situations, with say "agility", but is there something specific and observable you could point to that would cap his pace as "not particularly fast"?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

On your first point, exactly. My question was on the definitively asserting that Henry was substantially slower than Langdon (and if he isn't substantially slower, why is it a point?).

On your second point, is agility a part of being fast on a footy field?

...So we can say he escapes tight situations, with say "agility", but is there something specific and observable you could point to that would cap his pace as "not particularly fast"?

I think agility is a different thing and when people say fast on here, they always mean straight line / line breaking with speed.

You're asking for hard evidence to back-up something that is hard to quantify without being intimately involved in a club or having access to club data. From watching every Freo game since Henry has been drafted, seeing him run down from behind on several occassions and rarely if ever breaking away from a player using pace, I would put him in the "not particularly fast" bracket.

And that's ok, from watching all those games, I have put him in the "elite agility" bracket as well the "can cut you up with small precise kicking bracket" as well

 

[Footskill]

I think agility is a different thing and when people say fast on here, they always mean straight line / line breaking with speed.

You're asking for hard evidence to back-up something that is hard to quantify without being intimately involved in a club or having access to club data. From watching every Freo game since Henry has been drafted, seeing him run down from behind on several occassions and rarely if ever breaking away from a player using pace, I would put him in the "not particularly fast" bracket.

And that's ok, from watching all those games, I have put him in the "elite agility" bracket as well the "can you up with small precise kicking bracket" as well

Agree. Agility and pure foot speed is different. Agility is how fast you can change directions. Walters and switta are agile but not fast.

I think if there was a ball to be won and it was 1 on 1 foot race to get it, Liam wouldn't necessarily out sprint a Langdon etc

 

[Big Animal]

wow, the Henry v Langdonoutonthefullagain speed debate is really doing it for me. Please continue.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

wow, the Henry v Langdonoutonthefullagain speed debate is really doing it for me. Please continue.

I can bring it back to asking if we should trade Darcy for Naughton again if you like?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Am currently in the same room as MG. He looked very interested upon hearing on the news that Aish and Chappy will be back

Is this is Adelaide or WA?

 

[Polo342]

I can bring it back to asking if we should trade Darcy for Naughton again if you like?

What else would doggies have to chuck in?

 

[s_wd6]

Is this is Adelaide or WA?

WA