Autopsy 2023 Rd 10 Blues lose game in first quarter

[Jeremias]

The problem with trading players like this is you never get equitable value back and they turn it on for a year or two at their next club before playing the same routine.

Not saying it is or will be the case with Gov, but sometimes the freed up list spot is value enough.

 

[kreuze_missile]

If we keep Voss then everyone else has to go.

Either way all the assistants need to go, on paper one of the worst groups in the business.

 

[RAPPA]

The problem with trading players like this is you never get equitable value back and they turn it on for a year or two at their next club before playing the same routine.

Sometimes you just have to be prepared to not get the desired return. He lacks ticker, his body is questionable and frankly he ain’t much chop and is holding us back from playing someone like Kemp whom we could persist with as a long term option.

We have to face reality that some of these players are not going to yield the desired return on the trade table. But keeping them on the list is far more detrimental.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Not saying it is or will be the case with Gov, but sometimes the freed up list spot is value enough.

There's also salary cap relief to be had.

Pies cleaned out a few bad contracts and look where they are now.

We've got plenty of shockers on our books right through to 2030.

Time to offload a few.

 

[Wickzki]

He's 29 next year, better to trade now if there's any interest than trust his back/hammies are worth building transition plays around

At most you're looking at a third round selection and more than likely a DFA.

I'd prefer to work on keeping him motivated on a cheap contract where he can be an asset. If he gets more elsewhere let him walk.

He's another who looked promising at the start of the year and has progressively gotten worse as the team as regressed. I think it's more the system and team than the player. Give him a week off and let him freshen up.

 

[blueblooded]

If it wasn’t for Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

we’d be sitting in the bottom 4 right now. He might not even be enough from saving us from falling into it by the bye.


80,000 at the G today and it was like a morgue

- skill level disgrace is a disgrace, there’s no care with the ball in hand.

- ball movement and system is broken

- defensively we are a shambles

It’s coaching and it’s players …

The game plan is not great but i’m not sure exactly it is that I’m watching. All i see is poor skills and decision making from the vast majority of our players every week.. bar the first 8 games last year this group has been deplorable for 8 years . Not sure another new coach fixes these guys.

 

[Sam The Doc]

The problem with trading players like this is you never get equitable value back and they turn it on for a year or two at their next club before playing the same routine.

Prefer piss these attitudes off for someone interested though.

 

[Wickzki]

Not saying it is or will be the case with Gov, but sometimes the freed up list spot is value enough.

Good point. But we have a lot of players who need to be moved on before Gov. That's my biggest concern to be honest.

 

[Rustica]

It was the most underwhelming 85k crowd for a Carlton v Collingwood game. Can only blame the team. They give nothing for us to cheer or make noise at. Shame

All this talk about us being 2021 Collingwood. Probably true, however its not the coach this time but certain players in the group.

Bit of a clean out coming at the end of thr year imo

 

[Revenant1965]

We're so afraid of losing that we don’t know how to win.... I think we have the player quality to win more games than we are at the moment.... As someone said, we are so far off from competent and yet if all those things were addressed we are not that far away.... just not sure about the future, but it's getting harder and harder to watch...

 

[Milsome]

That might be true, but what did collingwood do? They sacked Buckley, threw caution to the wind and got an unproven Coach. They embraced flair and lair, they brought back the joy of playing the world's best football code.

I tend to agree Carlton players seem to have a fear of breaking teams rules, it looks stilted and complicated (too complicated for some. Lewy Young?) It's beginning to look like the Bolton and Teague days where self preservation and getting a game next week trumps working for the team.

What would I do? Without knowlege of what happens inside the four walls it is hard to know what to do to turn attitudes around, but I would radically (?) change the personell, encourage risk taking and dash, making this the team rule to which the players must adhere. Play whatever is available in the 2's. Binns, etc. Even Dow (who I don't rate, but make sure he knows this is make or break time). It is obvious we have players on the fringes who have talent, players like Will Setterfield who has been a revelation since joining *. It's not life boats on the Titanic time, it is attitude re-adjustment time.

I'm a huge fan of Jack S, but maybe he need a rest, same as Durdin. McGovern can go play tiddly winks for Sth Freemantle. I don't rate TDK, I don't think he exhibits the atributes of a genuine First ruck, but what was shown today is that the 2 ruck setup is a requirement. The idiocy of Jack up against a genuine first ruck went a long way to gifting them their winning lead.

Ed C is a hero and a warrior. Respect the eff out of him, but he is now becoming a liability. Thanks for your service Ed.

If Kemp is fit, bring him in and play him forward, 3rd tall and target him. Martin and Cunners when fit, must play or be shown the door.

Run at the defence and make the f50 entries from 20-25 mts closer to goal. This gives option for a short kick to a small within range, makes us less predictably C and H focussed. Even skid the thing in low and hard along the ground if need be, and faced with another Moore situation. Do something different. Rule 1. DO NOT KICK IT DIRECTLY TO THE OPPOSITIONS BEST DEFENDER!

Is it cattle? A little, we are slow and lack confidence in skills, which is a spiraliing situation. Lack confidence, miss the kick, lower the confidence, rinse and repeat.

Is it system? Looks like it to me. No cohesion, no buy in. Confusion.

Is it admin/management/board? Very likely. Matheson et al will no doubt have their sticky fingers meddling.

But

I think it can be turned around, and back to reasonable, if not Premiership quality fairly quickly. We just need to stop trying to disprove Einsteins definition of insanity.

Stop making too much sense, they may actually follow your ideas!

 

[kreuze_missile]

But we have a lot of players who need to be moved on before Gov. That's my biggest concern to be honest.

How many of those are on McGovern level money though?

I'm not sure we could give Martin or Williams away even if we wanted to.

 

[Wickzki]

How many of those are on McGovern level money though?

I'm not sure we could give Martin or Williams away even if we wanted to.

We don't need to worry about McGovern level money given he's OOC.

We re-sign him to a team friendly contract or he walks, probably as a DFA

We will not keep him on the wage he's on now

 

[FRUMPY]

Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

30

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

will be the type to up and leave as soon as someone else offers a better contract.

He and Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

are the types to take the money where it is offered and go and sit in someone else's rehab room.

No loyalty to Carlton will be shown by either of them. Mercenaries.

Been terrible recruits

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[passmark]

Nothing wrong with the Voss presser.
He thinks he knows what the issues are and he was pretty strong on it.
Not sure what else you’d expect from 10 minutes of post match questions.

 

[kreuze_missile]

We don't need to worry about McGovern level money given he's OOC.

We re-sign him to a team friendly contract or he walks, probably as a DFA

We will not keep him on the wage he's on now

Yeah, I'm aware. I was interested to know what other players you wanted to move on ahead of him.

 

[Blueballs38]

Need to take an axe to this team. Identify the list cloggers and do a mini, smart rebuild. Surround Voss with the right assistants, what he has at his disposal is a liability. Get our group fit!

I would really like to see a couple of shock axing next week. This team needs a rocket. This game should be the line in the sand. Harden the **** up or get the **** out. Enough is enough.

 

[Wickzki]

Yeah, I'm aware. I was interested to know what other players you wanted to move on ahead of him.

Look at the injury list and the familiar names on it.

That's the starting point if they don't play good, consistent, football after the bye for the rest of the year.
.
That's the low hanging fruit and the easiest of list upgrades.

 

[BM123]

I'm sorry but have you ever heard of the saying if it's not broken don't fix it?

Vossy has taken what was arguably our greatest strength as a team over the past few years and turned it into an incoherent mess.

We've gotten steadily worse and easier to score against as the year has progressed to the point now that those who were previously muted as AA quality have lost all confidence in their abilities and are generating calls to have a week off.

This isn't just a back six issue. I can't recall the last time our forward half players locked the ball in. It's to the point that I don't think we even think about that aspect of our game anymore and it was a trademark last year generating many additional opportunities.

Point out a year where we were accountable defensively in the modern era?

Last year we were constantly letting sides get the most of their momentum and it finally killed us in the last round. At least people bought into all the flashy run ons we had even though we always let sides back in too.

All that freedom to play but I've never seen a Carlton side ever play proper team defense like Geelong, Hawthorn and Richmond did at their best. Hell our forward line applying pressure for...half a season at best is a re-occuring theme for ages regardless of coach too. At the moment we need to sack the forward line coach and go hard for some proper smalls and medium forwards. Hoping Motlop and co suddenly turn into stars this early on is getting us nowhere especially with how crap our delivery is in general. Why are they never front and centre? Are we going to give our forward coach a million years or so again like Barker had for sfa reward for us.

Weitering may have his reasons but he is one of many among our leaders who aren't earning their pay. I'm not going to single out Voss for Carlton fielding another weak leadership group. Mcgovern has been soft as it gets and he is earning 750k supposedly.

I'd hate us to give these players another out again for failing to perform. That's the only thing we've seemed to achieve by sacking coaches before. What exactly are these paid professionals responsible for if they can't kick or tackle?

I'm not a Voss fan boy but I don't have the faith in Carlton to pick a better coach. Apart from the classic surge from a new coach that lasts for awhile I have no faith in our players to suddenly perform when it matters under a different one either. God forbid we back in a coach for once like we back in the players for once. I hope Carlton get him the best assistants possible and go from there. I'm over this club looking for the next messiah.

 

[ajb72]

Not sure I’ve seen 2 players play as poorly as gov and sos were today. If they were wearing black and white stripes today it wouldn’t have been a surprise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Korn]

The best passage of play was when we kick the ball to Owies on a lead in the forward. I think it happened twice?

 

[Blueballs38]

Nothing wrong with the Voss presser.
He thinks he knows what the issues are and he was pretty strong on it.
Not sure what else you’d expect from 10 minutes of post match questions.

I liked his interview, just hope he knows how to reach these halfwits wearing the jumper. They seem like deers in headlights.

 

[Arr0w]

Outworked the Pies for running, they just had more speed, like most teams this year

Really need to address our lack of speed in the off season

Not the main reason we lost, just a contributing factor

 

[DangerousD]

This is a balance of poor coaching and player execution/laziness/selfishness.

I really liked this post from you but I’ve singled out this line and wondering if you could expand.

If some is poor coaching, what can be done? Why is the coaching poor, which coach or coaches are not up to the job?

If players are lazy and selfish, does the coach need to accept responsibility for this as he picks them each week?

Im obviously worried we don’t have a good coach but wondering is there anything that will be done to rectify any coaching issues moving forward.

Desperately need a win next week.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Nothing wrong with the Voss presser.
He thinks he know what the issues and he was pretty strong on it.
Not sure what else you’d expect from 10 minutes of post match questions.

As a start.. To express confidence that he will be able to sucessfully implement his system at some point. To acknowledge that in sport winning is the measure of sucess, not some other made up criteria. To share some comprehendable insight as to why he let Moore do whatever he wanted all day, rather than saying something as stupid as he was tagging Daicos and he can't negate 2 players at once.

On the positive, Voss was at his most honest today. Bit too much nourishment talk.. but at least the sentiment was disappointment and acknowledgement that we're nowhere near it. Much prefer that over the baseless optimism we've been fed for a month.