Autopsy 2023 Rd 10 Blues lose game in first quarter

[carlton_99]

We really need to kick more like that - kick it right in front of our team mate instead of kicking it high in the air.

Kick is great but we also need our forwards to lead more like Harry did in that clip - should happen more if we move the ball quicker as it gives the defence less time to flood back and block leading lanes

 

[BlueBayou]

Not many positives from today but thought Boyd was bright spark in his return. Hope he gets a good run at it.

yep, 2nd half was better than ok. Nice bullet pass in the last. Keep.

 

[BlueBayou]

Oh hell no.

Pagan and Malthouse all over again.

Geelong have not sacked a coach since John Devine in 1988.

Maybe it's time we took a leaf out of their book..

It's arguable that all this chopping and changing of senior coaches in the last 20 years has contributed significantly in our poor, mediocre culture and lack of any meaningful and stability amongst our playing group.

If for whatever reason Voss is let go at some point during or after this season (hopefully not) I would prefer to promote from within, Ash Hansen is a future coach in training, highly regarded around the league and knows our players strengths and weakness pretty well by now.

But my strong preference is for Voss to stay on at least for another season..

Better than that Elmer, we need to extend his tenure, and make it stick. Cut out the 'player power' clique. Make the players subservient to the Coach, not the other way around.

 

[BlueBayou]

We really need to kick more like that - kick it right in front of our team mate instead of kicking it high in the air.

as Homer might say.... durhhh..

That was the most significant difference in todays game. Players like Mihocech getting superb delivery, as opposed to our faith in bang it long to H or C.
Which forward kicked more goals? M, H or C?

 

[coryne]

Pathetic and irrelevant, two words that perfectly describe the CFC .....

 

[Blue1980]

Not saying it is or will be the case with Gov, but sometimes the freed up list spot is value enough.

No one else would give up anything for Gov, just him off the books would be good enough at this point.

At best he stays on dramatically reduced salary.

Its entirely possible he wont be in the AFL system next year.

 

[Blue1980]

Point out a year where we were accountable defensively in the modern era?

Last year we were constantly letting sides get the most of their momentum and it finally killed us in the last round. At least people bought into all the flashy run ons we had even though we always let sides back in too.

All that freedom to play but I've never seen a Carlton side ever play proper team defense like Geelong, Hawthorn and Richmond did at their best. Hell our forward line applying pressure for...half a season at best is a re-occuring theme for ages regardless of coach too. At the moment we need to sack the forward line coach and go hard for some proper smalls and medium forwards. Hoping Motlop and co suddenly turn into stars this early on is getting us nowhere especially with how crap our delivery is in general. Why are they never front and centre? Are we going to give our forward coach a million years or so again like Barker had for sfa reward for us.

Weitering may have his reasons but he is one of many among our leaders who aren't earning their pay. I'm not going to single out Voss for Carlton fielding another weak leadership group. Mcgovern has been soft as it gets and he is earning 750k supposedly.

I'd hate us to give these players another out again for failing to perform. That's the only thing we've seemed to achieve by sacking coaches before. What exactly are these paid professionals responsible for if they can't kick or tackle?

I'm not a Voss fan boy but I don't have the faith in Carlton to pick a better coach. Apart from the classic surge from a new coach that lasts for awhile I have no faith in our players to suddenly perform when it matters under a different one either. God forbid we back in a coach for once like we back in the players for once. I hope Carlton get him the best assistants possible and go from there. I'm over this club looking for the next messiah.

Thing is we may need a new coach and a clean out of players. If we got rid of Voss end of this season, chances are a new coach would want to give everyone a chance etc.

With the amount of players we have playing terribly though and well below 2022 levels it does make you wonder if something further is up at the club, or did last year knock the stuffing out of them?

We all have theories, I do think that we have over-compensated and gone overly defensive though with the game plan. Maybe this is necessary teething problems and we will come out the other side, but I doubt its going to work as it is.

 

[Blue1980]

To be honest I agree with this. Whoever we have as head coach should be surrounded by the best we can get no exceptions.

Hardwick is one example but Malthouse, Chris Scott, Thompson, Clarkson are other examples of coaches that got flags when clubs held firm instead of sacking them when things looked shaky.

In regards to whether any of our coaches have been the right appointment It's hard to say. Do you expect Carlton to pick someone better if they sacked Voss now? This whole routine of expecting the coach to address decades of mediocrity in one or two seasons has gotten us nowhere. We keep lauding our lists "potential" over and over again so we expect the next guy to wring it out of them but it's not working.

May as well aim for some resemblance of consistency in the main coaching role and work around that for once. It's s**t house for players development and culture when it's a revolving door.

There is a big difference with the above. All of them had some level of success, making finals multiple years in a row etc. We have reached the lofty heights of 9th.

 

[blues4flag]

Better than that Elmer, we need to extend his tenure, and make it stick. Cut out the 'player power' clique. Make the players subservient to the Coach, not the other way around.

Yes, yes, yes.

We hold our players unaccountable. Oh, you're losing games? Don't worry, we'll find you a new coach and he'll make everything all better.

3 years later...

Voss is a coach who seems to have the respect, mentality and fortitude to get the best out of a playing group. Our best since Ratten. Happy for us to back him in and surround him with best in class assistants to address any perceived shortcomings.

Endless example of coaches who've come good after backing in a coach. Very few of the latter, although there's not a club as trigger happy as the Blues when it comes to sacking a coach.

 

[BM123]

There is a big difference with the above. All of them had some level of success, making finals multiple years in a row etc. We have reached the lofty heights of 9th.

None of that stopped us from sacking Ratten. Hell Richmond kept Hardwick on because they knew they had to stop the cycle of sacking coaches too often and destabilising their club.

Players had every opportunity to make finals last year but they blew it. Even this year what stopped us from beating St Kilda and Bulldogs for example was the players poor goal kicking skills. Richmond spent years under Hardwick enduring these kind of losses because their playing group couldn't rise to the occasion. We spend about a year and a bit before we lose our nerve and look for the next easy dopamine hit from a new coach/messiah.

Unless our plan is to win the flag in the first half of the season from the new coach high I don't see how we'll break the trend.

 

[Blue1980]

None of that stopped us from sacking Ratten. Hell Richmond kept Hardwick on because they knew they had to stop the cycle of sacking coaches too often and destabilising their club.

Players had every opportunity to make finals last year but they blew it. Even this year what stopped us from beating St Kilda and Bulldogs for example was the players poor goal kicking skills. Richmond spent years under Hardwick enduring these kind of losses because their playing group couldn't rise to the occasion. We spend about a year and a bit before we lose our nerve and look for the next easy dopamine hit from a new coach/messiah.

Unless our plan is to win the flag in the first half of the season from the new coach high I don't see how we'll break the trend.

There is a lot to play out this year, but if things go as I think they will over the next month, we could be going into the bye 4-9-1. The drums will be beating very very loud by that point.

If you want to take a glass half full approach, last 3 weeks we have played 2 of the best sides in the comp and another building nicely into top 4 contention.

Sydney haven’t been going any better than us really but I still expect them to account for us comfortably.

Melbourne probably ends up similar to todays game, no chance and should beat us easily

Essendon have been better than us, and look engaged in the way they play. I don’t see us winning.

Gold Coast at the G. They have been a bit up and down, but have been getting more wins on the road (especially against poorer opposition). I’d expect them to beat us as well.

 

[BM123]

Thing is we may need a new coach and a clean out of players. If we got rid of Voss end of this season, chances are a new coach would want to give everyone a chance etc.

With the amount of players we have playing terribly though and well below 2022 levels it does make you wonder if something further is up at the club, or did last year knock the stuffing out of them?

We all have theories, I do think that we have over-compensated and gone overly defensive though with the game plan. Maybe this is necessary teething problems and we will come out the other side, but I doubt its going to work as it is.

Voss is asking for the players to be accountable.

Considering this current playing group and Carlton recent history this is the equivalent of preaching abstinence at a swingers party in terms of difficulty.

He's backed the players in all season to perform and they haven't. Leadership group in particular haven't proved themselves worth a damn.

 

[YeoShuey]

I wonder if Docherty would be interested in a leadership role again. He was really good and should be in a leadership position

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Weak footed, half effort players need to be removed from our team and list immediately.

Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

needs to go, and McGovern can get ****ed also.

Then the slow players, sorry but Eds time is up and it turns our Hewett is the C-Grade player we paid for.

 

[BM123]

There is a lot to play out this year, but if things go as I think they will over the next month, we could be going into the bye 4-9-1. The drums will be beating very very loud by that point.

If you want to take a glass half full approach, last 3 weeks we have played 2 of the best sides in the comp and another building nicely into top 4 contention.

Sydney haven’t been going any better than us really but I still expect them to account for us comfortably.

Melbourne probably ends up similar to todays game, no chance and should beat us easily

Essendon have been better than us, and look engaged in the way they play. I don’t see us winning.

Gold Coast at the G. They have been a bit up and down, but have been getting more wins on the road (especially against poorer opposition). I’d expect them to beat us as well.

I don't doubt everyone will be keen for us to get the next scapegoat in for Voss. Media loves how easily we follow a consistent narrative with this kind of stuff.

Sydney have injuries which may save us against them at least. I see our season playing out the same script others have gone through before us. Players will pick up once the season over and everyone will rave about how Voss is....or was holding them back.

Essendon are riding the new coaches high and they run harder than us. Gold Coast aren't great at the G so we have a shot at least.

I'm not expecting finals this year but I wasn't buying too much into the narrative from last year either I suppose. We lost agency in far too many games and I think the Sydney game at Etihad last year where we looked incredible in the 2nd quarter before going into our shell for the entire 2nd half is the best example of that. We rode momentum well but dealt with it even worse. Now Voss is aiming for something more dour but potentially equally as hard to sustain. I must admit I'm far more invested in seeing how the players handle our current game plan compared to last years where it was obviously not going to hold up when it mattered.

End of the day we need a huge lift from the playing group across the board.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Gov and SOS are absolutely cooked at the moment they should be the first 2 dropped


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or switch roles....

Maybe dropped first then switch roles !!

 

[Bostonian]

Ash Hansen is a future coach in training, highly regarded around the league and knows our players strengths and weakness pretty well by now.

He's our forward line and offensive coach and our forward line system is abysmal.

He is one of the weaknesses.

 

[Burgers45]

Dow with all due respect, would have hardly made a lick of difference today, he has had plenty of chances at AFL level and proven he isn't up to it at that level (a rich man's Nick Graham really)

Agree with you about Kemp though. Should be playing in the seniors every game for the rest of the season.

Play Kemp forward instead of jsos. He's played there before and done ok. No harm in trying him there. As much as jsos gives tremendous effort, he doesn't play his position well enough, that is to kick goals.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Dow with all due respect, would have hardly made a lick of difference today

With all due respect, you wouldn't know because he never gets selected.
You don't think he's good enough? Prove it.

Let's see him get picked for a 3 game stint and then we can all sink the boots in after he's shown nothing and proven you right.

Until then, why not demand integrity from the match committee? They've proven a number of times this year they're happy to lose a match before its even played.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Let’s be perfectly clear, we were absolutely deplorable with no system, strategy or skill.
Game was over at half time.
2nd half wasn’t better- we kicked 3 goals!! Pies backed off & just didn’t give a * as they knew there was no chance we were ever going to kick a score to beat them.

Abject failure on all levels starting with the Coach & Match Committee & moving to sub standard skills & decision making of the players .

The “system” does not work!!!

Sadly this

 

[Sonny Jim]

I can't believe the bullshit this club continues to throw up

 

[Blue By Blood]

I have concerns with Voss but we just can’t change the coach again. We need to hack him in, surround him with as many quality assistants, football department resources etc that we can find.

Carlton is where careers go to die and we’ve sacked too many coaches over the past 5 years. The last thing this club needs is more instability.

Even if he had quality assistants around him he would still back in his methodology. He seems inflexible to change. From Rd 11 onwards last year we have been found out and if you look at the statistics this year we are virtually similar in most categories to the second half of last year. Nothing has changed. Even now supporters can see it. Media can see it. The game plan needs to change but he’s failing to turn it around. I’d be all for backing him in if it looked like we had a game plan that fit in with modern trends. Or if he’d shown the ability to be flexible and have a plan B. Or if he had made at least 50% of the playing group better. Or if I could see any glimmer of skill or tactical nous to his coaching. Or if he rewarded VFL form and had selection integrity. But he has done none of those things. He has shown zero qualities as a coach to this point to have the faith to back him in longer term.

Backing him in and extending his contract would be demoralising to players and supporters if it continues to go south and we see no hope of improvement. Some supporters are apparently already leaving games before half time because the game plan is uninspiring. Not to mention then you get stuck paying out multiple years of a long contract if it hits the fan. It’s not like we can ship out every player who revolts against him or who has lost faith in him. You can’t get rid of a whole team.

We need to realise we made the mistake, rip the band aid off at the end of the year, and go again with a new coach, new assistants and a proper review into injuries and off field operations. Just because we have sacked other coaches does not mean we should be afraid to do so again. We just have to make sure we go through an absolutely thorough process in finding the right coach which I can almost guarantee we didn’t with his selection. It was all in on Clarkson. Then all in on Lyon. Then we cobbled together a short list of about 3 candidates. We have made so many mistakes bar the Bolton appointment who was the right fit at the time for such a young group. Continuing with a mistake because we’re too afraid to admit we made yet another mistake or to save face is just silly and will hold us back while our players are in their prime. The list isn’t perfect and has its deficiencies but it’s a lot better than what we’re dishing up at the moment.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

We've gone from a situation, where we could've and should've beaten Collingwood in the final round last year, to now being beaten comfortably enough by them.

Since that round eleven defeat to the Pies last year, we've played twenty one games and won just eight of them. The only decent teams we beat in that run, were the Dockers last year and a Geelong team this year suffering from a premiership hangover.

A serious long term malaise has set in here. Something has gone badly wrong, and we seem to have no solutions to this.

At the moment it feels like we're on the road to nowhere under Vossy. This situation needs to turnaround very soon, because Carlton right now are a mediocre team playing mediocre football.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

We aren’t progressing
Our game style is crap
Our opposition analyst is crap
Zero F****n system
Only Cerra midfield has improved
Rest of the midfield has regressed
All our lines are absolutely crap
We’re look poorly coached all round
Players look lost of direction
Players are incredibly poor full stop

We’re not making finals

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

We aren’t progressing
Our game style is crap
Our opposition analyst is crap
Zero F****n system
Only Cerra midfield has improved
Rest of the midfield has regressed
All our lines are absolutely crap
We’re look poorly coached all round
Players look lost of direction
Players are incredibly poor full stop

We’re not making finals

2012, 2014 and it sadly looks like 2023 is going in the same direction. Whenever this club is expected to step up to the plate, it just never happens.

When we make two steps forwards, we then make another twenty steps backwards. This has been the story of the Carlton football club since the salary cap debacle. Getting rid of Ratts to bring in Mick Malthouse set us back years as well.

That shower of scum are back as legit flag contenders, while we seem to be staring down the barrel of a mini rebuild. Twenty one years worth of mediocrity and crushed dreams. It really is soul destroying. Oh well hopefully this sleeping giant of a club will wake up eventually!