Team Mgmt. 2024 Back Line

[Godzke]

Have you been privy to the game plan ? There have been times they have been told not to go out of their lane and limit the turnovers.
I think people who do not like him get hung up on the times that he does not take an obvious target , which does happen , but then seem to ignore the fact that it does not always happen. In fact it happens less than when he does take good options. He is not as bad as people say IMO and there are some game plan factors in play.

Yeah this has been a problem for a long time for the whole team.

We have struggled to break down opposition zones, forcing us to kick long down the line. A couple, like Merrett or McGrath, might take a bit more risk trying to hit 15-30m targets on the 45 but really its something that has been institutionalised into the team from Worsfold days.

It's the same when attempting to hit medium-long targets with kick-ins, both when defending and when taking them.

We need to get smarter with switching and hitting targets around CHB to open up the field of play.


In terms of our 2024 backline, I'm already on record as predicting:

• Heppell has one more good year in him
• Hind will fall off a cliff
• Kelly will return to form as our #1 lock down general defender

With that in mind...

FB: Kelly McKay Laverde
HB: Redman Ridley McGrath

Bench: Heppell

Rotations (<30% TOG spent in back line): Durham (from wing), Hobbs (mid/bench) and Caldwell (mid/bench)

I know both Hobbs and Caldwell showed a bit as resting forwards, but feel that was partly due to injuries. They are two of the three best shutdown mids we have (the other being Setters), so makes sense for them to drift back to pick up a resting mid. Setters prefer not to rotate. Keep him 80% target TOG as a pure mid.

 

[Keystone agony]

Im hopeful Cox/Reid has a good next 3 months and its

Cox/Reid/Heppell > Kelly
Hind > Heppell

Ideally Cox.

I still think Hinds pure speed and kicking and changing direction is crucial

Heppell as sub for me as much as possible

 

[Happyskeret]

What I seen from last year was that Kelly was higher in the pecking order than Hind but as imperfect as he is I believe that Brad recognised that when he went out we lacked a certain something and it hurt our dynamics in defence so he brought him back in. For the record I would prefer to see Kelly in the lineup against Heppell.

I think Dursma could replace Hind though in the short term very interested how he turns out.

 

[Vindicater]

Have you been privy to the game plan ? There have been times they have been told not to go out of their lane and limit the turnovers.
I think people who do not like him get hung up on the times that he does not take an obvious target , which does happen , but then seem to ignore the fact that it does not always happen. In fact it happens less than when he does take good options. He is not as bad as people say IMO and there are some game plan factors in play.

Of course I am not privy to the game plan? Are you?

I think we will have to agree to disagree on Kelly. For me, he is a hard working and reliable defender who lacks the attacking skills/attitude a defender needs in the game today.

 

[ant555]

Of course I am not privy to the game plan? Are you?

I think we will have to agree to disagree on Kelly. For me, he is a hard working and reliable defender who lacks the attacking skills/attitude a defender needs in the game today.

Not all of it but it was a bit of a rhetorical question as you could see what they where doing and not just Kelly. Part of the plan to reduce turnovers was to play safe kick mark. It may not be sustainable long term but it is what it is. We do disagree on Kelly as although he will never be the dashy defender Redman is my view is he is not always lacking attacking skill.

 

[Vindicater]

Not all of it but it was a bit of a rhetorical question as you could see what they where doing and not just Kelly. Part of the plan to reduce turnovers was to play safe kick mark. It may not be sustainable long term but it is what it is. We do disagree on Kelly as although he will never be the dashy defender Redman is my view is he is not always lacking attacking skill.

I agree on the game plan being to play safe kick mark but I think that was a combination of two things that Brad came in and saw as a worry and did not have time enough time change.

1. Fitness. He did not want us getting into running races.

2. Skills. We did not have the skills to play attacking footy.

I am interested the most this season to see what he does with a proper preseason that he himself set up.

 

[MiguelM]

Yeah this has been a problem for a long time for the whole team.

We have struggled to break down opposition zones, forcing us to kick long down the line. A couple, like Merrett or McGrath, might take a bit more risk trying to hit 15-30m targets on the 45 but really its something that has been institutionalised into the team from Worsfold days.

It's the same when attempting to hit medium-long targets with kick-ins, both when defending and when taking them.

We need to get smarter with switching and hitting targets around CHB to open up the field of play.


In terms of our 2024 backline, I'm already on record as predicting:

• Heppell has one more good year in him
• Hind will fall off a cliff
• Kelly will return to form as our #1 lock down general defender

With that in mind...

FB: Kelly McKay Laverde
HB: Redman Ridley McGrath

Bench: Heppell

Rotations (<30% TOG spent in back line): Durham (from wing), Hobbs (mid/bench) and Caldwell (mid/bench)

I know both Hobbs and Caldwell showed a bit as resting forwards, but feel that was partly due to injuries. They are two of the three best shutdown mids we have (the other being Setters), so makes sense for them to drift back to pick up a resting mid. Setters prefer not to rotate. Keep him 80% target TOG as a pure mid.

And when we have that stop/start kicking down the line we have been poor at taking a contested mark. The opposition run it back with ease.

 

[ant555]

I agree on the game plan being to play safe kick mark but I think that was a combination of two things that Brad came in and saw as a worry and did not have time enough time change.

1. Fitness. He did not want us getting into running races.

2. Skills. We did not have the skills to play attacking footy.

I am interested the most this season to see what he does with a proper preseason that he himself set up.

I mentioned earlier in the year that the game plan info I had was the kick mark style was to reduce turnovers and stop the bleeding. It was about limiting kicks down the line to contests and opening up the middle of the ground . It worked for half the year but fell over once sides just ran heavy midfield zone or simply played tight man on man and strangled our options. They forced us to kick down the line as they knew our marking power was limited. The sides that did not defend as well as a team we got away with it. Allowing sides to move the footy down one side and cutting it off inside opposition 50 was the other basic part of the plan but eventually we had too many injuries and the young blokes got a bit tired.

I do not buy the fitness argument 100%. The players are not unfit bar a couple that had injury interruptions. Yes there was an element of preparation not being at the level needed but was more to do with recovery and lifestyle effecting the preparation. My opinion is we simply have not drafted the level of endurance runners that other clubs have. It has not been a box we have ticked off. You can only take a player so far when it comes to endurance. It is why they where keen on Duursma. He is an elite runner when he is fit.

The skill set is not terrible. It is middle of the road. We had games where we went high 70% early in the year. Skills always look bad when you play bad. Sure we need improvement but I would not say we do not have the skills to play attacking footy. We have lit games up this year just as many times as we have fallen over. A lot of our turnover issues are more a lack of confidence going forward due to our poor marking options and the ball just coming back the other way.

I am more interested in buy in to team defense. We have addressed FB. McKay should help a lot. We have picked up hopefully a long term part to some marking issues forward of the footy. We still need more but it is a start. What really has to happen is buy into team defense. No more half baked crap. Scott has to make a stance.

 

[Keystone agony]

Yeh skill aint the main issue with this group

Nic Martin and Zac Merrett would have to be some of the most elite users forward of the footy. Hinds been proven before obviousily off the half back line

 

[ghostdog]

Ive got Kelly best 22 over Heppell or Hind. Younger, competitor and has proven he can play lock down where the other 2 havent. Has always played within his limitations and can play small or medium and provides back up for the talls as he's a solid unit and as mentioned a proven hard running competitor firstly. Heppell id like to see mentoring Cox in the VFL for a halfback role. Hind and Heppell i see competing with Duursma for the running halfback/wing/half forward role from the bench. I think if Duursma is injury free he could trump the other 2 with both youth and talent. Its the same as Perkins and Stringer for me. Full strength id only pick 1 of them. Stringer is ahead on talent and production when fit, Perkins should get the spot if Stringer continues being lazy, injured and unfit.

I'd forgotten about Kelly completely. I can see the sense in Duursma and Hind competing for the same spot. Kelly isn't always slow to react - his last quarter against GC in R2(?) showed this when he needed to move the ball quickly - and we'll need a dour lockdown type to keep some forwards honest.

I'd also rather see Heppell in the VFL teaching. My main fear was the loss of his marking ability, but I think with Ridley and Baldwin, and potentially Duursma, we've got him covered.

 

[Keystone agony]

I think im in the boat of playing Laverde and Mcgrath to a degree as more lockdown defenders with Hind the higher up field rebound

Ideally all 7 can lockdown, intercept and rebound though

 

[Bjchan13]

I'd forgotten about Kelly completely. I can see the sense in Duursma and Hind competing for the same spot. Kelly isn't always slow to react - his last quarter against GC in R2(?) showed this when he needed to move the ball quickly - and we'll need a dour lockdown type to keep some forwards honest.

I'd also rather see Heppell in the VFL teaching. My main fear was the loss of his marking ability, but I think with Ridley and Baldwin, and potentially Duursma, we've got him covered.

No fears at all in moving on from Heppell for me. He did have good moments and good games throughout last year which surprised me a little. I think Brad will start him round 1 though.

 

[ghostdog]

I think im in the boat of playing Laverde and Mcgrath to a degree as more lockdown defenders with Hind the higher up field rebound

Ideally all 7 can lockdown, intercept and rebound though

I think McGrath is too valuable pushing up the field to remain as a lockdown type. It means his attacking skills are limited to winning contests / hard ball gets. When he pushes forward he supports in a kind of mopping up role to lock the ball in our fifty, and in spite of what people (including my frustrated self) think he can find targets going i50.

He can lockdown but I don't think it should be his role. I think that's Kelly's DNA.

 

[andleanback]

Mcgrath Mckay ridley
Redman baldwin Davey (will be heppell)

Laverde 7th for me

Hopefully Cox is used in the backs rotation

 

[Old man fletch]

Mcgrath Mckay ridley
Redman baldwin Davey (will be heppell)

Laverde 7th for me

Hopefully Cox is used in the backs rotation

Like this. Davey is the question mark, time will tell who gets that other rebounding role.

Agree Heppell is likely to be in the team for round 1. Would like to see Laverde take Heppells spot. Puts his body on the line and takes strong marks. What we lose in leadership and organisation, I think we gain in output. Baldwin looked comfortable directing in the VFL and his few stints at AFL level, so think he covers some of that

 

[Keystone agony]

Im ok with going with the senior experience to start the year in guys like

Heppell
Hind
Goldstein (Without Draper or to build Draper)

If theyre getting the job done then there arent any issues, if they arent then they are removed fairly quickly

For guys like
Baldwin
Davey
Duursma
Draper
Bryan

 

[Keystone agony]

I think McGrath is too valuable pushing up the field to remain as a lockdown type. It means his attacking skills are limited to winning contests / hard ball gets. When he pushes forward he supports in a kind of mopping up role to lock the ball in our fifty, and in spite of what people (including my frustrated self) think he can find targets going i50.

He can lockdown but I don't think it should be his role. I think that's Kelly's DNA.

Not enough quality offense/ground ball ability with

Mckay
Lav
Kelly
Ridley
Heppell

With Mcgrath and Redman

In the same side for me

Collingwood were so good because Moore, Howe, Maynard, N.Daicos, Quaynor, Markov have great kicking, ground ball, intercept and speed

Those 5 are a far cry from that

Mcgrath is Quaynor for me

Hind can do everything Markov can

 

[ghostdog]

Im ok with going with the senior experience to start the year in guys like

Heppell
Hind
Goldstein (Without Draper or to build Draper)

If theyre getting the job done then there arent any issues, if they arent then they are removed fairly quickly

For guys like
Baldwin
Davey
Duursma
Draper
Bryan

In the forwardline thread you've got Cox as a walk-up start ahead of Heppell, yet here's Heppell and no Cox in that second list at all. I'm guessing an oversight?

Not enough quality offense/ground ball ability with

Mckay
Lav
Kelly
Ridley
Heppell

With Mcgrath and Redman

In the same side for me

Collingwood were so good because Moore, Howe, Maynard, N.Daicos, Quaynor, Markov have great kicking, ground ball, intercept and speed

Those 5 are a far cry from that

Mcgrath is Quaynor for me

Hind can do everything Markov can

Over there you've got;
"Mcgrath - Mckay - Laverde
N.Cox - Ridley - Redman (Hind)"

I'm not sure what the point is that you're making here. Are you saying that Cox has more ground-ball ability than Dyson Heppell? ...and do you mean offensive ground-ball ability or ground-ball contested work, because obviously Kelly has that in spades. ...or do you mean that he back 7 as a whole don't have string enough offensive ability at ground level. Regardless, if this is your concern I'm flummoxed by the inclusion of Nik Cox so soon.

I see Heppell's spot up for grabs, potentially between any of Cox, Baldwin, Laverde or even Duursma. God knows where Zac Reid fits in with all this.

 

[ghostdog]

So, McKay and Reid sighted doing a lot of training together and with backline coaches. Interesting

 

[Keystone agony]

In the forwardline thread you've got Cox as a walk-up start ahead of Heppell, yet here's Heppell and no Cox in that second list at all. I'm guessing an oversight?

correct, over sight

Over there you've got;
"Mcgrath - Mckay - Laverde
N.Cox - Ridley - Redman (Hind)"

I'm not sure what the point is that you're making here. Are you saying that Cox has more ground-ball ability than Dyson Heppell? ...and do you mean offensive ground-ball ability or ground-ball contested work, because obviously Kelly has that in spades. ...or do you mean that he back 7 as a whole don't have string enough offensive ability at ground level. Regardless, if this is your concern I'm flummoxed by the inclusion of Nik Cox so soon.

I see Heppell's spot up for grabs, potentially between any of Cox, Baldwin, Laverde or even Duursma. God knows where Zac Reid fits in with all this.

Offense ability - intercept, rebound, dynamic, change lanes, ground ball, speed, kicking ect

Zac Reid needs to push out Laverde whilst keeping Baldwin out, but i suspect a FWD/RUCK role may be on the cards

 

[ant555]

So, McKay and Reid sighted doing a lot of training together and with backline coaches. Interesting

Not really that interesting. I would expect that the bloke they have wraps on would be working closely with the bloke the got to play FB. To me that is a pretty standard scenario despite my questions on Reid making it. They are still going to try and work to get the best results from him. It is January. No one at the club has said he will not play defense. It has been the opinion from a few of us bystanders.

 

[ghostdog]

Not really that interesting. I would expect that the bloke they have wraps on would be working closely with the bloke the got to play FB. To me that is a pretty standard scenario despite my questions on Reid making it. They are still going to try and work to get the best results from him. It is January. No one at the club has said he will not play defense. It has been the opinion from a few of us bystanders.

Lid is on, but when I read CJohns's description of them setting up together for drills, that combination of two 200cm+ defenders is interesting to me.

 

[ant555]

Lid is on, but when I read CJohns's description of them setting up together for drills, that combination of two 200cm+ defenders is interesting to me.

I just saw it as two defenders working together. Reid is still well and truly in Brad Scotts plans as a defender. They will 100% be looking at him to be in the side. The proof will be what is happening at the start of March. There will be training sessions where McKay works with other players and Reid does as well. There was no match sim. Despite my question marks on Reid I will certainly be happy if he has had a good enough pre season to be lining up next to McKay in round 1.

 

[ghostdog]

I just saw it as two defenders working together. Reid is still well and truly in Brad Scotts plans as a defender. They will 100% be looking at him to be in the side. The proof will be what is happening at the start of March. There will be training sessions where McKay works with other players and Reid does as well. There was no match sim. Despite my question marks on Reid I will certainly be happy if he has had a good enough pre season to be lining up next to McKay in round 1.

No doubt. I'm looking forward to seeing what other combos work together as well, with Baldwin, Cox etc. as well. A few weeks to go yet, but as you say, match sim will tell us more.

 

[Keystone agony]

Reid, Mckay
Ridley
Hind, Mcgrath, Redman, Heppell

Can absolutely work, dont doubt that