F1 The Wash Up - Previous 2024 Race Weekends

[Vader]

This is 100% McLaren team problem, not a Norris problem.

This situation should have never happened.

I'd say it was 50-50. You're right that McLaren shouldn't have created the situation in the first place, but Norris also needed to give the position back much quicker than he did. Norris really was behaving like a petulant child, not someone supporting a team member who has had his back on countless occasions already.

 

[Festerz]

Let's try to see it from Lando's perspective (bracing for dislikes):

• Oscar nailed the start, and overtook Lando fairly, no issues there
• He lucked out at the second pit stop, but this was because of the team not because of Lando's pace or Oscar's lack of.
• He is also closer to the WDC than Oscar (however unlikely or improbable it may be)
• Lando was having good pace and well on track for maximum points, this was not due to any fault on Oscar's part but rather being a beneficiary of the right strategy call from his team

From Oscar's perspective (I know we are going over the same things here):

• Oscar nailed the start, and overtook Lando fairly, no issues there
• McLaren (not Oscar, or Lando) made the call to give Lando, who was clear 2nd at the time, the undercut - this is where it falls apart
• He therefore deserved to win even if it's a bit 'hollow' as it was not due to Oscar's pace but rather Lando being ordered to, and McLaren made the wrong strategy call because it is almost customary that the lead car has first dibs on optimum strategy
• Oscar was informed about a swap therefore his pace was not as 'hot' as it could have been, no point sacrificing tires if your teammate up the road is being told to swap

Of course, the whole thing would have been avoided if Oscar pitted first for the last stint, but now we have this mess because McLaren botched it and ruined their own potentially perfect weekend with this unnecessary inter-driver argument.

Onwards to Belgium, imagine if we have a similar situation towards the end of Spa with Lando again P1 and Oscar well clear in P2 due to a botched strategy, there wouldn't be enough popcorn.

A reasonable take.

But I much preferred this one from you earlier...

HAHAHA DONE

P1ASTRI

LANDO STILL A CAMPAIGNER

Short and to the point with less diplomatic 'on the other hand' niceties.

 

[my name was taken]

On Piastri, Peter Windsor youtube was doing some serious mental gymnastics in support of Norris saying that Pastri should have re addressed on the first corner pass due to forcing Norris off the track LOL

Didn't Norris have 4 wheels on the track the whole way round lol

Was always going to run wide through that corner coming in off the racing line

 

[Vader]

On a slightly different (non-Piastri) note... How on Earth did Max escape a penalty for crashing into Lewis? Surely that was a slam-dunk "causing a collision" 5-second penalty, which would have pushed him down to 6th (behind Sainz)?

I get that the stewards wanted to look at it after the race, but there's no sign of the results having changed overnight, so I assume they chose not to apply a penalty?

 

[Festerz]

On a slightly different (non-Piastri) note... How on Earth did Max escape a penalty for crashing into Lewis? Surely that was a slam-dunk "causing a collision" 5-second penalty, which would have pushed him down to 6th (behind Sainz)?

I get that the stewards wanted to look at it after the race, but there's no sign of the results having changed overnight, so I assume they chose not to apply a penalty?

No further action. Amazing (but not surprising - would surely have been a grid place penalty for the next race if it was a lower order driver).



Edit: the dive bomb move that was deemed acceptable by the FIA stewards in case anyone missed it:

 

[Forward Press]

On a slightly different (non-Piastri) note... How on Earth did Max escape a penalty for crashing into Lewis? Surely that was a slam-dunk "causing a collision" 5-second penalty, which would have pushed him down to 6th (behind Sainz)?

I get that the stewards wanted to look at it after the race, but there's no sign of the results having changed overnight, so I assume they chose not to apply a penalty?

Because it's Max. What lesser drivers get grip drops and time penalties for, he gets a reprimand.

Helped by Lewis saying it was a racing incident.

 

[Forward Press]

We really don't know what Oscar has been saying over the radio. SKY don't broadcast all the team radio conversations, they are very selective. They obviously chose to broadcast a lot of the Lando conversations, but we don't know how many Piastri conversations they chose not to broadcast.

Yeah, I think some forget that the race broadcast is selective.

For example, people commonly think Lewis is less whiny the past few years but that may simply be because Mercedes are now no longer the fastest car and more interesting radio chatter is coming from other contending teams.

 

[gaskin]

I am glad I had the F1TV commentary for the race. Alex Jaques, Jolyon Palmer, and Coulthard were brilliant. The sooner Fox get rid of the Sky bullshit and get the official F1 commentary the better.

I did love how salty Lando was post race.

 

[Vader]

Part of me does wonder what the reaction on this board (notoriously pro Australian for obvious reasons) would have been if the roles were reversed and Oscar had to give back P1 to Lando after an undercut.

It's happened multiple times before, most notably earlier this year in Australia, where Piastri was told to let Lando through for 3rd.

 

[gaskin]

We really don't know what Oscar has been saying over the radio. SKY don't broadcast all the team radio conversations, they are very selective. They obviously chose to broadcast a lot of the Lando conversations, but we don't know how many Piastri conversations they chose not to broadcast.

Sky don't choose what is broadcast. FOM are in charge of the TV direction and what radio messages to put up. Sky just provide their own commentary and nothing else.

 

[Thistle]

Funny that if Norris did had the place back early and prove he was consistently faster McLaren may have let him race Piastri

 

[Vader]

No further action. Amazing (but not surprising - would surely have been a grid place penalty for the next race if it was a lower order driver).

View attachment 2055435

Edit: the dive bomb move that was deemed acceptable by the FIA stewards in case anyone missed it:

Unbelievable that they found Hamilton significantly to blame for Verstappen attempting a dive bomb, locking the brakes, and sliding into Hamilton - while Hamilton did nothing more than take his usual racing line through the corner.

 

[Vader]

Because it's Max. What lesser drivers get grip drops and time penalties for, he gets a reprimand.

Helped by Lewis saying it was a racing incident.

Lewis was incredibly gracious and generous. It was clearly 100% Max's fault, and deserving of a penalty.

 

[Vader]

Sky don't choose what is broadcast. FOM are in charge of the TV direction and what radio messages to put up. Sky just provide their own commentary and nothing else.

Fair enough. In that case just substitute FOM for Sky. Regardless, they are highly selective about which radio communications are/aren't broadcast. A lack of comms from one side doesn't mean there aren't any - it may just mean FOM have chosen not to broadcast them.

 

[Festerz]

Unbelievable that they found Hamilton significantly to blame for Verstappen attempting a dive bomb, locking the brakes, and sliding into Hamilton - while Hamilton did nothing more than take his usual racing line through the corner.

I think the post race video assessment from Antony Davidson (the best commentator sky has outside of Brundle imo) aligns with the FIA position pretty closely and is worth a read.

“Two things - why did the lock-up happen and who was at fault for the collision?

“As they head down the straight [Verstappen] is behind Lewis as they both overtake the Williams. Lewis ducks back towards the racing line, which you would expect.

“Then, I think, Lewis takes a slightly shallow approach to the corner. I do think there is a slightly early turn in, which catches Max out slightly.

“[Max] is going for the gap thinking ‘it will be straight’. Lewis goes in. At some point, you have to turn into the corner. That’s this grey area that all these drivers play around with.

"Max did it in Austria. Lewis was doing it here. You are making it uncomfortable for the driver trying to overtake you.

“They go onto the marbles, it’s very hard to slow down at this point. There is plenty of room, way more than a car’s width to the right-hand side.

“So, you can still go down the inside. But you’re carrying such speed now that you’ll probably lock up.

“That’s what happened. Not just one lock up. Both front wheels locked up. That makes the car go straight. Because the car goes straight, that’s the cause of collision.

“Lewis goes to turn in. But when it locks up for Max, it’s as if the car goes left. It doesn’t - it’s an optical illusion. When you get a double-front lock up, you have no steering. That’s what ultimately caught Lewis out.

“That’s why he didn’t turn out of the corner. Because you’re not expecting the car on the inside to suddenly go absolutely dead straight, as it did.

“When you see the amount of lock up and how far the car was about to go wide? It was a racing incident, I think. The main cause of collision was because of Max. But he was a little bit compromised going into the corner.

“It’s a grey area. Whether it’s a jink to your opponent to move out to overtake you, then you counteract. That’s quite different to a subtle turn in. But it is in the braking zone, but so is the entry to the corner.”

Davidson is obviously an ex F1 driver and still used as a prime simulator driver for the Mercedes f1 team so his view is always worth listening to. I've never heard him be biased towards any particular driver or team in his assessments despite his association with Mercedes.

 

[Jatz]

Part of me does wonder what the reaction on this board (notoriously pro Australian for obvious reasons) would have been if the roles were reversed and Oscar had to give back P1 to Lando after an undercut.

Yep, I absolutely get it. Go the Aussie. I love seeing Oscar win. But as I said, it's time for McLaren to really have a good look at this - they've got the opportunity for one of their drivers to reign supreme.

It might be time to give Oscar a heads up, for the last half of the season we are going to favour Lando as required. Help us get him there and then we reset in the offseason and you go back to genuinely competing against each other.

 

[Jatz]

Some say Verstappen has matured and is no longer the petulant teenage prodigy.

Others say Verstappen simply got away with it because his car was well ahead of the rest and that when he's dragged back to the rest of the pack, the true Max emerges - 'you yield or we crash'.

I think it's somewhere in between and this weekend was simply almost the worst possible race for him, short of a DNF.

I see both sides of it. As you say though, he's come out of this weekend looking absolutely terrible from all angles.

The 'you yield or we crash' tactic is just insane to me and I'm glad Lewis didn't just cave (and that is was Max coming off second best).

 

[happy_eagle]

Yep, I absolutely get it. Go the Aussie. I love seeing Oscar win. But as I said, it's time for McLaren to really have a good look at this - they've got the opportunity for one of their drivers to reign supreme.

It might be time to give Oscar a heads up, for the last half of the season we are going to favour Lando as required. Help us get him there and then we reset in the offseason and you go back to genuinely competing against each other.

Max would need a couple of DNFs for Lando to be a WDC chance.

 

[Jatz]

Lewis was incredibly gracious and generous. It was clearly 100% Max's fault, and deserving of a penalty.

Thought the official statement put out was interesting.

"Car 44 could've done more to avoid contact" was essentially the gist. Which I mean, sure. But why should he? He's on the racing line and is at the right speed for the corner. It's not up to him to facilitate Mad Max's crazy move.

Seems like a comment to appease Max as much as anything. Adds nothing to what actually occurred.

 

[DamoESP]

Davidson is obviously an ex F1 driver and still used as a prime simulator driver for the Mercedes f1 team so his view is always worth listening to. I've never heard him be biased towards any particular driver or team in his assessments despite his association with Mercedes.

That's a fair assessment, the only thing I've ever seen Davidson be bias against are Groundhogs....

 

[Jatz]

Max would need a couple of DNFs for Lando to be a WDC chance.

I don't disagree but with the way he's driving, that's entirely possible. It's why I think they need to give Lando the best chance to keep applying pressure. The cracks are beginning to appear...

 

[Vader]

Thought the official statement put out was interesting.

"Car 44 could've done more to avoid contact" was essentially the gist. Which I mean, sure. But why should he? He's on the racing line and is at the right speed for the corner. It's not up to him to facilitate Mad Max's crazy move.

Seems like a comment to appease Max as much as anything. Adds nothing to what actually occurred.

I thought that line was incredibly disingenuous - assigning most of the blame on Lewis, for Max's massive **** up.

God knows I'm no fan of Lewis, but this was 100% on Max.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

Some say Verstappen has matured and is no longer the petulant teenage prodigy.

Others say Verstappen simply got away with it because his car was well ahead of the rest and that when he's dragged back to the rest of the pack, the true Max emerges - 'you yield or we crash'.

I think it's somewhere in between and this weekend was simply almost the worst possible race for him, short of a DNF.

I've liked Max through his dominate times. But when he's been challenged or had any little niggles with the car he's not shining himself in a great light this year.
Just expects things to be perfection and when they're not he just cant move past it.

Because it's Max. What lesser drivers get grip drops and time penalties for, he gets a reprimand.

Helped by Lewis saying it was a racing incident.

Surprised by that (Lewis calling it a racing incident). Seemed like a pretty clear f*** up by Max.

 

[Jatz]

I've always loved Hamilton so not sure if this is just me but it seems to me like he's very quickly moving into the territory Vettel did once he got older.

Fans seem to be warming to him more than I've ever seen. Not sure if it's that he's just not winning anymore but I've noticed a big shift in people's attitude towards him.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Part of me does wonder what the reaction on this board (notoriously pro Australian for obvious reasons) would have been if the roles were reversed and Oscar had to give back P1 to Lando after an undercut.

Oscar: "Copy"
(Pulls over on the next straight, slots in behind Lando)
Engineer: "Thanks Oscar"

Bigfooty: McLaren ALWAYS favour Lando, it's not fair to Oscar, he should look to get out of his contract, etc, etc.