2nd Test Border Gavaskar Trophy December 6-10 1430hrs @ Adelaide Oval

[Bedi]

Doing so just increases the chance that your designated batsmen get stranded at the end of the innings. You have Cummins and Starc open and someone like a Head, Marsh or Carey are likely to get stuck at the crease with room in the tank. They're now coming in at 7, 8 or 9, and are only a wicket or two away from the innings over.

normally that's the case, but not our bloody hack batsman! They're usually long gone by the time our bowlers us saving our arses. But yes, stranding a quality batsman could cost a side 50-100 runs

 

[PhatBoy]

i reckon opening the batting with tailenders to take off the new ball shine is something we've never seen before. I wouldn't open with bunnies but someone like Starc and Cummins could have its merits.

Even that to a minor extent was done by Bradman on a glue pot in the uncovered days with Chuck Fleetwood-Smith but yes I’ve actually often pondered the same thing during potentially tricky chases of 180-220: why not send in a Southee-type that you could never ever depend on if the going got tight towards the end but could quite easily clobber you an invaluable quick 30 to get things rolling at the top and smack some life out of the ball when it’s doing a bit

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Even that to a minor extent was done by Bradman on a glue pot in the uncovered days with Chuck Fleetwood-Smith but yes I’ve actually often pondered the same thing during potentially tricky chases of 180-220: why not send in a Southee-type that you could never ever depend on if the going got tight towards the end but could quite easily clobber you an invaluable quick 30 to get things rolling at the top and smack some life out of the ball when it’s doing a bit

It’s a funny one Phat. Lyon and Starc opening, even if they only lasted 10 overs, you might have 35 on the board and the attack would certainly be less effective.

As a bowler I always fancied myself as a bat, and truth be told every now and again I delivered. Consistency was the issue, however, one must kiss a few frogs to get a prince.

 

[sosos]

The funny thing about the monster bats these days, heavier and with extra power built into the blade that the older generations never had access to, is the flourishing bat movements prior to the ball delivery. Completely irrelevant to the actual bat/ball contact moment that triggers runs.

Small backlift, straight bat, and just move the weight forward a little and the ball will speed to the boundary.

Regarding Vaughan's suggestion of 4 day tests, I love seeing bowlers bowling sides out, rather than batting for days, as a spectacle.

But test cricket can be a 5 day grind to a gripping crescendo where all results can still be in play in the last hour of 30.

There's no higher accolade for a test team than to play in one of those. And I would never support anything that could diminish that kind of game. 4 days always means one team has been skittled twice.

Would also destroy the chances of seeing top order batsman compiling double and triple centuries, because what captain would ever let a 1st innings go for more than two days?

 

[Gough]

Even that to a minor extent was done by Bradman on a glue pot in the uncovered days with Chuck Fleetwood-Smith but yes I’ve actually often pondered the same thing during potentially tricky chases of 180-220: why not send in a Southee-type that you could never ever depend on if the going got tight towards the end but could quite easily clobber you an invaluable quick 30 to get things rolling at the top and smack some life out of the ball when it’s doing a bit

When Chuck Fleetwood-Smith was down on his luck and living rough it was Ian Chappell who rallied the troops to help him.

 

[hugecannon]

Carey was in cracking form in the Shield so we should expect some good results from him over the BGS.

My take on Carey - I actually think he's more of a middle order bat, which is where he's flourished for South Australia. I don't think he's that great batting with the tail.

If Webster came in for Marsh I'd love to see Carey at 6 and Webster at 7. Webster always looks to be an absolute stud batting with the tail (although Tassie seem to play a fair few bowling all-rounders, which helps) while I always feel like Carey struggles to find the right momentum when wickets are falling at the other end or when he feels he needs to hit out. He's a naturally attacking strokemaker IMO and would be perfectly suited at 5. He gets inside his own head too much at 7.

I always felt Carey batted better when he came in up the order in ODIs as well.

Are you thinking put him at 5, Head at 6 then maybe a Hardie/Webster or J Edwards coming in at 7?

 

[MisterMarcus]

i reckon opening the batting with tailenders to take off the new ball shine is something we've never seen before. I wouldn't open with bunnies but someone like Starc and Cummins could have its merits.

I remember NSW sent Nathan Bracken in at 3 in a shield match one time.

Wasn’t as a night watchman either.

 

[PhatBoy]

It’s a funny one Phat. Lyon and Starc opening, even if they only lasted 10 overs, you might have 35 on the board and the attack would certainly be less effective.

As a bowler I always fancied myself as a bat, and truth be told every now and again I delivered. Consistency was the issue, however, one must kiss a few frogs to get a prince.

Yeah I was probably a batsman in lower grades and as I got into higher ones I realised it probably wouldn’t cut it and had to become a bowler and ended up being a bowler who could bat a bit and my only chances to ply my trade up the order were when the openers were away or something and no one wanted to put their hand up so someone had to deputise. It worked a few times - my top score and lone chance for a first grade tonne (in a decent comp anyway) came with a fairly rapid 71 midway through our innings and I choked it big time.

It earned me 3-4 more goes at it and…..

Well it’s fair to say my opening days were behind me after that

 

[Daniel B]

I remember NSW sent Nathan Bracken in at 3 in a shield match one time.

I'd love to know more about this.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I'd love to know more about this.

IIRC it was a couple of overs before lunch break. So he was like a night watchman protecting the batters, but for lunch instead.

I don’t know if they genuinely got confused and thought it was stumps…or they were trying to make a “lunch watchman “ a thing….

 

[BGman]

The funny thing about the monster bats these days, heavier and with extra power built into the blade that the older generations never had access to, is the flourishing bat movements prior to the ball delivery. Completely irrelevant to the actual bat/ball contact moment that triggers runs.

Small backlift, straight bat, and just move the weight forward a little and the ball will speed to the boundary.

Regarding Vaughan's suggestion of 4 day tests, I love seeing bowlers bowling sides out, rather than batting for days, as a spectacle.

But test cricket can be a 5 day grind to a gripping crescendo where all results can still be in play in the last hour of 30.

There's no higher accolade for a test team than to play in one of those. And I would never support anything that could diminish that kind of game. 4 days always means one team has been skittled twice.

Would also destroy the chances of seeing top order batsman compiling double and triple centuries, because what captain would ever let a 1st innings go for more than two days?

 

[Roysforever]

IIRC it was a couple of overs before lunch break. So he was like a night watchman protecting the batters, but for lunch instead.

I don’t know if they genuinely got confused and thought it was stumps…or they were trying to make a “lunch watchman “ a thing….

I vaguely recall the NSW suggestion was that the pitch would be better for batting latter on so Bracken went in at number 3. All things considered the elevation was a success. As such the Aussies tried the same tactic in the Sydney test match later that summer. Andy Bichel was elevated to number 3 in one our innings and ended up top scoring.

Update: Found the scorecard with Bichel at 3: https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...alia-vs-england-5th-test-64013/full-scorecard

 

[corbies]

IIRC it was a couple of overs before lunch break. So he was like a night watchman protecting the batters, but for lunch instead.

I don’t know if they genuinely got confused and thought it was stumps…or they were trying to make a “lunch watchman “ a thing….

I can remember you mentioning this at some point before and I went looking for the match. The only one that I could find was NSWs 2nd innings of this match and Bracken comes out at 3 just after tea some 32 overs before stumps on day 2.

NSW vs VIC Cricket Scorecard at Sydney, December 19 - 21, 2002

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get New South Wales vs Victoria cricket scorecard, Pura Cup 2002/03 dated December 19 - 21, 2002.

www.espncricinfo.com

However it doesn't match to your memory of the lunch watchman so maybe I can't find the match you're referring to.

 

[Bletch]

The funny thing about the monster bats these days, heavier and with extra power built into the blade that the older generations never had access to, is the flourishing bat movements prior to the ball delivery. Completely irrelevant to the actual bat/ball contact moment that triggers runs.

Small backlift, straight bat, and just move the weight forward a little and the ball will speed to the boundary.

Regarding Vaughan's suggestion of 4 day tests, I love seeing bowlers bowling sides out, rather than batting for days, as a spectacle.

But test cricket can be a 5 day grind to a gripping crescendo where all results can still be in play in the last hour of 30.

There's no higher accolade for a test team than to play in one of those. And I would never support anything that could diminish that kind of game. 4 days always means one team has been skittled twice.

Would also destroy the chances of seeing top order batsman compiling double and triple centuries, because what captain would ever let a 1st innings go for more than two days?

Vaughan is just parroting his employer's wishes. Same as Tubby did. And pretty much any of the TV commentators. The broadcasting networks don't want to commit to 5 days. I'd be more interested to hear opinions of ex-test players who don't have TV gigs, see what they think. I'd bet the resounding answer would be to stick with the 5-day format.

 

[Cleavy]

I can remember you mentioning this at some point before and I went looking for the match. The only one that I could find was NSWs 2nd innings of this match and Bracken comes out at 3 just after tea some 32 overs before stumps on day 2.

NSW vs VIC Cricket Scorecard at Sydney, December 19 - 21, 2002

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get New South Wales vs Victoria cricket scorecard, Pura Cup 2002/03 dated December 19 - 21, 2002.

www.espncricinfo.com

However it doesn't match to your memory of the lunch watchman so maybe I can't find the match you're referring to.

that was a good result

 

[big_e]

Vaughan is just parroting his employer's wishes. Same as Tubby did. And pretty much any of the TV commentators. The broadcasting networks don't want to commit to 5 days. I'd be more interested to hear opinions of ex-test players who don't have TV gigs, see what they think. I'd bet the resounding answer would be to stick with the 5-day format.

A test lasting until day 5 is a rarity, though.

The case of the shrinking Test match

From an average of 331 overs per decisive Test match in the 1990s, the figure has dropped to 295 since the start of 2020

www.espncricinfo.com

Also it's a fairly heroic assumption to say that a test that lasts until day 5 is a better test match. I dare say the number of five-day tests where all results are possible on the fifth afternoon would be small.

 

[Cleavy]

Gabba pitch to have traditional life and bounce: curator | cricket.com.au

Australia and India are set to be greeted with a traditional Gabba wicket for the third Test,…

www.cricket.com.au

let's see how the pitch goes...

 

[010203]

Gabba pitch to have traditional life and bounce: curator | cricket.com.au

Australia and India are set to be greeted with a traditional Gabba wicket for the third Test,…

www.cricket.com.au

let's see how the pitch goes...

I hope it's better than the pitch there for the test against South Africa in 2022. Nobody wants a road but that pitch was too far the other way.

 

[Rookie]

Are you thinking put him at 5, Head at 6 then maybe a Hardie/Webster or J Edwards coming in at 7?

Head's a gun at five, I wouldn't move him unless it's on the subcontinent. I just think it would be a more natural position for Carey than seven. Batting Carey at six and the all-rounder at 7 seems a good compromise.

Webster's great with the lower order, Hardie's more a top order bat, I haven't seen enough about Edwards to comment.

 

[Cleavy]

If Hazlewood is passed fit, I'd want an all-rounder who can bowl in the team in case he doesn't last the match.

 

[Trojan90]

But…

Mitchell Marsh 'ready to bowl as much' as Australia need him to in Brisbane

"Right now, the back is feeling as good as it has felt," Marsh says ahead of the Brisbane Test against India

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

But…

Mitchell Marsh 'ready to bowl as much' as Australia need him to in Brisbane

"Right now, the back is feeling as good as it has felt," Marsh says ahead of the Brisbane Test against India

www.espncricinfo.com

No confidence by Cummins on his bowling abilities with only 2 overs bowled in this innings and his batting abilities. Surely he doesn't stay in the side for the next test or any future tests.

Is there no other all-rounders tearing it up in the domestic leagues?

 

[Lunchtime]

Vaughan is just parroting his employer's wishes. Same as Tubby did. And pretty much any of the TV commentators. The broadcasting networks don't want to commit to 5 days. I'd be more interested to hear opinions of ex-test players who don't have TV gigs, see what they think. I'd bet the resounding answer would be to stick with the 5-day format.

Taylor has been mentioning 4 day Test matches for the past 20 odd years. It hasn't been a new thing for him to say.

 

[celestial]

Just go out there and play. They have had enough time for lunch. This is where the cricket laws must have some common sense baked into it.