Player Watch #34: Jack Graham - MOVED TO WCE - PICK 42 Received

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Jack Graham is about our 25th rank of our magnets to shuffle on the board.
UNLESS its wet or we are trying to blanket/thwart an oppositions game plan or style, only then or to cover injury should he come into best 22 calculations. the frantic pace of the game has made him almost obsolete because he aint strong overhead like a lincoln mccarthy or 60m+ dual sided kick like shorty.
 
59Stanley said:
Why not check him out as a pure tagger ?
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Way too slow for that role in today's game. If we were going to adapt a tagging role i reckon KMac would be the man.
Again we can't carry all of KMAC, Pickett, JGTI and Hopper in the one side.
 
Dees haven't tagged since Yze arrived so I doubt we will start now. If we do want a tagger it'd be James Harmes IMO.
 

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Its not like he hasnt played high level footy before so he deserves to see what a new coach can do with him. We also missed the boat twice when his value was much higher so its a no brainer that he stays on. Maybe its to play pure mid in the VFL and come in when called upon.

Players like Ross and Graham get ****ed around so much. Play AFL on a flank then get dropped to pure mid and dominate VFL. Must be hard on them.
 
Morro said:
Its not like he hasnt played high level footy before so he deserves to see what a new coach can do with him. We also missed the boat twice when his value was much higher so its a no brainer that he stays on. Maybe its to play pure mid in the VFL and come in when called upon.

Players like Ross and Graham get ****ed around so much. Play AFL on a flank then get dropped to pure mid and dominate VFL. Must be hard on them.
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Well, Yze has said he plans to train players up in certain roles and they wont be shuffled around, or that’s been my interpretation of what he’s said. Might suit some players like Graham and KMac
 
tigerfan1961 said:
Well, Yze has said he plans to train players up in certain roles and they wont be shuffled around, or that’s been my interpretation of what he’s said. Might suit some players like Graham and KMac
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Yeah I am hanging my hat on the statement also.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
so what role does Graham train for?

And if it's mid, who's spot in the 23 does he take?
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Graham has played high half forward flank pretty much since he came into the side. He covers for Martin when Martin is on ball because Martin does not go past the half way line. Lambert used to do similarly. That is why he is such a gut runner, has the licence to pretty much run the lines as he pleases. Most of his possessions come from running forward down the line handball receive or loose ball.

He needs to be in top shape to do that job, which he hasn't really been for a few years with any consistency. I would right him off if he has a great preseason.
 
Grrr said:
Graham has played high half forward flank pretty much since he came into the side. He covers for Martin when Martin is on ball because Martin does not go past the half way line. Lambert used to do similarly. That is why he is such a gut runner, has the licence to pretty much run the lines as he pleases. Most of his possessions come from running forward down the line handball receive or loose ball.

He needs to be in top shape to do that job, which he hasn't really been for a few years with any consistency. I would right him off if he has a great preseason.
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I think he is a terrible option for the HF role TBH.

He either earns his spot as a first choice mid, or he plays 2's.

I acknowledge he tries and works his arse off, but he was being asked to do something he's not capable off.
Some of these limitations might be why he slipped to the 50's or 60's on draft night.

Maybe we absolutely milked the best out of him already, and got more than we bargained for given pick 50/60, but also maybe it's time to cut and run.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
I think he is a terrible option for the HF role TBH.

He either earns his spot as a first choice mid, or he plays 2's.

I acknowledge he tries and works his arse off, but he was being asked to do something he's not capable off.
Some of these limitations might be why he slipped to the 50's or 60's on draft night.

Maybe we absolutely milked the best out of him already, and got more than we bargained for given pick 50/60, but also maybe it's time to cut and run.
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I agree with all this until i re-watch the 2017 season where he was excellent as a pressure, goal kicking forward & managed to snag 3 in a GF. Townsend played the same role and did it well and has about the same skill,speed set etc.

Graham probably requires the same treatment Dan got when his career started to spiral. He needs to be told "this is going to be your role, or you have no role" & given time in the Pre-Season, VFL then AFL to prove he is capable of that role.

He can;t play out his entire career off the bench like he is. he is getting too old to be that, he is literally taking games off Sonsie when he does that as those roles are perfect for your young players, not your peak age blokes
 
RJK Tiger said:
I agree with all this until i re-watch the 2017 season where he was excellent as a pressure, goal kicking forward & managed to snag 3 in a GF. Townsend played the same role and did it well and has about the same skill,speed set etc.

Graham probably requires the same treatment Dan got when his career started to spiral. He needs to be told "this is going to be your role, or you have no role" & given time in the Pre-Season, VFL then AFL to prove he is capable of that role.

He can;t play out his entire career off the bench like he is. he is getting too old to be that, he is literally taking games off Sonsie when he does that as those roles are perfect for your young players, not your peak age blokes
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you mean the 5 games he played (not the whole season)... and while his 3 in the GF were great, they were playing a run with role on Sloan, not HFF. And he only kicked 2 other goals in other 4 games.

And he was 18 then, so expected to have a smaller role with limited impact.

7 seasons later, you would expect greater impact, but we didn't see it.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
you mean the 5 games he played (not the whole season)... and while his 3 in the GF were great, they were playing a run with role on Sloan, not HFF. And he only kicked 2 other goals in other 4 games.

And he was 18 then, so expected to have a smaller role with limited impact.

7 seasons later, you would expect greater impact, but we didn't see it.
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Agree. The role Townsend played that year & even to a lesser extend Caddy in 2018 he "might" have the potential for, but i still dont really see it. He is not good enough for a starting "middle" role, so what position is left for him?

He would suck as a defender. Too slow to be a run with tagger. Too slow to possibly be a potent pressure forward, unless playing the bull role Townsend adopted in 2017.

Realistically we need to trade him tbh
 
RJK Tiger said:
Agree. The role Townsend played that year & even to a lesser extend Caddy in 2018 he "might" have the potential for, but i still dont really see it. He is not good enough for a starting "middle" role, so what position is left for him?

He would suck as a defender. Too slow to be a run with tagger. Too slow to possibly be a potent pressure forward, unless playing the bull role Townsend adopted in 2017.

Realistically we need to trade him tbh
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And this is kinda my point.

I actually like JG, but I also recognise where he's at. At the moment, I don't think he commands a midfield role, and trying to turn him into a HFF (like we did with Cotch) just to fit him into the team has proven it backfires more times than not.

So either he goes back to the VFL and earns a mid spot over a current mid, or he looks for opportunities elsewhere...

The harsh view is, for the club to get something out of it, a trade may be best, to get something in return (to bring in a player, or package up the pick for something better). But having someone with his work ethic in the VFL teaching the kids who are just missing our wouldn't be such a bad thing, as his pace won't be exposed as much in the VFL
 

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Or perhaps we just wait and see what the new coach has planned for Jack? He’s at least earnt that right surely with what he’s given this club, particularly as he’s not that old.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
I think he is a terrible option for the HF role TBH.

He either earns his spot as a first choice mid, or he plays 2's.

I acknowledge he tries and works his arse off, but he was being asked to do something he's not capable off.
Some of these limitations might be why he slipped to the 50's or 60's on draft night.

Maybe we absolutely milked the best out of him already, and got more than we bargained for given pick 50/60, but also maybe it's time to cut and run.
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What do you mean not capable of, he has been playing high half forward pretty much all his career, what do you mean he can't do it.
The last two season in particular he hasn't played well, he had a toe complaint that he carried all year in 22 and this season he came in underdone.

I am not Graham fan and he is not in my best 22, but I do recognise that he has played some good football over the years, mainly in the role I mentioned with stints through the middle. Don't think he played at all in the midfield this year due to being so much like Hopper and Taranto. He has no chance of making in the midfield down the track either. If he gets cherry ripe fit he may surprise, that to me is his only hope.
 
Grrr said:
What do you mean not capable of, he has been playing high half forward pretty much all his career, what do you mean he can't do it.
The last two season in particular he hasn't played well, he had a toe complaint that he carried all year in 22 and this season he came in underdone.

I am not Graham fan and he is not in my best 22, but I do recognise that he has played some good football over the years, mainly in the role I mentioned with stints through the middle. Don't think he played at all in the midfield this year due to being so much like Hopper and Taranto. He has no chance of making in the midfield down the track either. If he gets cherry ripe fit he may surprise, that to me is his only hope.
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He played HF as a kid in 2017.

But he played through the middle for 2018-2020, and don't get me wrong, he was good too.
Lambert was still playing his HF role through those years, and the other HF was one of our pressure forwards, so he wasn't playing HF.

Last couple of years he's gone to HF, and been average at best, with a few games thrown in.

Personally, I reckon Dimma killed him playing him in round 1 off an injury with no form this year.

His best is as a mid, but bringing in TT and Hop, and hopefully with Sonsie and Dow coming through, I don't see a spot for him.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
He played HF as a kid in 2017.

But he played through the middle for 2018-2020, and don't get me wrong, he was good too.
Lambert was still playing his HF role through those years, and the other HF was one of our pressure forwards, so he wasn't playing HF.

Last couple of years he's gone to HF, and been average at best, with a few games thrown in.

Personally, I reckon Dimma killed him playing him in round 1 off an injury with no form this year.

His best is as a mid, but bringing in TT and Hop, and hopefully with Sonsie and Dow coming through, I don't see a spot for him.
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We must be watching different games. During our premiership years, our centre/main mids in order where Martin, Cotchin, Prestia, Edwards, Bolton. Graham might have been next, but spend a lot of every game half forward. He played almost the same role as Lambert because that was our game plan, put our half forwards up the ground and surge forward. Leave Martin forward.

Graham's career contested ball and clearances are low, 6 per game compared to Edwards 7.6, Prestia 9.7, Cotchin 10.66. He also went at only 1.8 clearances per game which isn't much. Prestia and Cotchin 4.7.

The only stats I could find were the 2022 stats, as you acknowledge, not his best year, the Centre square attendees in 2022 Cotchin - 206, Bolton 170, Prestia 142, Short 80, Dow 79, Edwards 72 then Graham 66.
 
Tigerbob said:
This is interesting. Rewatched a game or two from 2018 as I remember making a comment at a club function Graham would be leading the best and fairest but then got injured badly against the Crows if memory serves me correct?

When played as an inside bull that year, he was dominant in his pressure and pushing the ball forward. He was one of our better players in only his second year.

He’s been mismanaged by Dimma and Mini now playing a stupid role. Wonder if new coach will play him in his proper role now he’s got a contract? Is it pointless because we overspent on two exact types?

This is part of the problem our list management group have caused.

2018 H&A was probably our finest and he was a major part of that.
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Which part of this 2018 season would he have been leading our BnF as an “inside bull”?

A single game of over 20 disposals over 23 games.

Before you think that you’re thinking of another season, you aren’t, each season of his career is pretty similar.
 
Old M8 said:
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Which part of this 2018 season would he have been leading our BnF as an “inside bull”?

A single game of over 20 disposals over 23 games.

Before you think that you’re thinking of another season, you aren’t, each season of his career is pretty similar.
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SuperCoach has a lot to answer for.

Club(s) look at a lot more than stats when measuring how vital they are to results.

He was absolutely one of our Better players that year.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
He played HF as a kid in 2017.

But he played through the middle for 2018-2020, and don't get me wrong, he was good too.
Lambert was still playing his HF role through those years, and the other HF was one of our pressure forwards, so he wasn't playing HF.

Last couple of years he's gone to HF, and been average at best, with a few games thrown in.

Personally, I reckon Dimma killed him playing him in round 1 off an injury with no form this year.

His best is as a mid, but bringing in TT and Hop, and hopefully with Sonsie and Dow coming through, I don't see a spot for him.
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Bringing in both TT and Hop killed of JG's footy career...and Dimma/Mini played him into the ground this year...mismanaged!
 
59Stanley said:
Why not check him out as a pure tagger ?
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His opponent would lose him when they spread. Don't reckon he's quick enough off the mark to be an effective tagger anymore.
 

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Player Watch #34: Jack Graham - MOVED TO WCE - PICK 42 Received

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