Player Watch #4 Dustin Martin GOAT and King of Punt Rd - OFFICIALLY RETIRED

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First game i HAVEN'T WATCHED FOR A LONG TIME. I just knew wed spud it up and didn't need any memories off it.
My memories were off the crowd, the day, Dusty's first goal, the interview, the chairing him off and the night out that followed.........i couldn't give two shits about the result.

I was there for his first game and his 300th.....that's memories.

Maybe some you people need to stop taking football so serious, it's just a game.
 

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I really don't get this annual 'Dusty is in poor form and should retire' nonsense.

If the great man does retire, it'll be by choice, not on the basis of his current form.

The last two seasons there's been supposedly massive question marks over his form, all the stats wheeled out etc., last year he finished off so well he was in AA discussions and deserved to be picked on 2nd half of the year form. In a bottom-8 side.

This year he's shown glimpses of the same form and there's plenty of footy left to play this year. He may not quite be the dominant player of yesteryear who can turn games single-handedly for multiple quarters, but it's pretty obvious he's still got a heap to contribute and is loving playing footy with his mates.

Put simply, if those mates were getting the ball to him more often in better places, he'd be pumping out better stats.

But what really baffles me with these endless annual 'he's cooked' assertions, is that year after year, throughout his career (as any fantasy footy player will tell you! ;)), Dusty has rarely played his best football in the first half of a season.

Like all champions and better than any modern AFL champion, he builds into the season, then peaks when it matters. :thumbsu:
 
This really is a quality video put out by the club and so much better than the conventional AFL-media lead interviews most big game players do in the lead up. Seeing some of the older teammates at the end of the video, including Cousins was also great. Was also good to see Lids didn't go to the zoo.


Nice video. It was good too see the team sit together and reflect on Martin's career.
 
I really don't get this annual 'Dusty is in poor form and should retire' nonsense.

If the great man does retire, it'll be by choice, not on the basis of his current form.

The last two seasons there's been supposedly massive question marks over his form, all the stats wheeled out etc., last year he finished off so well he was in AA discussions and deserved to be picked on 2nd half of the year form. In a bottom-8 side.

This year he's shown glimpses of the same form and there's plenty of footy left to play this year. He may not quite be the dominant player of yesteryear who can turn games single-handedly for multiple quarters, but it's pretty obvious he's still got a heap to contribute and is loving playing footy with his mates.

Put simply, if those mates were getting the ball to him more often in better places, he'd be pumping out better stats.

But what really baffles me with these endless annual 'he's cooked' assertions, is that year after year, throughout his career (as any fantasy footy player will tell you! ;)), Dusty has rarely played his best football in the first half of a season.

Like all champions and better than any modern AFL champion, he builds into the season, then peaks when it matters. :thumbsu:


Everyone agree's its his choice. The only difference is some are thinking or hoping he chooses to retire sooner than later.

A lot of great players don't know when to retire and play 1 season too many. Grimes is a good example of that this year. And when that season is almost guaranteed to be a bottom 4 one again, what good can come from it unless he really needs the extra years income, which i strongly doubt.

No one in there right mind would say or suggest the club should just retire him against his will - the decision is obviously his.
 
This really is a quality video put out by the club and so much better than the conventional AFL-media lead interviews most big game players do in the lead up. Seeing some of the older teammates at the end of the video, including Cousins was also great. Was also good to see Lids didn't go to the zoo.


Ngl Cousins looks well in that vid. Seems like a detox of the Wet Toast E-girls is all he needed.
 
Something I just posted on the main board in response to another poster, to give a little greater clarity to where Dusty's finals deeds fit in v all other AFL players over the last 12 seasons....


My post did bear a relationship to what you wrote. Before I get onto settling this question once and for all, I will correct you on Dangerfield being voted BOG by the coaches in 2022, this was not the case. He was awarded 8 votes as the unanimous 2nd BOG to Isaac Smith who got the maximum 10 votes. Dangerfield however did win the Ayres Medal for best in the finals series.

But let's have a proper look at this so we can understand where Dusty's GF performances sit compared to other players seen as being BOG in Grand Finals since 2012. There are 3 main credible methods of recognising who has played best in Grand Finals.

Norm Smith Medal votes, voted on by a selection of 5 football people, some of whom can be journalists, and ex-players/coaches, none of whom should be especially connected to any of the teams or players participating.

AFLCA(Coaches) votes. Ostensibly voted on by the head coaches of the 2 competing teams, more likely a consensus of the coaching panels of the 2 competing teams thoughts on which players would be thought to have played best under traditional voting systems, but with an influence of the inside knowledge of the coaches understanding the player's roles and how they affect their team's fortunes.

Official player ratings. An objective system that awards and deducts points for various actions each player performs according to the perceived value those actions would normally have to his team.

They are all constructed differently and produced by different people with different roles in the sport. Coaches votes have been available since 2016. Player ratings since 2012. Norm Smith Medal votes since 1979. So let's put into a table everything since 2012...



YearNorm Smith Medallist & votesNorm Smith votes of any player voted best under ALL other methodsTop Coaches VotesCoaches votes of any player voted best under ANY other methodsTop Player RatingPlayer rating and ranking of any player voted best under ALL other methodsGary Ayres Medal
2012Ryan O'Keefe(12 votes)McVeigh 1(5th BOG)
Franklin 5(=3rd BOG)
n/an/aJarrad McVeigh/Lance Franklin(21.3)O'Keefe 14.6(11th ranked)n/a
2013Brian Lake(12 votes)Johnson 0 votes (not in top 5 BOG)n/an/aMichael Johnson(22.7)Lake 17.1(3rd ranked)n/a
2014Luke Hodge(10 votes)Langford 1 vote(=4th BOG)n/an/aWill Langford(21.7)Hodge 18.4(5th ranked)n/a
2015Cyril Rioli(13 votes)Smith 1 vote(=5th BOG)n/an/aIsaac Smith(19.4)Rioli 13.2(11th BOG)n/a
2016Jason Johannisen(8 votes)Bontempelli 0 votes(not in top 4 BOG)Jason Johannisen(9 votes)Bontempelli 0 votes(not in top 7 BOG)Marcus Bontempelli(28.0)Johannisen 10.4(=20th BOG)Josh Kennedy(Sydney version)
2017Dustin Martin (13 votes)Houli 10 votes(2nd BOG)Bachar Houli(10 votes)Martin 8 votes(2nd BOG)Dustin Martin(30.9)Houli 7.5(29th BOG)Dustin Martin
2018Luke Shuey(11 votes)Luke Shuey(10 votes)Luke Shuey(35.7)Steele Sidebottom
2019Dustin Martin (15 votes)Dustin Martin(10 votes)Dustin Martin (22.8)Dustin Martin
2020Dustin Martin(15 votes)Dustin Martin(10 votes)Dustin Martin(32.1*)Dustin Martin
2021Christian Petracca(15 votes)Christian Petracca(10 votes)Christian Petracca(28.8)Jack Macrae
2022Isaac Smith(14 votes)Warner(0 votes - not in top 5 BOG)Isaac Smith(10 votes)Warner 0 votes(not in top 6 BOG)Chad Warner(29.9)Smith 25.2(2nd BOG)Patrick Dangerfield
2023Bobby Hill(15 votes)DeGoey(0 votes - not in top 6 BOG)Bobby Hill(10 votes)DeGoey 0 votes(not in top 7 BOG)Jordan DeGoey(22.3)Hill 12.9(13th BOG)Sam Walsh


Players to be BOG under all 3 methods(available since 2016 only)

Dustin Martin(twice, back to back 2019-20)
Luke Shuey 2018
Christian Petracca 2021

Note 2012-15 the player ratings and Norm Smith Medal voting never recognised the same player as BOG.

Coaches votes and Norm Smith votes have only disagreed once on who was BOG since 2016, that was 2017 when Martin and Houli were each recognised by 1 method. But by player ratings it was Martin then daylight then 27 other players, then Houli.

If we were to create a system where each method was given equal weight of 20 points for BOG, 10 for 2nd BOG, 5 for 3rd BOG under each method and alter that to 30-15-7.5 when only 2 methods were available 2012-15...and use amount of votes or player rating as a tie breaker where required, this is how the Grand Final performances would rank:

1. Luke Shuey 2018 60 points(35.7 player rating)
2. Dustin Martin 2020 60 points(32.1 player rating)
3. Christian Petracca 2021 60 points(28.8 player rating)
4. Dustin Martin 2019 60 points(22.8 player rating)

= 5. Isaac Smith 2022, Dustin Martin 2017 50 points
7. Bobby Hill 2023 40 points(max coaches/smith medal votes)
8. Jason Johannisen 2016 40 points(8 of max 15 Smith Medal votes, 9 of max 10 coaches votes)
9. Brian Lake 2013 37.5 points
10. Langford/Hodge 2014, O'Keefe 2012, Johnson 2013, Rioli/Smith 2015 30 points
16. Lance Franklin 2012 26.25 points

You could go into deeper detail but I think this is a fair enough ranking of how well recognised the different performances were under the 3 voting/scoring systems. The top 4 are basically undisputed BOG's and I have used player ratings to separate them. You could equally demote Shuey in 2018 to 4th position as he received only 11 of the 15 possible Norm Smith medal votes, where the others in the top 4 received maximum Smith Medal and Coaches votes AND were the highest rated player in the match.

There are some remarkable things about Martin's Grand Finals.

1. He was undisputed BOG under all methods back to back 2019-20, nobody else has even come close to doing that.
2. He was undisputed BOG under all methods in 2 of his 3 Grand Finals
3. He was BOG using a combination of all methods in all 3 of the 3 Grand Finals he played.
4. Each of the 3 times he was BOG in the Grand Final he accompanied this with the Gary Ayres Medal for best player in the finals series. No other Grand Final BOG has even done this once so far in the 8 year existence of the award.
5. In the least recognised of his GF performances - 2017 - he was BOG under 2 of the 3 methods with historically high votes/scores, and max vote 2nd BOG under the 3rd method, coaches votes.

We could of course go further and collate player ratings in all finals back to 2012 to impute a best in finals that way, and I am as sure as I can be that would equally show Dustin Martin streeting the field.

Dusty has either the best or second highest recognised Grand Final performance in the last 12 years, along with the 4th best and =5th best.

But he almost certainly has the undisputed 1st, 2nd and 3rd best finals series during that period. Ie his 3rd best finals series won greater recognition than any other player's(about 180-190 players play finals each year) BEST finals series in the last 12 years.

That should put his finals deeds into some sort of correct perspective for people.
 
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2 years on the table from us apparently. I hope not, he's a year to year prospect if he even wants to go around again.

Dusty is 32yo. He was the 2nd ranked general forward in the AFL last year. He was named in the AA squad and should really have been named in the AA team. He has clearly been playing under difficulties this year, those difficulties including his own fitness(injuries) and a totally malfunctioning midfield and forward line.

92000 fans just turned up to witness a mid winter game between 2 non-finalists and about 45,000 of those were there for no other reason than to be present when Dusty played his 300th match.

He is probably Richmond's greatest ever player, and probably the best finals player in the game's long history. Make that Grand Finals and it isn't even a debate.

If a 32yo was ever worth offering a multi year contract it is Dusty, and he is worth it.
 

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Something I just posted on the main board in response to another poster, to give a little greater clarity to where Dusty's finals deeds fit in v all other AFL players over the last 12 seasons....
happy erection GIF by neomagazinroyale
 
2 years on the table from us apparently. I hope not, he's a year to year prospect if he even wants to go around again.
I agree, in fact his inability to literally even consider an ounce of defensive pressure is enough for me to hope he retires as we all remember him. Dont limp to the line for another 2 years.

1 year at best, but you would want to hope we have healthy list so he can play his natural game.
 
Dusty is 32yo. He was the 2nd ranked general forward in the AFL last year. He was named in the AA squad and should really have been named in the AA team. He has clearly been playing under difficulties this year, those difficulties including his own fitness(injuries) and a totally malfunctioning midfield and forward line.

92000 fans just turned up to witness a mid winter game between 2 non-finalists and about 45,000 of those were there for no other reason than to be present when Dusty played his 300th match.

He is probably Richmond's greatest ever player, and probably the best finals player in the game's long history. Make that Grand Finals and it isn't even a debate.

If a 32yo was ever worth offering a multi year contract it is Dusty, and he is worth it.
That was last year. If we're being honest he's been pretty poor this year overall bar the odd game or moment here and there. One year should be fine, can always give him another year down the track.
 
2 years on the table from us apparently. I hope not, he's a year to year prospect if he even wants to go around again.
He takes what he likes.
A good role model and teacher for the young Tigers.

Let's back our kids.

Look at the Hawks.
Were terrible just last year and turned it around.

Now over to the CFL as well,no more shenanigans.
 
most obviously a slip of the tongue or bad research, but has anyone got any real proper reason why Jack Riewoldt thinks we are playing freo after the bye?:drunk:
his question seemed to startle Dusty a bit as well :oops:
 
That was last year. If we're being honest he's been pretty poor this year overall bar the odd game or moment here and there. One year should be fine, can always give him another year down the track.

Dusty has been way below his best this year, no dispute, in the main he has not been recognisable as the Dusty we know. But he has not been right, and he has been forced to play by our shocking number of injuries, especially to mids and forwards.

he is surely likely to play better in the future and the club would know this, thus the 2 year offer. Also, other clubs aren't stupid, if we gave him 1 year someone else will be in there offering multi-year deals to tempt him away, which we really do not want under any circumstances, especially after what we witnessed on Saturday. That is totally unprecedented in football.

2 years is fine and I would just about bet it won't be his last contract as well.
 
Dusty has been way below his best this year, no dispute, in the main he has not been recognisable as the Dusty we know. But he has not been right, and he has been forced to play by our shocking number of injuries, especially to mids and forwards.

he is surely likely to play better in the future and the club would know this, thus the 2 year offer. Also, other clubs aren't stupid, if we gave him 1 year someone else will be in there offering multi-year deals to tempt him away, which we really do not want under any circumstances, especially after what we witnessed on Saturday. That is totally unprecedented in football.

2 years is fine and I would just about bet it won't be his last contract as well.
I'll take that bet
 

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Player Watch #4 Dustin Martin GOAT and King of Punt Rd - OFFICIALLY RETIRED

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