5th Test Border Gavaskar Trophy January 3-7 1000hrs @ the SCG

[PhatBoy]

check out Higgo’s rant on Indian cricket’s corrupting influence on world cricket starting at 25:50

Beautifully articulated!

I don’t disagree with his point - when things legitimately happen they DONT have to worry because they’re not going to get punished.

Kohli should have been suspended for shouldering Konstas.

Remember back to the Rabada Smith incident - before his appeal he got 2 matches and he didn’t even make physical contact from memory, it was actually just shirt on shirt and it was in his follow through. Kohli should have been rubbed out.

I don’t really think the other stuff they’re harping on about is worth getting charged up over though because if you’re expecting players to get sanctioned for those things be they Indian or not, I think you are going to be disappointed more often than not.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Sam Konstas.
He might burn as brightly as Peter Toohey (for those old enough to remember) but unless he tightens his technique he will burn out even faster.

His first Test innings must draw comparisons with David Hookes and his debut in the Centenary Test. Hookes, while a phenon at Shield level never transferred his results to Test level. Lack of footwork was his greatest downfall particularly against spin and seam away from Australia.

Sri Lanka will be an interesting watch.

Webster on the other hand looks to have a technique of getting forward or back as appropriate, and doesn't get caught on the crease. He might be very handy in the subcontinent with a solid technique and ability to bowl seam up and spin.

Exciting times.

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

 

[Gavin Excell]

Not from me, we were undeniably shit and it was terrible watching cricket for a while.

Chris Broads century in the innings win in the 1986 Boxing Day test was my lowest ebb

 

[PhatBoy]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

It never, ever has been IMO.

It’s how you apply it whatever technique it is you employ.

Not sure how old you are but when I was a kid you basically had the Aussie team that was
Boon: had a little shuffle across to the offside and a wave of the bat and predominantly kept bat and pad together, defended from the front foot, attacked off the back
Taylor: brought his bat down from the slips quite a bit and liked to plonk the front foot
Steve Waugh: never pulled or hooked, got his hands incredibly low to the ground as he went forward then back and always played off the back foot unless he was defending or playing through the onside.
Mark Waugh: classical technique
Allan Border: looked like he almost stabbed at everything, crouched, went back and across, played away from his body when he attacked outside off and was regularly on the move when he hit the ball


Then you had England:
Gooch: bat almost pointing at the sky it was so far raised in his stance
Atherton: shuffled around his crease and forever prodding at anything outside off stump and never getting his front pad outside the line of the pegs but somehow managed to make runs when he wasn’t playing Australia and very good against short bowling.
Stewart: held the bat handle so high it was like a magic wand and had a huge step backwards
Smith: huge crouch when the bowler let the ball go and got right deep into his crease before waiting for a short ball to jump into

And on it went with Lara and his high back lift etc etc.

A good technique gets you a head start. But that’s about it IMO.

 

[Gough]

Chris Broads century in the innings win in the 1986 Boxing Day test was my lowest ebb

It made the 89 Ashes so sweet though.

 

[The hands of stone]

I’m not sure about the lost form bit, he was coming off the 2019 Ashes, which to me that or the 2017 India series were the best performances of his career. I think Wagner clearly worked out a way to take away his strength and frustrated him in to taking wickets.

We did see after a while teams going to that approach for a while. The point I was making is that we don’t really see that anymore because Smith figured it out. We’ve seen throughout the past five years teams try different tactics to him and he’s constantly tinkering to counteract it and has been successful (albeit not to the extent of his peak of averaging 70+).

Kohli on the other hand has been getting out pretty much in the same fashion for a considerable period of time, and he has done very little to address it, which is quite remarkable really for a guy of his quality.

To be fair to Kohli though, his record in white ball cricket is astonishing and far ahead of anyone else in this era.

Wagner was awkward for a good few years wasn't he .
Was able to zip the ball off the deck and developed good fields while consistently getting the ball under the armpit cramping for room .
Like you say Smith and most quality bats worked it out eventually .

Kohli's is technique but more importantly ego imo. He simple cannot restrain himself and be disciplined to not force through the off side .

 

[Mick F]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

No doubt the bowlers will have the final say. Is their technique/bowling areas good enough??

 

[The hands of stone]

There is certainly areas that Konstas needs to work on but he is the shot in the arm the team needed.

He currently is a sugar hit for CA , but we need him to now develop into the long term real deal .

 

[Cleavy]

I don't recall seeing any mentions, but hopefully they are compiling footage for a new season of Amazon's "The Test" during this series. If not, severely missed opportunity.

 

[dogs105]

"Dad, why is my sister's name "Rose"?"

"Because your mum loves roses"

"Thanks Dad"

"No problem ScottBoland"

 

[dogs105]

Imagine this board in the mid 1980s when a draw against New Zealand was the highlight of the summer.

Hey, a draw AND a Mo Matthews hundred...

 

[BStaff17]

I've always wondered, at the live shows is it phones off, no recording ect ?

Well someone could secretly record it but it defeats & ruins the purpose of the show if someone did.

You want the guests off the leash with no fear you get more funny shit out of them with no recourse or backlash.

Its a cricket comedy night like going to any comedy show.

We got to see the cheeky Ricky Ponting at play & Gilchrist was a bonus in the 2nd part no one knew was actually happening.

It wasn't promoted he happened to be in the crowd and Punter brought him along.

One of the great nights especially if you love the TGC and the humour they bring.

I went in 2019 in Birmingham when i was over there for the Ashes and this was ramped up by x 100 then 5 years ago.

 

[Stax on the mill]

Chris Broads century in the innings win in the 1986 Boxing Day test was my lowest ebb

From memory I think he got 3 centuries in that series? He did bat well. Arrogant S.O.B though. Apple didn’t fall far from the tree with son Stuart.

It was Merv Hughes debut series. In his first test he got absolutely carted. I remember Ian Chappell commentating and saying “The trouble with Mervyn Hughes is that he thinks he’s a fast bowler”. And he meant it in a derogatory way. Pretty brutal stuff, even by Chappell’s tawdry standards.

 

[western royboy]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

I am prepared to give it a go…but historically the only players who have prospered with elements of non conventional techniques are “freaks” Bradman,Sehwag, du Plessis & Smith to name a few.

There is no opening batsman in the history of the game that has prospered with a gap as big as he does between his bat and pad when playing a forward defence.

As batting techniques decline it may be the way of the future but I remain very skeptical of it succeeding once he comes under the close attention of the analysts

 

[sabso]

Hey, a draw AND a Mo Matthews hundred...

Hanging loos? What, toilets?

 

[western royboy]

Hey, a draw AND a Mo Matthews hundred...

I had a night in the Randwick Rugby Club with Mo after a days play in Grade cricket one day…I learned a hell of a lot about the game that night, truly one of the underrated characters of the game

 

[beatnik]

I don’t disagree with his point - when things legitimately happen they DONT have to worry because they’re not going to get punished.

Kohli should have been suspended for shouldering Konstas.

Remember back to the Rabada Smith incident - before his appeal he got 2 matches and he didn’t even make physical contact from memory, it was actually just shirt on shirt and it was in his follow through. Kohli should have been rubbed out.

I don’t really think the other stuff they’re harping on about is worth getting charged up over though because if you’re expecting players to get sanctioned for those things be they Indian or not, I think you are going to be disappointed more often than not.

I think that’s the whole point Phatboy, plenty of people just accept that Indian players will get away with things no one else would and that’s the corruption of world cricket summed up right there

my level disappointment is of no consequence…when I can be bothered, I’ll call it out and to suggest I should preserve my energy by sliding into indifference is a) a little bit patronising and b) the sort of energy that enables it

So let me just say again: **** the BCCI and their corruption of world cricket

 

[Soggy2112]

I am prepared to give it a go…but historically the only players who have prospered with elements of non conventional techniques are “freaks” Bradman,Sehwag, du Plessis & Smith to name a few.

There is no opening batsman in the history of the game that has prospered with a gap as big as he does between his bat and pad when playing a forward defence.

As batting techniques decline it may be the way of the future but I remain very skeptical of it succeeding once he comes under the close attention of the analysts

Define “non-conventional”. I reckon you can name nearly as many with aspects of their technique you wouldn’t necessarily teach.

Ponting, Lara, Amla, Smith (both Graeme and Steven), S Waugh, Gilchrist, Pietersen, Cook, Pant etc the list goes on. All guys with parts of their technique that if you saw at 19, you would probably instinctively want to change. Yet if you took those things away, they likely lose some of what made them so great.

 

[sr36]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

Depends upon the pitch and the bowler, but on those pitches and the way Bumrah was bowling a ramp was a safer shot than a cover drive and going to get you more runs than blocking until a loose ball came. Against Bumrah and Boland the loose balls don't come often enough, so if the pitch is seaming, you're really just blocking until the edge comes.

 

[PhatBoy]

I think that’s the whole point Phatboy, plenty of people just accept that Indian players will get away with things no one else would and that’s the corruption of world cricket summed up right there

my level disappointment is of no consequence…when I can be bothered, I’ll call it out and to suggest I should preserve my energy by sliding into indifference is a) a little bit patronising and b) the sort of energy that enables it

So let me just say again: **** the BCCI and their corruption of world cricket

Those things though: motioning towards someone after a wicket? It’s not illegal, no one is going to get sanctioned for that, Indian or not.

I can understand people getting the shits about it, but ultimately none of them when Khawaja got out got right in Konstas’ personal space, touched him, abused him etc.

It was pretty obvious they wanted to, and Bumrah in particular really wanted to unleash and then almost visibly had a moment where he had to remind himself not to go too far. But I don’t see what they could have been sanctioned for.

Teams do that stuff when players rile them up. Remember the Aussies getting in a group and turning and barking at Faf when he left the field? Retrospectively it’s actually pretty funny albeit a bit childish.

Siraj to Head: again it was a bowler giving a batsman a send off, it happens every game. It just got exacerbated because this particular bowler looked incredibly f**king stupid given that the batsman had just crunched a century, and then the bowler came out and spoke about it. So what sanctions would be imposed over it? Maybe a fine, which he got anyway.


Kohli blows up at some photographers and tells them not to film him. Ok so again, he acts like a Prima Donna - it’s douche bag behaviour but what are the sanctions that he’s dodging? What suspensions are NZ players going to get for the same thing? You can’t MAKE a guy want to be photographed at an airport and be nice to the media. He didn’t break anyone’s camera or whatever. I guess some countries might make their players issue an apology maybe.


I’m just saying that a lot of the instances they’re talking about are things that understandably piss people off - no doubt about that - but they are things that other countries players HAVE done and not been rubbed out for so why would Indian players get rubbed out for them.

At any rate the bottom line is, I think we can agree, India realistically probably can do what they want.

But I don’t think beyond Kohli’s shoulder, that any of their behaviour crossed a line that would get someone suspended. And being realistic, him staying in the side probably helped if anything.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

check out Higgo’s rant on Indian cricket’s corrupting influence on world cricket starting at 25:50

Beautifully articulated!

I loved the comments about Ricky Ponting, so true

 

[beatnik]

Those things though: motioning towards someone after a wicket? It’s not illegal, no one is going to get sanctioned for that, Indian or not.

I can understand people getting the shits about it, but ultimately none of them when Khawaja got out got right in Konstas’ personal space, touched him, abused him etc.

It was pretty obvious they wanted to, and Bumrah in particular really wanted to unleash and then almost visibly had a moment where he had to remind himself not to go too far. But I don’t see what they could have been sanctioned for.

Teams do that stuff when players rile them up. Remember the Aussies getting in a group and turning and barking at Faf when he left the field? Retrospectively it’s actually pretty funny albeit a bit childish.

Siraj to Head: again it was a bowler giving a batsman a send off, it happens every game. It just got exacerbated because this particular bowler looked incredibly f**king stupid given that the batsman had just crunched a century, and then the bowler came out and spoke about it. So what sanctions would be imposed over it? Maybe a fine, which he got anyway.


Kohli blows up at some photographers and tells them not to film him. Ok so again, he acts like a Prima Donna - it’s douche bag behaviour but what are the sanctions that he’s dodging? What suspensions are NZ players going to get for the same thing? You can’t MAKE a guy want to be photographed at an airport and be nice to the media. He didn’t break anyone’s camera or whatever. I guess some countries might make their players issue an apology maybe.


I’m just saying that a lot of the instances they’re talking about are things that understandably piss people off - no doubt about that - but they are things that other countries players HAVE done and not been rubbed out for so why would Indian players get rubbed out for them.

At any rate the bottom line is, I think we can agree, India realistically probably can do what they want.

But I don’t think beyond Kohli’s shoulder, that any of their behaviour crossed a line that would get someone suspended. And being realistic, him staying in the side probably helped if anything.

I feel like you largely missed the point of the podcast I posted and that’s ok

Personally, I remember decades of complaining about The Ugly Australians both from cricket fans and media abroad and at home and am now watching India avoid accountability for a range of worse behaviour while pretending to be victimised

But it’s not my job to convince those that are comfortable with that

 

[PhatBoy]

I feel like you largely missed the point of the podcast I posted and that’s ok

Personally, I remember decades of complaining about The Ugly Australians both from cricket fans and media abroad and at home and am now watching India avoid accountability for a range of worse behaviour while pretending to be victimised

But it’s not my job to convince those that are comfortable with that

The point of their podcast seemed to be ‘India can get away with all of this stuff because they’re India but anyone else wouldn’t be able to.’

I’m saying ‘only one of the things they did’ (I’m not going to comment on the ball tampering thing as it’s the first I’ve heard of it) ‘could get ANYONE punished, Indian or otherwise.’

Tell me which country’s players would be suspended for what Siraj did at Adelaide?

No one’s.

It’s a myth that he avoided something because he’s Indian; he avoided it because it’s just not that serious an offence. He looked like a dickhead, but that’s not a hanging offence

Maybe I did miss a point that they were making, I dunno, but it seemed to me that all these examples they were giving were of players behaving in a certain way, that if they were from any other country, they would have faced some serious level of punishment.


I don’t believe that to be the case.

I think if they were from any other country they would have faced a serious level of ‘look at this f**kwit’ - which they copped anyway, and deservedly so.

For all of that, as I said, I DO agree that IF they did something that warranted a suspension….. which they did in one case, they simply wouldn’t get given one.

 

[revo333]

Well someone could secretly record it but it defeats & ruins the purpose of the show if someone did.

You want the guests off the leash with no fear you get more funny shit out of them with no recourse or backlash.

Its a cricket comedy night like going to any comedy show.

We got to see the cheeky Ricky Ponting at play & Gilchrist was a bonus in the 2nd part no one knew was actually happening.

It wasn't promoted he happened to be in the crowd and Punter brought him along.

One of the great nights especially if you love the TGC and the humour they bring.

I went in 2019 in Birmingham when i was over there for the Ashes and this was ramped up by x 100 then 5 years ago.

Yeah, I hear the shows in England and India were nuts.

It's a great podcast and probably got my interest back in cricket 3-4 years ago.

I remember when they first started on twitter.

 

[revo333]

I was talking about technique with a friend the other day who argues that cricket has evolved now where the Konstas type player can find a spot in Test cricket. In other words, classic technique isn't as important as it once was. Not saying I was convinced totally but there may be some merit to the argument

England has proved you can have one or two in a team but having more will have mixed results.

I think Konstas and Head can play in the same team long term with the way they bat.

It seems what we saw with Konstas was specifically for this series and he won't be as reckless.

But in the circumstance of the last game, that quick fire 20 chasing 160 was worth double.