NO TROLLS Aboriginal names for AFL clubs

[Chief]

And yet here you are, asking if this is too much.

 

[kickazz]

In the current climate, it’s not teally possible to ask ‘is this too much?’ without being accused of being something. It’s Interesting to ponder how we got here and what the end point is.

I hear this a lot and do not agree with it. I think there are some media types who like to peddle this persecution complex. A lot of the far right (and far left for that matter) love to reduce things to this black/white with us or against us scenario. The real world is rarely like that.

If asked in a reasonable way then you tend to get reasonable responses.

e.g People who say "doing an acknowledgement of country at the start of every meeting seems excessive and perfunctory" - many at my (fairly progressive) workplace have said that, most tend to agree or at least sympathise with the position. In the end, not many people at all do it - I recon I have seen it once or twice at 'run of the mill' meetings.

if you say "why should I have to be welcomed to my own country" - it probably depends on the spirit with which you ask this question - whether you are being cynical of the whole thing or if you genuinely do not understand the cultural significance.

Then there is the "this is all too woke" - well you might get accused of being something there because you are clearly not trying to engage, you are trying to be belligerent.


TL;DR: If you questions things in good faith, you usually will get good faith responses.

 

[phantom13]

I hear this a lot and do not agree with it. I think there are some media types who like to peddle this persecution complex. A lot of the far right (and far left for that matter) love to reduce things to this black/white with us or against us scenario. The real world is rarely like that.

If asked in a reasonable way then you tend to get reasonable responses.

e.g People who say "doing an acknowledgement of country at the start of every meeting seems excessive and perfunctory" - many at my (fairly progressive) workplace have said that, most tend to agree or at least sympathise with the position. In the end, not many people at all do it - I recon I have seen it once or twice at 'run of the mill' meetings.

if you say "why should I have to be welcomed to my own country" - it probably depends on the spirit with which you ask this question - whether you are being cynical of the whole thing or if you genuinely do not understand the cultural significance.

Then there is the "this is all too woke" - well you might get accused of being something there because you are clearly not trying to engage, you are trying to be belligerent.


TL;DR: If you questions things in good faith, you usually will get good faith responses.

I actually rate the welcome to country as a great initiative, my team were all asked to pen their own and look into their actual home suburb etc. history, it was a worthwhile exercise.

Having said that, sitting in an informal off the cuff design meeting the other day and an external consultant made a big deal about doing it 5 minutes into the meeting and it felt a little ****ing stupid.

 

[juss]

Feels a little tokenistic for me, and the way it's executed is very inconsistent. E.g. a random host of clubs do it while others don't, and commentators/media will sometimes use the name in that period and sometimes not, then after 2 weeks it goes away.

I feel like all clubs will be socially pressured into doing it within 2 years though, as if you're the club who's marketing team doesn't adopt this you'd be labelled as the non supportive of Indigenous culture club, doing nothing for reconciliation, etc.

Feel it would be more powerful if all clubs did it and it was highlighted for that particular week or fortnight as part of their guernsies.

That being said, I also would be happy to just keep their existing names, but it's a nice touch while feeling a little odd in it's delivery.

 

[JackFlash]

Unnecessary.

 

[Consolaçao]

I actually rate the welcome to country as a great initiative, my team were all asked to pen their own and look into their actual home suburb etc. history, it was a worthwhile exercise.

Having said that, sitting in an informal off the cuff design meeting the other day and an external consultant made a big deal about doing it 5 minutes into the meeting and it felt a little ****ing stupid.

Welcome to Country i can get on board with… Acknowledgement of Country is a very different kettle of fish. Feels a little too much like saying grace.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I really like it but every club should do it, it's weird how half do it half don't

Geelong kinda can't because the local name for Geelong is Geelong. You can change the spelling to the proper "Djilang" but you'll just end up with people mocking the media people for pronouncing a word with an affected accent that is the same in English. At what point does that become more racist?

 

[Feraligatr]

I think there is a place for both. I don't think it has to be one way or the other. You can have the middle ground. Like you can have the Yarra River and Birong Mar at the same time.(sorry if I spelt that wrong)

With teams like Hawthorn and Richmond who are probably a part of Narrm, you could have Prahran for the Tiges (as I'm not sure if there is an indigenous name for Tiger) which means swampy place, which was where Richmond is now. Although prahran is the Anglo version of the traditional word

And for Hawthorn they could use the indigenous name for the Hawk like the Crows did this year or hawthorn is in the Boroondara council area and Boroondara is the indigenous word for The Shaded Place so they could use that.

 

[Chief]

Unnecessary.

 

[Kram]

Welcome to Country i can get on board with… Acknowledgement of Country is a very different kettle of fish. Feels a little too much like saying grace.

They were doing the latter at the start every morning for online PD with my work. Honestly it's so silly in that situation.

 

[Cmarsh]

Like a lot of other institutions in Australia, the AFL are having a hard time determining what is an appropriate and reasonable level of recognition.
The reality today is that to choose not to align your’s with the most progressive view is to be considered reactionary or racist.
If the proposal were made to (say) change Melbourne’s name to Narrm for the whole of 2025 in memory some or other anniversary, i have no doubt the entire progressive class would be wholeheartedly supportive, with those opposing branded as regressive, racist, etc.
In the current climate, it’s not teally possible to ask ‘is this too much?’ without being accused of being something. It’s Interesting to ponder how we got here and what the end point is.
I see it in my youngest kid’s Kindy. Literally every painting brought home is ATSI/ Kaurna related. It’s friggin’ weird.
I see it in my workplace. The spectacle of non-indigenous people engaged in something like a religious prayer circle at the beginning of each meeting. Again, profoundly strange.
And the endless stream of platitudes, posturing and empty gestures which (in my view) achieve nothing for ATSIs.

Your comment about kindy reminded me last year around the time of the referendum in my daughter's pre school their teachers got all the little kids to do artworks that incorporated the word 'yes'.

 

[Consolaçao]

Your comment about kindy reminded me last year around the time of the referendum in my daughter's pre school their teachers got all the little kids to do artworks that incorporated the word 'yes'.

Interesting.. how did you feel about that?

 

[Cmarsh]

Interesting.. how did you feel about that?

I thought it was too politically biased.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Absoloutely hate it, should never have happened

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Wow surprised at the number of no votes in the poll.

Im shocked there are that many yes votes

 

[phantom13]

Absoloutely hate it, should never have happened

Why?

 

[Chief]

Absoloutely hate it, should never have happened

What is it that you hate about it?

 

[Sth Melb Hellas]

Naarm is what they called the area that the CBD now resides.

20mins of google and I’m an expert now.

1866 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/63171533#

 

[ManOfClay]

Any more and they will be replacing footballs with boomerangs and commissioning Yothu Yindi to remake all the club songs.

“Treaty” was a low key great tune for its time so wouldn’t hurt some clubs

 

[Liam Boy]

This idea falls apart pretty quickly when you realise there aren't names for all the clubs in Melbourne. Almost like the western concept of cities and suburbs with boundaries doesn't really apply to a totally different set of cultures and ways of life.

On that, I've always found the reference to all of metropolitan Melbourne as "Naarm" to be a bit weird, it's inaccurate on its face but the whole point of acknowledging white settlement and destruction of the original nations and their lands is that what's there now is largely not what it once was. There's no native word in Woi wurrung for "Melbourne" any more than there's one for Carlton or Footscray, because Melbourne is the thing white people built on the land they stole. Co-opting a word for what used to be there doesn't really do anything to remedy that.

I don't really know what the right answer is to this though. I think it's largely well-intentioned and a genuine effort to celebrate those cultures, so I don't really have a problem with it.

 

[Cold Sober]

Makkanuvvawunup, seems to me the amount of mobs doesn't add up to the population of the times.
History is history, made up history is what it is.
Indigenous people did not invent the game per se, had no involvement in the naming of teams and were hardly involved in the game til maybe the 60's 70's. Thankfully that has changed, great to watch and talents are exceptional.
But, things need to be put into perspective.
Indigenous round and dreamtime are great inceptions but not over 3 months.

 

[phantom13]

Makkanuvvawunup, seems to me the amount of mobs doesn't add up to the population of the times.
History is history, made up history is what it is.
Indigenous people did not invent the game per se, had no involvement in the naming of teams and were hardly involved in the game til maybe the 60's 70's. Thankfully that has changed, great to watch and talents are exceptional.
But, things need to be put into perspective.
Indigenous round and dreamtime are great inceptions but not over 3 months.

Isnt Aussie Rules based around Marngrook?

I know the popular version of the birth of Aussie Rules is the game between Scotch and Melbourne but most of the written stuff ive seen more recently notes Marngrook was alot closer to what AFL became and obviously pre dated the 1858 game by alot.

Hardly involved until the 60s or 70s is a weird comment too. Pretty sure we all know the reasoning for their limited involvement.

 

[kickazz]

Geelong kinda can't because the local name for Geelong is Geelong. You can change the spelling to the proper "Djilang" but you'll just end up with people mocking the media people for pronouncing a word with an affected accent that is the same in English. At what point does that become more racist?

Even the Djilang spelling being 'proper' is dubious given our first nations people did not have written language.

I do understand that there is now an effort to sort of have some structure around the written form, but still, it is a bit contrived. Perhaps another geographical name could be used for distinction, like Corio or something.

 

[Sth Melb Hellas]

Isnt Aussie Rules based around Marngrook?

I know the popular version of the birth of Aussie Rules is the game between Scotch and Melbourne but most of the written stuff ive seen more recently notes Marngrook was alot closer to what AFL became and obviously pre dated the 1858 game by alot.

Hardly involved until the 60s or 70s is a weird comment too. Pretty sure we all know the reasoning for their limited involvement.

Marngrook has ZERO to do with Australian Rules.

You can blame Martin Flanagan for flogging this over the years.

 

[phantom13]

Marngrook has ZERO to do with Australian Rules.

Ahhh, look im happy to be proven wrong here but most of the reading ive done on this very clearly atriculates that at a minimum its a very close relation and likely a forefather.

You care to expand on it having zero to do with Aussie Rules?