List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Mutineer]

of course you refuse to compare him to club champs in the games he played. Wouldn't reconcile with your Vader level assessment.

Fair chance I've seen a lot more of his footy than you given I've had a SANFL Digital Pass from the 1st season they were available and I've watched every single game Ben's played at SANFL and AFL level since then.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

No I won’t stop. Agree it’s highly unlikely

Haha, well you added the last few pages to this thread in quick time in tur off season.

 

[hey shorty]

Our rebuild is done. It was done after last year's draft.

Do you ever tire of being so cynical ??

 

[hey shorty]

I don't need to check anything, Ben Davis has some talent which he's failed to show even close to consistently at either SANFL or AFL level in 5 years on our list....it's time to move on in my opinion and nothing you come up with will sway that belief.

Why do you bother ??

 

[1970crow]

Ok, you are in one of those moods again.

tell me which experienced player not returning from injury spent any more than a game in the 2s under Nicks. You can believe what you like, but we played our most experienced group each week regardless of form or injury throughout the last 2 seasons. And Sloane did not have reduced midfield time late this year in favour of Schoey. You were wrong then And your remain wrong now. Schoey's time on ground decreased, but you refuse to reassess your flawed belief.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

tell me which experienced player not returning from injury spent any more than a game in the 2s under Nicks. You can believe what you like, but we played our most experienced group each week regardless of form or injury throughout the last 2 seasons. And Sloane did not have reduced midfield time late this year in favour of Schoey. You were wrong then And your remain wrong now. Schoey's time on ground decreased, but you refuse to reassess your flawed belief.

What has this rant got anything to do with my post?

You claimed our rebuild is complete.

No one on planet earth really believes this!

 

[hey shorty]

What has this rant got anything to do with my post?

You claimed our rebuild is complete.

No one on planet earth really believes this!

Nor does the club based on statements made by them.

Loves a good mindless rant.

 

[baldandbroke]

Nor does the club based on statements made by them.

Loves a good mindless rant.

I would hope we are well past the part of the rebuild where we clear out players we don’t think fit into it future … and we are well into the bit where we add a heap of new talent to see who has what it takes.

We should also have a tick next to the off field rebuild bit.

Look at our squad, look at our off field … they are completely unrecognisable from our near miss in 2017.

I know 1970 was just throwing out a cynical post to see who would bite, but actually we are moving along the path quite well.

As was discussed in the JHF thread (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...021-mega-thread.1247233/page-37#post-72657226) plenty of new faces to excite us supporters over the coming seasons

 

[glengowan]

Interested in what areas of Keays, Doedee, O'Brien and Dawson's games you think will be significantly improved from game 1 2022 and when they reach this magical 100 games?

Doedee has a lot of improving to do in the one on one area of his game. He needs to at least break even and bring the ball to ground, even if giving away height. Cost us 2 games last year.

 

[baldandbroke]

Cost us 2 games last year.

No he didn’t.

 

[Mismatched]

I would hope we are well past the part of the rebuild where we clear out players we don’t think fit into it future … and we are well into the bit where we add a heap of new talent to see who has what it takes.

We should also have a tick next to the off field rebuild bit.

I think the major cull is done and those senior players that are left are the leadership/support required to develop the list.

With regards to bringing in new talent, this year I think is the last year that the draft should be a major focus. This is why I'd be keen to see what our future 1st could net us in this year's draft, bring that extra 1st rounder in this year, give him an extra years development and really focus on assessing what we have and what we perceive as weaknesses moving forwards.

The next 2-3 years should be about developing talent and addressing needs, ideally through free agence and if not, through trade.

 

[Golumless]

Doedee has a lot of improving to do in the one on one area of his game. He needs to at least break even and bring the ball to ground, even if giving away height. Cost us 2 games last year.

There is a point with giving away height where that expectation is pretty unrealistic. Especially once you move away from the more mediocre key forwards in the league and towards the ones who have a reliable 1v1 game. It's why the sub 190 cm key backs have all but died out.

Nick's cost us those games by not selecting a 2nd KPD. Doedee was just set up to fail and failed.

 

[GROTTO]

I think the major cull is done and those senior players that are left are the leadership/support required to develop the list.

With regards to bringing in new talent, this year I think is the last year that the draft should be a major focus. This is why I'd be keen to see what our future 1st could net us in this year's draft, bring that extra 1st rounder in this year, give him an extra years development and really focus on assessing what we have and what we perceive as weaknesses moving forwards.

The next 2-3 years should be about developing talent and addressing needs, ideally through free agence and if not, through trade.

I presume next year may be Tex and Sloane's last?

Is Sloane still with us till end of 2023?

 

[dogs105]

I presume next year may be Tex and Sloane's last?

Is Sloane still with us till end of 2023?

If he has a good one at half forward, kicks 30 goals and puts continuous pressure on, I'd be happy to see him for another year or two.

If he doesn't get fit, he won't play much longer.

 

[Thetrader15]

I presume next year may be Tex and Sloane's last?

Is Sloane still with us till end of 2023?

2 more years on Sloane's contract which he will see out, regardless of form.

 

[GROTTO]

2 more years on Sloane's contract which he will see out, regardless of form.

FMD

 

[rabidcrow]

tell me which experienced player not returning from injury spent any more than a game in the 2s under Nicks. You can believe what you like, but we played our most experienced group each week regardless of form or injury throughout the last 2 seasons. And Sloane did not have reduced midfield time late this year in favour of Schoey. You were wrong then And your remain wrong now. Schoey's time on ground decreased, but you refuse to reassess your flawed belief.

We played at least 10 players each week under 20 games. So yes our experienced players played whenever they were ready. Having 13-14 under 20 games played playing each week would be ridiculous


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[ad victoriam]

It's unfortunate that when Mummy nailed him, he didn't know how to land properly to protect himself from possible injury.

In Judo they learn a move called 'ukemi or 'break fall' from white belt and Mummies hit is quite similar to an 'o soto gari' take down (see below).
View attachment 1268728

If taught correctly, it is 100% possible to receive such a hit and not injure or concuss yourself (see below).
View attachment 1268732

We really don't do enough to teach players about falling down safely...

I really hope the young man doesn't suffer any long term repercussions.

The Key to breaking a fall is to have an arm free for the slap. Brander was holding the football and did not release the Arm.
He was caught front on with both hands across his chest holding the ball, the only thing he could have done is tucked his chin in.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

And how much AFL games experience does Lienert bring?
Valid point...but wrong player

I never said anything about Lienert actually, so the usual suspects frothing at the opportunity to bestow their words of wisdom can take them elsewhere.
I was merely making the point that getting an experienced player into the team wasn’t this catastrophic road block to youth development that many short term thinkers on this board seem to think it is.

Like it or not Lienert has been part of a pretty good Port Adelaide team of the last 4 years, and I’d back in our recruiting team if they thought he’d bring something to the squad, in whatever capacity that is. My preference would be as development coach/player in the SANFL, but I’m sure he thinks, and other clubs will too, that he has some AFL years left in him






Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Golumless]

The typical Crows supporter paranoia is palpable here.

Lynch, Talia, McKay have all made an exit, even losing players like Davis will lower our age profile dramatically. Unlikely Tex goes on another year and we’re looking very thin in terms of experienced players around the club.

These experienced players push younger players and drive expectations. Some people on this board just don’t get the bigger picture that it’s all a balance act as we go forward. Some would have us field an entire team of under 22’s every week ‘just to get the gaaaaames into ‘em!’

Moronic.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The thing with experience is, on its own, experience is completely useless.

Why this pervasive idea exists is that quality footballers and experience are correlated. However, it's more that quality players get game time and eventually become experienced, not experience makes a quality footballer better.

We have the experienced players to push the youngsters already. You only need a handful of them, and with Sloane, Tex, Smith, Seedsman, Laird, Mrouch etc, we have them already. The balancing act is not senior v young. It's quality footballers and developing prospects. With anyone we are bringing into our club there are two key questions - do they substantially make our best 22 better (after all, getting in an older guy who is only marginally better than a prospect ends up being self-harming, as they get game time and stunt the prospect from developing), or do we reckon something has been missed with their development, and they're in a position of need (the Keays/Crocker types).

The Leinarts, Dunstans, Dumonts types of this world offer no positives whatsoever to a rebuilding side. They just clog the list and block the pathway up that gets kids into the best 22 as quickly as feasible. Even if the intention is to use them as depth as there will be a time the team starts losing, and any coaching group is immediately going to look at a older guy and say - he fixes our problem. It's the mistake that wrecked Melbourne in the early 2010s, Carlton in the mid 2010s, and North in the late 2010s.

Now a player like Dawson is exactly what we should be targeting. They have the potential to make a difference.

 

[Mego Red]

Sure, but he would be on a 2 or 3 year deal so you can basically say bye to Worrell getting games.

There's enough experience now with Smith, Brown, Doedee and possibly Milera back there.

He'd get a one year deal and none of those players you're mentioning will be playing in the two's

We don't necessarily need more 18 year old long shots in our rookie list, all running around in the two's without much idea. We have A LOT of youth that we're trying to develop. A couple of mature heads not competing for a spot will be good.

 

[Mismatched]

I presume next year may be Tex and Sloane's last?

Is Sloane still with us till end of 2023?

You'd assume this year will be Tex's last, but then if he recaptures his form from the start of the year, who knows? I imagine he'll be pretty fired up, with a point to prove, after everything that happened at the end of this year. Especially if he can drop a little more weight. Thilthorpe's still very young and Tex potentially takes the pressure off Fogarty to suddenly take over as #1. But I'd imagine it'll be his last.

Sloanes an interesting one, so many young players gunning for his spot, Sloanes form being average at best the last couple of years, can he find a more outside role or does he find himself in the 2's and decide to retire instead of going on in 2023?

 

[Mismatched]

He'd get a one year deal and none of those players you're mentioning will be playing in the two's

We don't necessarily need more 18 year old long shots in our rookie list, all running around in the two's without much idea. We have A LOT of youth that we're trying to develop. A couple of mature heads not competing for a spot will be good.

I tend to agree with this, by my count I believe we're probably going to have 4 picks in the ND and 1 in the RD (could be 5 and 0). This is on top of the 11 players under 23 we've taken in the past 12 months, a fair chunk of whom are already in our best 26.

Assuming no trades get done, our 3rd and 4th picks are 75 and 80, we're probably going pretty speculative there (ie needing a couple years development), does it really matter if that final rookie pick is essentially a playing development coach? The 2 proviso's being, no one of note falls that far and that this player doesn't suddenly find his way into the best 22 reckoning.

As an aside, I do wonder if we don't have plans to find another pick inside the first round... I suppose 75 and 80 probably end up being picks in the 50's anyway with FS bids and clubs likely taking low numbers at the draft.

Lots of youth trying to develop...may as well add a 27yo trying to develop too hey?

Yes, he has a good leg and probably can be pushing for best 22 for a bottom 4 club, but 23 games of AFL he isn't offering more AFL experience than Jones, Butts or Hamill who have all played more AFL than him.

Its about more than games experience, its about leadership and a mature body in the SANFL. The theory would be someone who contributes to the development of those around him, rather than spreading our development resourses that bit thinner. Someone who makes our SANFL side more competitive and in Lienert's situation, could play comfortably on talls and smalls at SANFL level.

Personally, I'm not too fussed either way, but I can see value in holding the last rookie spot for a "playing" development coach, especially given recent cuts to soft cap.

 

[1970crow]

You'd assume this year will be Tex's last, but then if he recaptures his form from the start of the year, who knows? I imagine he'll be pretty fired up, with a point to prove, after everything that happened at the end of this year. Especially if he can drop a little more weight. Thilthorpe's still very young and Tex potentially takes the pressure off Fogarty to suddenly take over as #1. But I'd imagine it'll be his last.

Sloanes an interesting one, so many young players gunning for his spot, Sloanes form being average at best the last couple of years, can he find a more outside role or does he find himself in the 2's and decide to retire instead of going on in 2023?

Sloane won't play 2s, simply won't happen. He's much more likely to retire as a starting centre square midfielder than in the SANFL.

 

[Mego Red]

Lots of youth trying to develop...may as well add a 27yo trying to develop too hey?

Yes, he has a good leg and probably can be pushing for best 22 for a bottom 4 club, but 23 games of AFL he isn't offering more AFL experience than Jones, Butts or Hamill who have all played more AFL than him.

We're arguing different things.

I'm not suggesting he plays in the AFL. We have too many players already who need games for their development.

He's a better piece for their development in the two's than the 80th best 18 year old. He understands structures and roles and would be a good supporting piece for others.

He's there to help the better, younger racehorse learn how to run properly.