Delisted Adrian Dodoro - Lodged a dispute with FairWork. Paid out. Gone. #putoutyourjackets

[ant555]

We talk about lack of balance in the midfield - how about defence? I am concerned we generally prioritise getting in playmakers over stoppers. I understand our midfield doesn't put pressure on opposing mids as much so the ball will come into our back 50 with accuracy and defending that is harder.

Also I saw Reid was beaten by opponents being quicker a couple of times in your VFL reports I assume this will only be amplified at the top level. At testing time from memory he was average or below average speed wise.

Not all forwards are fast so Reid will get a match up however I would not argue with your view on defenders either. Right now we have to hang our hat on the under sized lot that are currently playing and the unproven bunch of Reid , Cox , Brand , Erye and McBride. The fact we have 5 tall defenders all with less than 3 years experience is a bit all or nothing even if say 3 of them end up being good enough in the next couple of years.

 

[Yoda_]

So I watched that Show Me The Money doco on Stan.

This moron couldn't figure out where Dunstan would fit in out midfield.

According to RDO, Dunstan didn't get past a discussion with Dodoro while Dunstan spoke to Dew and Melbourne's brains trust were making presentations.

It puts the supposed chase for Hewett into context doesn't it?

He just doesn't get it.

Are you a big advocate of simply best available, especially early rounds of the draft?

 

[calyam]

Individual draft picks are irrelevant to assessing Dodoro's performance. List management is vastly more complex and there is, to date, no evidence that Dodoro is capable of doing that well. He accumulates talent without consideration of fit or synergies or team needs.

Plenty of well regarded coaches and assistants have had a crack at the lists that Dodoro creates. Every single one of them has failed.

And that's why we know that he should be sacked. No football club with any self respect would have kept him around for even half as long.

 

[BrunoV]

Are you a big advocate of simply best available, especially early rounds of the draft?

No

I want to get into this in detail but I don't really have time at the moment.

In my view the 2015 draft is the playing out of the "best available" falacy.

If you look at how the discussion surrounds the 'best available' it means the best performed at under-age level.

It's one of a number of criteria but I wouldn't have it as the most significant.

The skill is in working out: 1) how what the player does will translate to AFL level; and 2) how that fits in with the team and list you have now and in the future.

So with Parish the question is how important is accumulation really and how will his inside and outside games look among men? What players will you need to compliment him with?

In relation to Francis, he's immature (there are numerous examples of him displaying this in his early VFL career), he's not big enough for a key post and he's a poor endurance athlete.

What then, is the best available?

 

[Ants]

Individual draft picks are irrelevant to assessing Dodoro's performance. List management is vastly more complex and there is, to date, no evidence that Dodoro is capable of doing that well. He accumulates talent without consideration of fit or synergies or team needs.

Plenty of well regarded coaches and assistants have had a crack at the lists that Dodoro creates. Every single one of them has failed.

And that's why we know that he should be sacked. No football club with any self respect would have kept him around for even half as long.

Except what type of players we should get would be something driven by the coaches. Additionally, if all of these coaches think the team was fatally flawed, why haven't they been saying this? Why wasn't Hird, Thompson, Worsfold, Rutten going to the DOF/CEO/Board and saying our recruiting is flawed? Why aren't the assistant coaches who've come from other teams, often successful ones, screaming this out?

So maybe, all of the experts, many of whom have come from other clubs, actually disagree with you. Which is why he is still here.

 

[yodellinhank]

The young bloke with the blond mullet at the bulldogs goes alright…

Gotta love the retrospective drafting experts.

It is probably time to flick Dodoro but not because he picked Francis!

Because he picked Myers.

 

[DERO]

Because he picked Myers.

Rhys Palmer

 

[DERO]

yodellinhank should've taken Danger!

 

[Ants]

Instead of engaging in a lengthy discussion about Dodoro (which we've done ad nauseam on here), I will clarify by saying a lot of the commentary you categorise as "hindsight" were common positions held by many Essendon supporters including me at the time. I'm not including anything I didn't say. McGrath is the only one that I was genuinely line-ball on because he brought something different ....

I'm not criticising Dodoro for things that were completely unforseeable (eg missing Nat Fyfe or selecting David Myers) because that's not fair. I'm not criticising him for selecting Gumbleton because again, it's not within his control. Some of the things I mentioned is NOT a hindsight issue. It was something many people said at the time.

That doesn't matter, its still hindsight. Unless you're listing out every pick you wanted for every pick we had over a 3-5 year period, you're only referring to ones that either you or the board zeitgeist got right. The selection process is inherently biased, and still based on hindsight. When 8 other teams of full time professional recruiters (Parker, Mathieson) or 17 (Dunkley) select players over your preferenced player, that indicates that there was a strong view that the player wasn't as good.

Good you mentioned Heppell because he is one that should never have been the main inside mid. He should have had bigger bodies around him to support him so that he could maintain the form he displayed in his AA year. Instead, we ran him into the ground because of the little support we provided him in the middle.

He literally had 1-2 seasons where he was the main main before a foot injury caused his woes (Watson left end 2017, Heppell injured late 2019). How on earth is that running him into the ground as the main man? I mean, he started getting really injured after we brought in Shiel. Which whatever you say about if he's tall enough, clearly attracted a lot of the opposition attention.

And maybe if there had been better development/injury management of Langford, Lav, Clarke, Mutch, Begley, Mynott who were all drafted 2014-2016 then there would have been more support. Clarke especially although limited would have provided someone who was defensive, hard working and very good at the clearances. If we had to 'protect Heppell', the coaches could have. And Clarke was dominant at VFL level, its not like we'd have been brining him in off nothing.

This was also the period where Parish spent more time as small forward than a pure mid. If the coaches play him as a mid, then maybe Heppell has less attention and we don't go out and get Shiel and then Caldwell.

Finally, I pointed out in the Strategy/make-up of the list at how bad we are at extending players careers. Apart from Heppell's fade away, both Howlett and Hocking are only now 34. At other teams they could have been playing to 31/32, which means they'd have played up to 2019-2020 odd and providing support. Hell, Myers is only 33 now so the same applies. If we can't keep players on the park which means their careers are shorter, its harder to build a side with as much quality.

Culture and development is a real issue sure, but you can't tell me that the current midfield is not his doing given we've been calling to balance the midfield for over 10 years. You're right with the forwardline and how that is mostly not his fault. The defence has always been good so that's not his fault. But the midfield? That is his fault and the midfield is the reason why we haven't won a final in 18 years.

I don't think the midfield is the issue most here do. I think the game plan is a much bigger issue. In the 2012-2013 period the midfield was going strong, the saga stuffed us. I believe good coaching works with talent, bad coaching is inflexible.

That is his fault and the midfield is the reason why we haven't won a final in 18 years.

Well, if we'd kicked straight and not had the bad umpiring we might have won last year. In 2014 without injuries to key defenders and the coaches refusal to give Steinberg any H&A games before selecting him for a final, we possibly win that. In 2013 Dodoro didn't create the saga which had a team in the top 4 banned from finals. And those saga periods were clearly our best, finishing with 14 and 12 wins despite the saga issues.

But the biggest issue for not winning a final is the number of times we've pushed too far, too fast. Since 2009 we've made the finals with 10.5 (twice), 10 and 11 wins (twice). Across that same period (since 2009) the other teams who finished 8th got (excluding 2013 & 2020) 11, 14, 13, 12, 13 and 12 wins. Essendon has been happy to scrape into finals in weak years, rather than doing a full rebuild and spending a few years down the bottom. Even our worst "bottom" periods (2005-2008, 2015 & 2016) we only once outside of the saga year finished with less than 6 wins. 2006, when there is a strong suspicion we tanked.

Essendon has refused to rebuild, and that's cost us.

 

[Happyskeret]

I don’t really care if Dodo has been a good or bad recruiter! I just think if he stands down it will give the club some clean air to start the next chapter regardless of how the story will unfold. He’s had a long career time to give someone else a go.

 

[Ants]

I still question 2020.
Reid, cox, eyre and brand added to zerk, ridley, francis and mcbride as developing tall defenders.

We should have gone one of reid or cox at the most and looked at o'driscoll.
But is what it is now.

This must have been a conscious club decision. They knew there was good odds of getting Reid & Cox, that we'd picked up Wright, Jones, McBride and Jones the previous year and would be able to match on Eyre and Brand. We also then took Baldwin.

I assume there was a decision to deliberately target talls to rebuild the spine, which is what comments elsewhere afterwards did reference. This would have to be a decision agreed on by coaching and should have flagged we were rebuilding given how long talls take to develop, even without COVID. Any functioning club this should be something the board, CEO, DOF and coaches are all on board with. Certainly the videos show Rutten very involved with the pre-draft discussions.

In which case I find unlikely that this strategy can be pinned on Dodoro. Also, I will freely admit I agree with building the spine first.

Someone a few pages ago, maybe even elsewhere suggested that Dodoro is always playing catch up with the trends in the AFL and with Rutten we were trying to do the Tigers thing when it seems to appear we (a) didn't have the cattle and (b) that trend was slowly dying out anyways. Another Dodoro masterclass no one can deny.

Which surely must be driven by the coaches? The coaches must be the ones setting the planned gameplan, and thus the players they need to play it. Surely.

If Dodoro is consistently drafting against the 'type' of player the coach wants then there is an issue. I just dont have any evidence of that?

Until then, thats just an assumption by some on here

Exactly.

 

[Ants]

I don’t really care if Dodo has been a good or bad recruiter! I just think if he stands down it will give the club some clean air to start the next chapter regardless of how the story will unfold. He’s had a long career time to give someone else a go.

If his replacement is a bad recruiter, it sets us back years. Unless we're sure we can get someone better (or good odds of it) then we're better staying with him.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Its as if some people on here believe they couldve done a better job than Dodoro

In the mirco for sure but in the marco the majority of the board wanted Parker, Curnow and McCluggage. Those three picks alone make the side infinitely better that the flow on effect of leadership to lesser talents would outweigh the wider spread of decent afl talent.

 

[Happyskeret]

If his replacement is a bad recruiter, it sets us back years. Unless we're sure we can get someone better (or good odds of it) then we're better staying with him.

Look I get what you are saying and I totally understand if they keep him around this year as he is probably in mid discussions with some players. They need to look to the future though if that means to groom someone else or do their due diligence on selecting the next one.

 

[jmoo wan]

If his replacement is a bad recruiter, it sets us back years. Unless we're sure we can get someone better (or good odds of it) then we're better staying with him.

honestly though - how hard can it be?

 

[Old Campaigner]

honestly though - how hard can it be?

Shane Rogers likes this

 

[Keystone agony]

In the mirco for sure but in the marco the majority of the board wanted Parker, Curnow and McCluggage. Those three picks alone make the side infinitely better that the flow on effect of leadership to lesser talents would outweigh the wider spread of decent afl talent.

Personally i think Mcluggage would be pretty avg at Essendon if he came to us, like Mcgrath. Mcluggage is also a huge one way down hill runner.

I just cant agree that people on here wouldve got a better selection of players over the past 5-10 years than our recruiting manager if thats what your suggesting

 

[DERO]

honestly though - how hard can it be?

Surely we can just get Eth dog or EDPS to do it.

 

[Happyskeret]

Some recruiters pick the best available players others pick what will suit their structural needs are. Some pick who will have best leadership ability. I believe the way to go is to strengthen your structure it’s not rocket science.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Personally i think Mcluggage would be pretty avg at Essendon if he came to us, like Mcgrath. Mcluggage is also a huge one way down hill runner.

I just cant agree that people on here wouldve got a better selection of players over the past 5-10 years than our recruiting manager if thats what your suggesting

The question isn’t would McCullage be good in our current team, it’s would he be better next to Luke Parker.

The star players matter the most. The board in a few specific instances has wanted players that would have fundamentally changed the structure of the team for the positive.

 

[jmoo wan]

Surely we can just get Eth dog or EDPS to do it.

exactly! you can’t got through the 18 months before trade week without half a dozen amateur draft watchers ranking the 100 draftees in pretty much the same position and not be able to claim some knowledge as your own

 

[ant555]

If his replacement is a bad recruiter, it sets us back years. Unless we're sure we can get someone better (or good odds of it) then we're better staying with him.

We are not replacing the head of recruiting. He is the GM of list and recruiting. It is actually the easiest role to replace in the footy department even though it is an important role. If he went now we would still have RFK and his team who have been doing all the under 18 work so that side is covered and the GM of footy can work the rest. Not that he is going before any of this happens anyway.

 

[eth-dog]

Surely we can just get Eth dog or EDPS to do it.

I have the bigger ego so I'll be Dodo
He's a better judge of talent so he'll be RFK

Perfect

 

[ant555]

I have the bigger ego so I'll be Dodo
He's a better judge of talent so he'll be RFK

Perfect

Can I be the GM of footy

 

[eth-dog]

Can I be the GM of footy

Yep, let's do this.