AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

[Badger17]

News limited owned the Storm until 2013 and tit is now owned by a business associated of the murchochs.

They have a got a very good run. More generally, the Storm have benefited from SEN's relationship with the NRL and so getting substantial access to the AFL audience and have had a decent run on channel 9 fairfax.

The Courier Mail actually got rid of all AFL writers at one point despite the game being objectively far more popular in Brisbane than League is in Melbourne.

You are completely wrong




The News Limited thinks it owns rugby league. Murdoch made a snide remark that one time when the NRL dared sign a TV deal without its approval. Hardly an argument against the NRL generally getting relatively favourable coverage by news limited.

Conveniently ignoring every point I made doesn't make me wrong.

The Storm were sold over a decade ago.

The Super League War happened, and without getting into a massive history lesson, News' behaviour during that time can at best be described as extremely morally questionable.

They are directly responsible for multiple RL clubs both here in Australia and in the UK folding (i.e. literally pulled the trigger), and for many more going bankrupt or being crippled. To make it as clear as possible, many of the clubs they are responsible for offing were reasonably successful (by the standards of the time), and could have continued to this day except for the fact that they didn't fit News' 'vision' for the sport.

News did abuse their position to underpay for broadcasting rights and actively suppress the NRL's growth in the post SL era, and you simply don't know what you're talking about if you're denying that.

Rupert's stunt in 2015 isn't the only example of them using competitors to undermine or attack the RL any time they stepped out of line either. Super Rugby owes it's existence to News being frustrated with RL and wanting to turn the screws for example. In fact the whole sport of RU, globally, only went pro when it did, how it did, because of the SL war and News being unscrupulous bastards.

The existence of a RL focused radio show, that nobody under the age 45 even knows exists, and hosted by two of biggest out of touch flogs in RL, doesn't change any of the above either. You're also truly delusional if you really believe that we couldn't come up with numerous examples of AFL associated media and personalities saying incredibly silly things about RL and the NRL as well.

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I'm failing to see the grand conspiracy when, if anything, News has done more damage to RL than any single entity on the planet other than arguably RU.

 

[The_Wookie]

Conveniently ignoring every point I made doesn't make me wrong.

The Storm were sold over a decade ago.

The Super League War happened, and without getting into a massive history lesson, News' behaviour during that time can at best be described as extremely morally questionable.

They are directly responsible for multiple RL clubs both here in Australia and in the UK folding (i.e. literally pulled the trigger), and for many more going bankrupt or being crippled. To make it as clear as possible, many of the clubs they are responsible for offing were reasonably successful (by the standards of the time), and could have continued to this day except for the fact that they didn't fit News' 'vision' for the sport.

News did abuse their position to underpay for broadcasting rights and actively suppress the NRL's growth in the post SL era, and you simply don't know what you're talking about if you're denying that.

Rupert's stunt in 2015 isn't the only example of them using competitors to undermine or attack the RL any time they stepped out of line either. Super Rugby owes it's existence to News being frustrated with RL and wanting to turn the screws for example. In fact the whole sport of RU, globally, only went pro when it did, how it did, because of the SL war and News being unscrupulous bastards.

The existence of a RL focused radio show, that nobody under the age 45 even knows exists, and hosted by two of biggest out of touch flogs in RL, doesn't change any of the above either. You're also truly delusional if you really believe that we couldn't come up with numerous examples of AFL associated media and personalities saying incredibly silly things about RL and the NRL as well.

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I'm failing to see the grand conspiracy when, if anything, News has done more damage to RL than any single entity on the planet other than arguably RU.

Rugby Union went pro in 1995 and Super12 started in 1996. Superleague was 1997 (even if its roots began in 1994), and the ARLC took over in 2012.

Youll have to excuse us for not joining in the pity party that has been the forever running saga that blames News Limited for everything since Superleague.

 

[Badger17]

This is an interesting take coz what I'm reading from you is staggering bias, which you're famous for in here being a league man.

I'm not a "league man", you're confusing my moderate position for bias because I'm not strictly adhering to the AFL party line and presenting you with information you'd prefer discount out of hand. You're no different than a political partisan.

The blokes on League Unlimited claim I'm an 'AFL troll' for the exact same reason that you're calling me a 'league man' right now. It's pretty funny actually.

 

[Badger17]

Rugby Union went pro in 1995 and Super12 started in 1996. Superleague was 1997 (even if its roots began in 1994), and the ARLC took over in 2012.

Youll have to excuse us for not joining in the pity party that has been the forever running saga that blames News Limited for everything since Superleague.

News Limited tried to buy the NSWRL/ARL's pay tv rights as early as 1993, but couldn't because the NSWRL had given them to Kerry Packer effectively for free as part of their broadcast deal with Nine in 1991.

Super League proper had been proposed behind the scenes by discontents at the Broncos at about the same time in 1993, and went into planning behind the scenes quickly after that point. Attempts were made by News and their supporters to takeover the league legitimately during that time, culminating in the original proposal for SL being presented to the ARL and clubs at a meeting in Dec 94/Jan 95, where Kerry Packer when on a famous rant where he threatened to sue anybody that signed with Super League, and the proposal failed.

At that point the ARL seemed to believe that SL had been put to bed and tried to move on, but behind the scenes News had a plan B and the war proper started in April 1995 when News and their supporters launched a clandestine campaign to sign clubs and players to join their rival league.

The intention was for SL to kick-off in 1996, but legal proceedings and a court order prevented that and it was delayed until 1997.

Very early on figures in RU in Australia and New Zealand were sounded out by News and Broncos representatives about their interest in working for SL, and the $$$ being thrown around spooked them. They were afraid that RU would be incapable of competing with the money on offer in RL if News got control, and probably legitimately so, but the unions, believing that SL was a pipedream, tried to ignore it in the hope that it would go away, which lead to another organisation (the name of which I can't remember for the life of me) popping up and effectively attempting to become RU's version of the SL. That organisation didn't get too far initially, but it did get the attention of the Unions outside of the pacific region and the WRB, and alerted them to what was happening.

Once the SL war went hot in 95, and the money actually started being thrown around, the WRB and members of what would become SANZAR quickly saw the writing on the wall and organise meetings straight away. In fear of RU losing it's top talent to RL the Union equivalent of SL had started trying to sign players to contracts in the same manner as SL was doing, but the Unions largely gazumped both them and SL itself by sending out a message to every player saying don't sign anything with anyone until you've given us a chance to counter offer.

They (ARU, NZRU, and SARU) then rushed together a proposal that would see the Super 10 provincial competition go professional and be expanded to Super 12, took that proposal to News, who, because of the legal proceedings in RL, were now aware that they were likely going to have a gap in their sport broadcasting for the the launch season of Foxtel, and made a deal.

SANZAR going pro, and to varying extents the RFL joining Super League and PSG launching a club in it, forced the rest of the big Unions to go pro as quickly as possible, or at least attempt to go pro, and the rest is history.

Not everything that's happened in RL since the war is News' fault, and nobody was claiming that it was, however RL's relationship to News is intrinsically linked to SL, the war, and the period of ownership in it's aftermath, and it's ridiculous to suggest that News has treated RL as anything other than a means to make money.

 

[RedV3x]

It is not an outrageous suggestion.

But keeping on suggesting it is tiresome.

 

[RedV3x]

News Limited...

If you're not a troll what's with the history lesson.

 

[Walshawk]

Might not be outrageous, but it is stupid. Canberra already has a footy market, but the potential to be a small niche club like the suns. Also, they should be team 20. The west of Sydney has less of a footy culture, but the growth potential is amazing and in time they could be a massive club like the swans. In fact, they are tracking similarly, if not in front of the swans at the same stage.

It's like you've only started watching footy 10 years ago and never saw the early years of the swans and bears. Even Port and Freo had struggles around that 10 to 15 year mark, before the second generation of fan blossomed. It's like you're begging it to fail coz a leaguie living up in Sydney told you it will, hoping the afl will pull the pin, coz it's a threat to their own favourite sport.

Actually, it’s not like that at all. I don’t think the Giants should go to Canberra. I think they should get the hell out of there and have a proper crack at Sydney.

To compare the Giants of 2024 with the Swans and Lions of 30 - 40 years ago is folly.

In their early days, those clubs were a novelty in their markets. They were underfunded, had little support from the VFL/AFL, and when crowds were down it was usually due to being horrible onfield. The Giants have none of those disadvantages. They have the opposite.

NRL and AFL crowds are up 50% since Swans/Bears early days. NRL crowds in Sydney and Swans crowds are up considerably since 2012, yet the Giants graph is flat. In relative terms they are going backwards. Junior numbers in Western Sydney have nit grown either. All of the growth is in the eastern suburbs, inner west and north of the Parramatta river.

The Giants were created to increase AFL presence in Sydney, in particular the broadcast rights. Yet the Giants don’t generate any more eyeballs in Sydney than Collingwood, Carlton or Hawthorn (and most other clubs). The AFL thought at the time that they could create a natural divide/rivalry in Sydney by dividing east and west. Western Sydney starts about where Homebush/Showgrounds is but the problem is that very few people in the area have any interest. It is hardcore NRL territory and unlikely to ever change.

To continue on with the same strategy would be the definition of insanity.

I am sure that there are many solutions. Here a some of my ideas:

Shift the focus slightly eastward and instead of trying to appeal to ‘Greater Western Sydney’, become the club for people west of the SCG. The inner west (a 5k radius around Henson Park) where AFL is strong, should one day be Giants turf rather than Swans.

Surely it is time to play all home games in Sydney. Keep the current eight Showgrounds games, and play Sydney, and two of Pies/Blues/Bombers/Tigers/Hawks/Cats @ SCG (one at Easter). With the Swans games virtually at capacity, you would sell 10k four game SCG memberships the first season, and the Giants crowds average would go from 11k to 15k. Also, play any finals likely to draw more than 22k @ SCG.

While you are at it

• shorten the brand name to Western Sydney or West Sydney. It is imperative to have the word Sydney on the ladder and fixtures rather than the virtually never used anywhere else acronym ‘GWS’.
• Rezone the Giants recruitment/promotional zone to include places like Bankstown and the inner west. That some genuine western suburbs are in the Swans zone is crazy. The Giants AFLW team should have Henson Park to themselves once Showring Oval next the the SCG is ready.

Considerations.
1. But the SCG is not in Western Sydney!
No, neither is Manuka Oval. Surely is it better to gain a Giants fan in Newtown rather than one in Belconnen?

2. But why would they give up home ground advantage in the ‘Battle of the Bridge’?
The Giants would have a similar set up to how Geelong splits their games between KP and MCG. The Cats have certainly not suffered any disadvantage in their version of a derby, the games V Hawks, having won more than two thirds of the games played at Hawthorn’s home ground since 2008. Having half the ground filled with your fans mitigates any perceived advantage. The Giants have a decent record @ SCG and that would build.

3. But the Giants have a contract to play three games in Canberra until 2032!
This is any easy one. As my friend BJO points out, most Manuka attendees are footy fans rather than Giants fans, so it matters little who plays there. The AFL can vary the contract just like they did when St Kilda pulled out of Tassie. And with Hawthorn and North Tassie contracts ending in 2025, certainly by 2028 when Tassie enter there will be 6 - 8 games that need to be played elsewhere. Personally I would have North playing in NT, with Hawks and Dees paying two each in Canberra, but that is a separate discussion.

There would be many other ways to reset the strategy and generate some actual growth. I am sure I can think of more after I hit Post reply, but I need to get back to work.

if nothing changes, then nothing changes.

GO GIANTS!

 

[The_Wookie]

it's ridiculous to suggest that News has treated RL as anything other than a means to make money.

Its ridiculous to believe that News hasnt treated any sport it has covered as anything other than a means to make money.
its literally its fiduciary duty as a corporation by law - especially with shareholders involved.

 

[RedV3x]

A Giants move out of Sydney would be an absolute dream for the codes that don't want an AFL team encroaching on Western Sydney OR two AFL teams in the same city.

The way you've written this (code-war like) using the word "encroaching" is at odds with.

It's rather unfortunate some footy fans only see the right now and not the longer term, generational strategy, but alas.

There is a reason why Australian Football is not played around the the world like it it is in Australia
and that is real access to the game. Real access means exposure to the game and a real opportunity play to the game.

Even with the hostile Sydney media AFL games are played weekly with four AFL games on television.
That is great exposure to Australian Football.
There is a bit of question mark how AFL NSW is getting the message across and giving residents the opportunity to play.
Of course there's always the problem of getting grounds to play on which always go to the incumbent.
The first step is getting Australian Football played in schools with school competitions.

My observation is that Giants fans in Sydney seem to be young and this is a good result.
The Giants and AFL NSW have to keep on growing the situation.
From the very beginning the AFL said it would take generational change.so why all the discussion ?

IMO it would be the most stupid suggestion ever to even talk about moving the Giants.
This year's onfield performance gives some promise for next year so it would be more appropriate to discuss then.

 

[RedV3x]

To compare the Giants of 2024 with the Swans and Lions of 30 - 40 years ago is folly.

Agree

The Giants were created to increase AFL presence in Sydney, in particular the broadcast rights.

Agree

the problem is that very few people in the area have any interest.

Now, some people have an interest in AFL

It is hardcore NRL territory and unlikely to ever change.

Wrong. You never set out to "convert" people. You are trying to find people overlooked (for want of a better word) and grow on that. One problem is the high proportion of immigrants who play soccer.

To continue on with the same strategy would be the definition of insanity.

What strategy exactly are you referring too ?

 

[The Educator]

I'm not a "league man", you're confusing my moderate position for bias because I'm not strictly adhering to the AFL party line and presenting you with information you'd prefer discount out of hand. You're no different than a political partisan.

The blokes on League Unlimited claim I'm an 'AFL troll' for the exact same reason that you're calling me a 'league man' right now. It's pretty funny actually.

You are actually the worst kind of biased - blind.

You posting behaviour clearly shows that your affinities are primarily anchored in the NRL / raiders.

There is nothing wrong with that but as soon as you start trying to assert you are free of bias, you are really only showing you don't do critical thinking

And thus rants like this are completely devoid of any clear coherent logic.....

Conveniently ignoring every point I made doesn't make me wrong.

The Storm were sold over a decade ago.

The Super League War happened, and without getting into a massive history lesson, News' behaviour during that time can at best be described as extremely morally questionable.

They are directly responsible for multiple RL clubs both here in Australia and in the UK folding (i.e. literally pulled the trigger), and for many more going bankrupt or being crippled. To make it as clear as possible, many of the clubs they are responsible for offing were reasonably successful (by the standards of the time), and could have continued to this day except for the fact that they didn't fit News' 'vision' for the sport.

News did abuse their position to underpay for broadcasting rights and actively suppress the NRL's growth in the post SL era, and you simply don't know what you're talking about if you're denying that.

Rupert's stunt in 2015 isn't the only example of them using competitors to undermine or attack the RL any time they stepped out of line either. Super Rugby owes it's existence to News being frustrated with RL and wanting to turn the screws for example. In fact the whole sport of RU, globally, only went pro when it did, how it did, because of the SL war and News being unscrupulous bastards.

The existence of a RL focused radio show, that nobody under the age 45 even knows exists, and hosted by two of biggest out of touch flogs in RL, doesn't change any of the above either. You're also truly delusional if you really believe that we couldn't come up with numerous examples of AFL associated media and personalities saying incredibly silly things about RL and the NRL as well.

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I'm failing to see the grand conspiracy when, if anything, News has done more damage to RL than any single entity on the planet other than arguably RU.

Nobody is saying that News Limited has been good for rugby league. The point is they have been directly financially invested and have promoted it accordingly.

More generally, and beyond News Limited, the point is that there is a culture within NRL media land, including News, where it is taboo to be seen as promoting "AFL"

There is no symmetry here. It doesn't matter that some AFL media personality has said something mean about NRL. The point is that there is no equivalent to Matty Johns getting pulled in to line for promoting the AFL within AFL media circles. A tonne of AFL media personalities have promoted the NRL and the idea they would get in trouble for it is laughable. T

Likewise implying there is symmetry between here and league unlimited. Just absurd.

There is no grand conspiracy. Just a threatened culture that feels it needs to circle the wagons to repel the AFL

 

[dave10]

Anyway, back on the subject at hand.

ABC612am Brisbane are doing their Brekky show live on site in Flinders Street today. Guest appearances from Lions Chairman and lots of focus on the Lions. Basically a Lions show. Sights and sounds in background of trans dinging bells, great vibe coming through the airwaves.

No question this wouldn’t have happened 10 years ago. The Lions are certainly gaining traction in the SEQ. Great to witness. Gill / Andrew and crew deserve credit for how they’ve grown the game in expansion markets.

Whilst in the other sport, they’ve just sacked their coach. A year after they were in the GF! Over to you, AFL / Lions to take the limelight.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Anyway, back on the subject at hand.

ABC612am Brisbane are doing their Brekky show live on site in Flinders Street today. Guest appearances from Lions Chairman and lots of focus on the Lions. Basically a Lions show. Sights and sounds in background of trans dinging bells, great vibe coming through the airwaves.

No question this wouldn’t have happened 10 years ago. The Lions are certainly gaining traction in the SEQ. Great to witness. Gill / Andrew and crew deserve credit for how they’ve grown the game in expansion markets.

Whilst in the other sport, they’ve just sacked their coach. A year after they were in the GF! Over to you, AFL / Lions to take the limelight.

I wonder if the Storm will get the same sort of coverage if they make the NRL grand final?

 

[TheGoldPersons]

Is the Broncos firing Walters on this week of all weeks to take focus off the Lions real or just a conspiracy?

 

[Bjo187]

I wonder if the Storm will get the same sort of coverage if they make the NRL grand final?

Getting upset that the afl is getting good coverage up north are you mate? You can go have a cry over at your nrl or soccer forum if ya like.