NT Alice Springs: 2024 Curfew

[Gethelred]

Beneath the Alice Springs ‘crime wave’ are complex issues – and a lot of politics

Alcohol has long been identified as the key problem in Alice Springs crime - and bans and policing its primary solutions. But that is far too simplistic, which is why is hasn’t worked.

www.google.com

Even Albo's copping some heat:

Albanese condemned by NT politicians over inaction in Alice

Two prominent politicians from Alice Springs have slammed the Albanese Government’s response to the town’s intensifying crime crisis as inadequate.

www.google.com

Go nuts. Standard board rules apply.

 

[tandino]

Beneath the Alice Springs ‘crime wave’ are complex issues – and a lot of politics

Alcohol has long been identified as the key problem in Alice Springs crime - and bans and policing its primary solutions. But that is far too simplistic, which is why is hasn’t worked.

www.google.com

Even Albo's copping some heat:

Albanese condemned by NT politicians over inaction in Alice

Two prominent politicians from Alice Springs have slammed the Albanese Government’s response to the town’s intensifying crime crisis as inadequate.

www.google.com

Go nuts. Standard board rules apply.

Even Albo? He's a politician, not some deity.

 

[Gethelred]

Even Albo? He's a politician, not some deity.

He's the prime minister, not the local police chief.

 

[tandino]

The crime wave is certainly troubling, it wouldn't be accepted in a capital city so there's no reason why it should be dismissed.

It's a demonstration of the failures of Government policy and the complexity of the issues that underline Indigenous disadvantage in that region. It's also an opportunity to showcase the apparent chew-gum-and-walk ability of Governments and society at large, and a case study on the power and limitations of a prospective Voice.

 

[tandino]

He's the prime minister, not the local police chief.

It's not a local policing issue, it's a consequence of Comm Govt policy failings.

 

[Gethelred]

It's not a local policing issue, it's a consequence of Comm Govt policy failings.

... you do understand that's the relevance of pointing out that Albanese is involved, right?

 

[tandino]

... you do understand that's the relevance of pointing out that Albanese is involved, right?

So why the shock over the heat?

 

[Freo Big Fella]

The idea this is only being talked about because of the voice is ridiculous - Dutton's opportunism doesn't cancel out the fact that locals (and local media) have been highlighting these issues for years.

And when you're seeing violence to the degree we're seeing in Alice (and the Kimberley, and FNQ), sadly short term solutions are needed to protect the community - including things like more police, liquor restrictions and tougher approaches to bail in certain cases - because if you don't enact them, you wind up with a situation where the people needed to enact the longer term solutions (doctors, teachers, nurses, social workers et al) refuse to live and work there because it's too dangerous.

Unfortunately, "complexity" has become a bit of a convenient byword to allow governments (both state and federal) to kick the can down the road and avoid taking any concrete action to address the long-term failings (of both sides of politics) on things like education, housing, mental health etc.

 

[Kram]

Two challenges have collided for Albanese — and what happens next is an early test

 

[campbell]

Nothing new in the Alice sadly.

Nearly 10 years ago I was offered work there, being called the murder capital of Australia, made me say no.

Eons before that, we went there to visit hubbys uncle, was the same then.

Its a rogue outlaw town, sadly.

Alcohol restrictions are not the answer alone.

 

[QuietB]

Nothing new in the Alice sadly.

Nearly 10 years ago I was offered work there, being called the murder capital of Australia, made me say no.

Eons before that, we went there to visit hubbys uncle, was the same then.

Its a rogue outlaw town, sadly.

Alcohol restrictions are not the answer alone.

I went to Alice in the mid 90's to work for a bit. You had to run the gauntlet just to go through the bottle shop drive through then. It is just the usual opportunistic bullshit by Dutton.

The government Dutton was a senior minister in had 9 years to fix it and did nothing. Except give Abbott a pretend job so he could get a little pay rise for a while - grifters gonna grift.

 

[Schneebly11]

The government Dutton was a senior minister in had 9 years to fix it and did nothing. Except give Abbott a pretend job so he could get a little pay rise for a while - grifters gonna grift.

Even more so the right’s new darling, Jacinta Price, was a councillor in Alice for 6 years.

I’d like to hear how crime in Alice plummeted while she was on the council

 

[Power Raid]

Having worked with indigenous groups in the NT and WA I noted the following:

• those over 70 were big and strong
• there was no one over 35
• there was no one over 25 without diabetes and most had lost a leg
• there was no one between the age 12 and 25

• the 12 to 18yo were in towns, like Kal, having to fend for themselves as the community wasn't feeding them
• the 18 - 25yo were now on the dole and could buy their booze and food which resulted in diabetes

based on the elders view, the thing that destroyed their culture and society was "sit down" money. To identify the actual cause of the issue is important, otherwise by blaming unfair treatment and other REAL injustices may feel good but it doesn't resolve the issue.



the challenge from here is to somehow get communities motivated again. to somehow give people a reason to get up in the morning, to motivate people to engage and participate, to somehow get people eating well, sleeping well and not drinking.

this is a massive challenge as there is alcohol foetal syndrome, peer group pressure, a lack of opportunity and a lack of leaders.

the reality is it will take time and if we can create more and more leaders, in every next generation, we will close the gap. One thing that works is people putting themselves in "uncomfortable situations. We see the success of migrants to this country and succeeding with no contacts, language issues and cultural challenges.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Having worked with indigenous groups in the NT and WA I noted the following:

• those over 70 were big and strong
• there was no one over 35
• there was no one over 25 without diabetes and most had lost a leg
• there was no one between the age 12 and 25

• the 12 to 18yo were in towns, like Kal, having to fend for themselves as the community wasn't feeding them
• the 18 - 25yo were now on the dole and could buy their booze and food which resulted in diabetes

based on the elders view, the thing that destroyed their culture and society was "sit down" money. To identify the actual cause of the issue is important, otherwise by blaming unfair treatment and other REAL injustices may feel good but it doesn't resolve the issue.



the challenge from here is to somehow get communities motivated again. to somehow give people a reason to get up in the morning, to motivate people to engage and participate, to somehow get people eating well, sleeping well and not drinking.

this is a massive challenge as there is alcohol foetal syndrome, peer group pressure, a lack of opportunity and a lack of leaders.

the reality is it will take time and if we can create more and more leaders, in every next generation, we will close the gap. One thing that works is people putting themselves in "uncomfortable situations. We see the success of migrants to this country and succeeding with no contacts, language issues and cultural challenges.

Oppotunity, Bored youth with nothing to do.

And no its not "This government failed", Its not "oh recent goverments failed" It's generations of governments have failed and havent given a shit

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It's easy to demand simplistic solutions like alcohol bans and more police. The greater question is why the systemic issues behind the problem have been allowed to build up. Why have successive governments not invested more in mental health care, education, employment and community services in Alice Springs before now?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Oppotunity, Bored youth with nothing to do.

And no its not "This government failed", Its not "oh recent goverments failed" It's generations of governments have failed and havent given a s**t

Exactly but what the usual suspects on here place blame 100% on Dutton or Albo. Its just so dumb.

 

[Coolangatta]

It's easy to demand simplistic solutions like alcohol bans and more police. The greater question is why the systemic issues behind the problem have been allowed to build up. Why have successive governments not invested more in mental health care, education, employment and community services in Alice Springs before now?

Because no one wants to live or work there. Increased employment opportunities require more investment from businesses but they’d be reluctant to do so because they don’t want their property trashed and staff harmed.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Because no one wants to live or work there. Increased employment opportunities require more investment from businesses but they’d be reluctant to do so because they don’t want their property trashed and staff harmed.

Pay people enough money and give them bodyguards and they'll work in tough places. PNG and Congo still get foreign workers willing to go there. And I'm referring to government investment.

 

[Power Raid]

Oppotunity, Bored youth with nothing to do.

And no its not "This government failed", Its not "oh recent goverments failed" It's generations of governments have failed and havent given a s**t

100%

I saw this growing up in Adelaide and seeing suburbs around Elizabeth where families had generations of failure. There are no role models in the family or community showing a better way.

It is government's problem but NOT their fault. Individuals and families own this problem and until they own it (no matter how unfairly they may have been treated) they won't find a way out.

 

[burge13]

Asking for more government funding gets a big no vote from me. Redistribute the $30B already aimed at indigenous folks, programs, and issues. Thats $50k per head, per annum. More money is not the answer.

 

[Coolangatta]

Pay people enough money and give them bodyguards and they'll work in tough places. PNG and Congo still get foreign workers willing to go there. And I'm referring to government investment.

Yeah, I’ve thought that bringing in the army to protect people rather than enforce the law would be a better use of their presence there.

 

[Power Raid]

Asking for more government funding gets a big no vote from me. Redistribute the $30B already aimed at indigenous folks, programs, and issues. Thats $50k per head, per annum. More money is not the answer.

I don't mind financial help for those wanting assistance to set up businesses or other positive initiatives. this includes non-indigenous businesses in communities down on their luck, as these businesses become places of employment, training and motivation for the broader community.

I wouldn't waste money on drug and alcohol rehab. to stop taking drugs costs nothing other than making a decision.

 

[Power Raid]

Because no one wants to live or work there. Increased employment opportunities require more investment from businesses but they’d be reluctant to do so because they don’t want their property trashed and staff harmed.

With criminal negligence, directors could face jail time if staff were injured or killed. Adding to this "safe work environments" extend to mental health, which is obviously impacted if people don't feel they and their families are safe or even something as simple as sleeping well.

This just highlights how complex an issue becomes when things get out of control.

Boredom, drugs and alcohol, poor parenting, no leadership, no role models, no hope, health issues including brain damage prior to birth, poor diets, poor mental health...............where do you start?

The reality is the federal government has no role to play but rather fund and empower local and state governments. This is a grass roots issue.


One thing I would like to see is apprenticeships offered to 12yo kids or even younger (the age can be debated). If they aren't being fed properly, then school is a waste of time as they can't concentrate. If the parents waste money on booze and don't look after their kids, then kids need money to support themselves. Once kids learn to fend for themselves in a normal way (rather than having to steal for food), then we may have broken the cycle.

This is extreme for 2020s but we have to remember this is how it was in Oz and how it is in parts of the world today.

The cycle of failure can't be remedied at the parent level, this focus must be on the youth.

 

[Rob R]

I don't mind financial help for those wanting assistance to set up businesses or other positive initiatives. this includes non-indigenous businesses in communities down on their luck, as these businesses become places of employment, training and motivation for the broader community.

I wouldn't waste money on drug and alcohol rehab. to stop taking drugs costs nothing other than making a decision.

Investing in indigenous businesses is great as long as those businesses actually spend money on indigenous staff or suppliers. We have seen a few govt contracts where they went to indigenous companies but except for the few owners all the staff were whomever they could find mostly cheap backpackers and short term migrants. It was a lot better when we went into remote areas but still a lot of money ended up with non indigenous staff and sub contractors.

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[Rob R]

Yeah, I’ve thought that bringing in the army to protect people rather than enforce the law would be a better use of their presence there.

Putting aside the fact, the ADF is already massively under staffed, the Army aren't body guards and don't have a role protecting people from Australians only foreign threats.

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