List Mgmt. All Trades and Draft Part 2- Draft edition

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For those posters upset that we appear to be paying overs and that we could/should have held out to force a more favourable deal, spare a thought for Tim Kelly and his family

I’ve been anxiously waiting news about this trade, hopeful that this time we’d succeed in bringing him to the club. Ultimately it’s something that has zero impact on my life so I can only imagine how it must have been for Kelly given the massive impact this trade will have on him. It must have been nerve racking, especially after having gone through last year without getting his desired result

I’ve no doubt a factor in this trade would have been the desire to get it done early to alleviate any anxiety for Kelly and his family. If that has meant we’ve conceded a little more in negotiations then so be it

Can’t wait until this becomes official
 
whatis said:
Dreaming but how sweet would it be if we could convince Jack Steven to come to us right after the Kelly deal goes through (assuming it does). Take Geelong's plan B as well. Maybe Hickey can get in his ear about how good the WA retirement plan looks.
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No thanks is on $800k next year
 
Keys said:
For those posters upset that we appear to be paying overs and that we could/should have held out to force a more favourable deal, spare a thought for Tim Kelly and his family

I’ve been anxiously waiting news about this trade, hopeful that this time we’d succeed in bringing him to the club. Ultimately it’s something that has zero impact on my life so I can only imagine how it must have been for Kelly given the massive impact this trade will have on him. It must have been nerve racking, especially after having gone through last year without getting his desired result

I’ve no doubt a factor in this trade would have been the desire to get it done early to alleviate any anxiety for Kelly and his family. If that has meant we’ve conceded a little more in negotiations then so be it

Can’t wait until this becomes official
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Yes well said and we havent given up any players as well, which is a win.
Didnt want to lose Duggan
 

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Part of the issue with success, is that you don't get too many high draft choices. Getting the very best mids can be pot luck outside of the top 5 choices every year, and to get 1 of those you have to be Carlton or the Gold Coast of late, or, give up a decent player to effect early draft picks. I don't mind recycling others 3rd to 5th year mids, if it means some of the early development work has already been done on them, saves us resources, and list cloggers, and kids arent always great commodities against the bigger bodies early on in their careers.

Unearthing a potential great mid in the middle of the draft (Priddis 31, Swan 53) is rare, but they are there, but re-sourcing another clubs hand me downs can be very fruitful, and less guess work than an untried 65kg kid at Pick 40 who just happened to have a cracking U18 Carnival.

That said, we have spoken to a kid called Cassar from Western Jets who can find the pill, and may go later in the draft, but also a Bulldogs NGA player.
 
Monocle said:
HB35 - I have done a little re-write.

Don't see Rotham as a genuine KPD, but like him on a HBF

I think you could justify Cameron in that team, also while he is only a rookie I like Edwards.

Like you said young midfield depth is alarmingly thin and a real worry....well it should be.

Ainsworth has a massive * against him IMO, if he can't emerge in 2020 as a dominant WAFL player and improve his kicking then he is a bust.
Foley looks border line as a player of AFL quality, hoping I am wrong and he improves, but the times I have seen him he looks pretty bog average in the WAFL.

We are playing catch up with midfield talent ...... ( as we have been over the last half dozen years ) .... thats why we have had to pay a lot of draft capital to get Kelly.

We need to be astute and "get some luck" because we need to pick up some more midfield talent, by trading in or getting kissed on the dick and landing an UR Free Agent that we pick up with out having to surrender a draft pick for.

Our current team looks pretty solid in the next three years...... but still a hell of a lot of work to be done after that, with the list , if what we have above is the hope going forward.

Summary of the 25 and under team above

Good Back line. :whitecheck:
Good Forward line. :whitecheck:
First ruck : Williams, Kelly , Sheed. :thumbsu: Very Impressive.
Midfield talent after that looks bleak. :rotatinglight:

Now when have I ever heard that sort of assessment before ? ;)
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In 9 months that team loses Kelly.
 
Shuey
Yeo
Kelly
Gaff
Sheed
Redden

All being fed by Naitanui

If you’re not excited by that prospect then it’s time to follow another sport. Football isn’t for you
 
Vozzo's rolled onto his back if he hands over picks 14, 24, 33 and our 2020 first though and all we get back is Geelong's pick 36 this year. Got to keep 24. We've done well with those early second rounders lately.
 

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Shadow89 said:
We didn't exploit anything, lol. We were right to hold him, considering how he went to another level this year and netted us a higher return. We could argue that you guys exploited his situation to get him for less than his worth last year...and go through that whole cyclical argument again. I choose to view how both clubs acted this year, when he had every right to leave as he had served his contract.

Ablett was also rejected in his first time requesting a trade, and his sister then unfortunately passed on. Are GC monsters, or were they within their rights? Carlton held onto Gibbs, despite lure of home etc. We entertained the trade, but what you offered was less valuable than TK was to us (a fact proven during our semi final match up against you, his AA standing, and Top 5 Brownlow finish).

Regardless, you can hold a grudge, or you can move on. Even your mods agree that there was nothing wrong with holding onto him last year. It's done now.
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I think it is perfectly fair to claim Geelong acted poorly in 2018. You can't say we exploited anything when, ultimately, it was on your club whether he came home or not. We might not have offered enough substantial overs, but we weren't the ones with the power to release him.

TBH Kelly's situation is an exceptional one (as in, it is extremely unique). His reasons for leaving are probably more genuine than most, so holding him to contract had far greater ramifications for him than other players. We have no clue what is was actually like for him - the comments and "good will" publicity don't necessarily reflect the last 18 months. He's still done the exact same thing 12 months later, and he won't be coming back to the state of Victoria for any reason.

What Geelong did last year wasn't the right thing to do, IMO. A player needed to come home for genuine reasons, and you rebuffed him - Geelong acted selfishely (which wasn't helped by the fact we wouldn't cave in at the last minute, tbf). Him playing for you was, by far, more attractive then letting him leave, and according to your players and staff, you didn't want to make a top 4 competitor stronger. Based on these things, it is a fair conclusion that Geelong acted selfishly and in bad taste for a player with dire circumstances.

From our PoV, that's how it appeared. I think GC were significantly in the wrong when they wouldn't let Ablett come home, although they had, by far, a lot more to lose then your club did.
 
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The Stid said:
Both Tim & Caitlin follow Harley on IG, so safe to say neither have a problem with him as has been talked about over the past few days.
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Too be honest Harley is one of the most gifted footballers I have ever seen, I think it would be well worth our club to check those calves out, that's what rookie spots are there for.
 
CM9000 said:
I think it is perfectly fair to claim Geelong acted poorly in 2018. You can't say we exploited anything when, ultimately, it was on your club whether he came home or not. We might not have offered enough substantial overs, but we weren't the ones with the power to release him.

TBH Kelly's situation is an exceptional one (as in, it is extremely unique). His reasons for leaving are probably more genuine than most, so holding him to contract had far greater ramifications for him than other players. We have no clue what is was actually like for him - the comments and "good will" publicity don't necessarily reflect the last 18 months. He's still done the exact same thing 12 months later, and he won't be coming back to the state of Victoria for any reason.

What Geelong did last year wasn't the right thing to do, IMO. A player needed to come home for genuine reasons, and you rebuffed him - Geelong acted selfishely (which wasn't helped by the fact we wouldn't cave in at the last minute, tbf). Him playing for you was, by far, more attractive then letting him leave, and according to your players and staff, you didn't want to make a top 4 competitor stronger. Based on these things, it is a fair conclusion that Geelong acted selfishly and in bad taste for a player with dire circumstances.

From our PoV, that's how it appeared. I think GC were significantly in the wrong when they wouldn't let Ablett come home, although they had, by far, a lot more to lose then your club did.
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To be fair, I don't think we would have been anywhere near as inclined to make sure he sees out his contract, if his manager hadn't adamantly ruled out Fremantle as an option early on in the piece. Most within the footy world agreed, that you can't get drafted, say you're happy to go interstate, ask to break your contract under compassionate grounds, but still only leave 1 option available (no player since Nathan Buckley has done this, and that's why they changed draft contracts). It seemed disingenuous at best. Completely different story this year, as he'd honoured his contract and had every right to nominate you guys (just like any other player).

I've seen you be pretty strong on this in the past, but we didn't act selfishly. We drafted a player, who turned out to be good, and then wanted to leave 1 year into his contract but only go to a fellow contender. We couldn't meet on a trade price (whether you believe we acted in good faith or not), and so he was retained.

The comments and good will might not accurately reflect the entire duration, but the knowledge that I have regarding his and Caitlyn's social network, alongside visits from Matthew Stokes and club support staff regularly, that were employed to make his life as comfortable as possible, suggested that this year was 10x better than last year. He was genuinely tossing up between staying at stages. He also had a regular column with the Geelong Advertiser and regularly hung out with guys outside of 'work.' A player who's disgruntled, doesn't behave like that. Nor does he have the exemplary season that he had this year.

I also respectfully disagree with your comments re: coming back to Victoria. Caitlyn, Grian, Gemma and TK have all become good friends and hang out often. I could definitely see the Kelly's coming down (while one of the family babysits) and staying with them, Narkle, Cockatoo, Ratugolea, Parfitt etc. If you see her instagram, she regularly had photos with those guys and 'stories' and what not.

I say all of this with the caveat that Scott's comment in the media both times, were not helpful. If you think he pisses you off, you have no idea how much he pisses me and other fans off.

I know I won't change your mind, as you've held this view for a while, but TK isn't writing articles like he did after the prelim where he poured his heart out about how much it hurt and how hard his decision was to make because he loves the club and the boys, if he's as upset with us as you purport. I definitely think him and Caitlyn were a bit pissed off at our senior management and some rogue disgusting fans last year, but I don't think we're the monsters that you've made us out to be. The fact that we negotiated in good faith so early on in the piece without making you do the legwork for trades (something a lot of clubs won't do, lol), means that we obviously care about what's best for TK.

I'm sure we're at an impasse, and I'm definitely not here to argue lol, as it's done now. You have your position, but we move on and you get to enjoy watching an exemplary person and player that you'll have for the next 7 years or so. We get to have an exciting trade period where we see what picks we can get/without having to listen to all the mind-numbing minutia that comes with trade radio speculation on TK. I genuinely am happy for him, and honestly I think both our clubs this year (despite however you may feel about last year), have acted wonderfully and ensured trade relations and public perception of being 'good clubs to trade with', stay in place. Discounting last year, we've always been labelled as one of the best clubs to trade with, as its usually done with minimal fuss. I believe your club is usually the same.

Anyway, I digress. I hope our clubs and supporters can move past last year and focus on this year, as I've never really had a problem with West Coast as a club.

About time I got out of bed. Have a good one :)
 
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Shadow89 said:
To be fair, I don't think we would have been anywhere near as inclined to make sure he sees out his contract, if his manager hadn't adamantly ruled out Fremantle as an option early on in the piece. Most within the footy world agreed, that you can't get drafted, say you're happy to go interstate, ask to break your contract under compassionate grounds, but still only leave 1 option available (no player since Nathan Buckley has done this, and that's why they changed draft contracts). It seemed disingenuous at best. Completely different story this year, as he'd honoured his contract and had every right to nominate you guys (just like any other player).

I've seen you be pretty strong on this in the past, but we didn't act selfishly. We drafted a player, who turned out to be good, and then wanted to leave 1 year into his contract but only go to a fellow contender. We couldn't meet on a trade price (whether you believe we acted in good faith or not), and so he was retained.

The comments and good will might not accurately reflect the entire duration, but the knowledge that I have regarding his and Caitlyn's social network, alongside visits from Matthew Stokes and club support staff regularly, that were employed to make his life as comfortable as possible, suggested that this year was 10x better than last year. He was genuinely tossing up between staying at stages. He also had a regular column with the Geelong Advertiser and regularly hung out with guys outside of 'work.' A player who's disgruntled, doesn't behave like that. Nor does he have the exemplary season that he had this year.

I also respectfully disagree with your comments re: coming back to Victoria. Caitlyn, Grian, Gemma and TK have all become good friends and hang out often. I could definitely see the Kelly's coming down (while one of the family babysits) and staying with them, Narkle, Cockatoo, Ratugolea, Parfitt etc. If you see her instagram, she regularly had photos with those guys and 'stories' and what not.

I say all of this with the caveat that Scott's comment in the media both times, were not helpful. If you think he pisses you off, you have no idea how much he pisses me and other fans off.

I know I won't change your mind, as you've held this view for a while, but TK isn't writing articles like he did after the prelim where he poured his heart out about how much it hurt and how hard his decision was to make because he loves the club and the boys, if he's as upset with us as you purport. I definitely think him and Caitlyn were a bit pi**ed off at our senior management and some rogue disgusting fans last year, but I don't think we're the monsters that you've made us out to be. The fact that we negotiated in good faith so early on in the piece without making you do the legwork for trades (something a lot of clubs won't do, lol), means that we obviously care about what's best for TK.

I'm sure we're at an impasse, and I'm definitely not here to argue lol, as it's done now. You have your position, but we move on and you get to enjoy watching an exemplary person and player that you'll have for the next 7 years or so. We get to have an exciting trade period where we see what picks we can get/without having to listen to all the mind-numbing minutia that comes with trade radio speculation on TK. I genuinely am happy for him, and honestly I think both our clubs this year (despite however you may feel about last year), have acted wonderfully and ensured trade relations and public perception of being 'good clubs to trade with', stay in place. Discounting last year, we've always been labelled as one of the best clubs to trade with, as its usually done with minimal fuss. I believe your club is usually the same.

Anyway, I digress. I hope our clubs and supporters can move past last year and focus on this year, as I've never really had a problem with West Coast as a club.

About time I got out of bed. Have a good one :)
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So he had a job for a Geelong newspaper and he wrote nice things about GFC .
He and his wife was in a few photo's with some team mates . Well they must have been happy .
Ok . Thankyou for letting us know . Ta Ta for now .
 
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