Biology Ancient Australia (Extinct Megafauna, Dinosaurs etc)

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CD Xbow

CD Xbow

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Oct 1, 2014
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We have the most unique fauna in Oz, but we also have had some of the most interesting extinct animals ranging from the ancient Ediacara fauna, 'polar' dinosaurs, through to the recently extinct megafauna. I couldn't find a thread that covered "Ancient Australia", or perhaps better Australian Palaeontology, so I thought I might start one where people can post news, links, and have discussions. Some of you may have had a dig at some of the sites or live near them and may have something to share. I've put a few starters links in the next para.

The Gov has a page that gives a quick overview to the various geological periods and sites in Oz, and the Australian Museum has a description of non Victorian sites. For the megafauna Wikipedia has a good starting off page, with definitions and a linked list to most of the critters, ABC do an educational site, this site has Lancefield megafauna and the Naracoorte caves. For Dinosaurs, the Museum of Victoria has an introductory site & the wiki has a useful list with a timeline, and this list of the 11 most interesting gives an introduction to some of the beasties. UQ 'Dinosaur Lab' keeps up with most local finds. Many of the large dinosaur finds of recent times have come from Euromango while some of the first came from Dinosaur Cove.

I do drawing with Peter Trusler, a well known paleo artist, people know his works mainly from a few series of postage stamps. Peter did his PhD reconstructing the extraordinary diprotodont Paleochestes. We talk a lot, drink a bit and sometimes even get a little drawing done of old bones. I often get to hear stories of new finds that haven't been published or sometimes it's Peter's current work doing visual reconstructions of dinosaurs & extinct mammals, if there is anything of interest I will post.

Added - this is perhaps Peter's best known work and it also covers the major megafauna:
peters_stamp_mega.jpg
 
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CD Xbow said:
View attachment 373735
We have the most unique fauna in Oz, but we also have had some of the most interesting extinct animals ranging from the ancient Ediacara fauna, 'polar' dinosaurs, through to the recently extinct megafauna. I couldn't find a thread that covered "Ancient Australia", or perhaps better Australian Palaeontology, so I thought I might start one where people can post news, links, and have discussions. Some of you may have had a dig at some of the sites or live near them and may have something to share. I've put a few starters links in the next para.

The Gov has a page that gives a quick overview to the various geological periods and sites in Oz, and the Australian Museum has a description of non Victorian sites. For the megafauna Wikipedia has a good starting off page, with definitions and a linked list to most of the critters, ABC do an educational site, this site has Lancefield megafauna and the Naracoorte caves. For Dinosaurs, the Museum of Victoria has an introductory site & the wiki has a useful list with a timeline, and this list of the 11 most interesting gives an introduction to some of the beasties. UQ 'Dinosaur Lab' keeps up with most local finds. Many of the large dinosaur finds of recent times have come from Euromango while some of the first came from Dinosaur Cove.

I do drawing with Peter Trusler, a well known paleo artist, people know his works mainly from a few series of postage stamps. Peter did his PhD reconstructing the extraordinary diprotodont Paleochestes. We talk a lot, drink a bit and sometimes even get a little drawing done of old bones. I often get to hear stories of new finds that haven't been published or sometimes it's Peter's current work doing visual reconstructions of dinosaurs & extinct mammals, if there is anything of interest I will post.

Added - this is perhaps Peter's best known work and it also covers the major megafauna:
View attachment 373742
Click to expand...

Fascinating stuff. We don't know what's right under our feet a lot of the time, there are remarkable opportunities to reveal more of the history of our lands, just waiting for us.


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Cool. I have a new house with bare walls and I'm looking for some interesting conversation-starter pictures to hand on the walls, Any links for potential sales? (you can PM me if necessary).

For anyone else interested - I recommend the TV series "A Time Travellers Guide to Australia" which was on ABC a couple years ago.
 

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Admiral Byng said:
Cool. I have a new house with bare walls and I'm looking for some interesting conversation-starter pictures to hand on the walls, Any links for potential sales? (you can PM me if necessary).

For anyone else interested - I recommend the TV series "A Time Travellers Guide to Australia" which was on ABC a couple years ago.
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I'm seeing Peter tonight and discuss. Original works are expensive.
 
Werewolf said:
The Kimberley is home to the best dinosaur footprints, but why are there no body fossils?
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Different sequences of geological events occur to form them and eventually reveal them, and you must remember tracks represent living animals and fossils dead ones. Can't form a fossil without a body.

Formation of a fossil is a 1 in a million sort of event, tracks are a 1 in a billion sort of event. We have a lot less tracks than we do fossils, even though each individual made hundreds of thousands of tracks in their lives. The region was a vast river plain of muddy swamps and sandbars 130 million years ago which are the sort of conditions that can form both tracks and fossils. Perhaps there were only a small number of deaths, so no fossil bones have been formed, perhaps they are there under the surface somewhere. This link talks about formation of footprints in a USA example - https://www.nps.gov/dena/learn/nature/making-dino-prints.htm
 
Good to see I'm not the only Dino-nerd on these forums. Peter Trusler must be one of the best paleoartists going around but he seems to go under the radar a bit, internationally.
 
I have picked up a rock that had broken open and revealed some shells. Having a closer look I noticed something else. Using a phone magnifier I came across this

Skin?
IMG_20180504_082724.jpg

Part of shell alongside

IMG_20180504_082735.jpg
 
GreyCrow said:
I have picked up a rock that had broken open and revealed some shells. Having a closer look I noticed something else. Using a phone magnifier I came across this
Skin?
Part of shell alongside
Click to expand...
Both likely corals. Second can also be some sort of mound coral, but without scale or seeing more it could be anything from a bivalve mollusc to a segment of ammonoid.
Very common and typical of limestone showing its depositional environment. Better more diverse samples and you might be able to date it visually, but if you check any geological map of the area you can get the likely formation it came from, its name, then take it from there on the web for anything more.

Even good quality limestone paving can be a lot of fun for kids. Give them a magnifying glass and tell them to look for "creatures".
 
Werewolf said:
New turkey-sized plant-eating dinosaur identified after fossils found at Cape Otway
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The illustration in the linked article is done by my drawing partner, Peter. I feel a bit silly because I probably should have posted about it, not just because Peter did the visual reconstruction, but because I have been building a life size model of Diluvicursor. It's not finished, you can see it in bits on my dining table in the picture below. The envelope is for size reference not to prove I use gas.

1528199943304413525941.jpg

The dino model in front is a life size Leaellynasaura amicagraphica, the first of the Victorian polar dinosaurs discovered. This one is nearly ready for painting. I've got a few more in the pipeline. You can see Diluvicursor is a much larger beasty.

At this time Victoria was within the Antarctic Circle, but it almost certainly wasn't polar weather as it was much warmer during the mid-Cretaceous, somewhere between the climate of southern Tasmania or southern NZ. Pretty cold but probably not ice bound. The few cranial finds of Leaellynasaura are shattered and have lead to some problems with reconstruction. If you saw Leaellynasaura in Walking with Dinosaurs you will see they have reconstructed the head too large. The first individual found is now thought to be a juvenile and combined with the problems piecing together small pieces of shattered skull lead to an error in the reconstruction.

These guys are really important because they are almost conclusive proof that small ornithopod dinosaurs where endothermic (warm blooded) and therefore almost certainly would have some skin covering of protofeathers or fur. Alas, there are no skin specimens recovered. We know that small therapods had feathers, which is not surprising given birds evolved from them, and were almost certainly endothermic as well. There is some evidence in that other ornithopods had hair or protofeathers but it's no where near as strong as for the therapods.

Bone histology provides more evidence of endothermy as there is no evidence of growth slow down over winter, suggesting they were active in winter.
 

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Pafloyul said:
Good to see I'm not the only Dino-nerd on these forums. Peter Trusler must be one of the best paleoartists going around but he seems to go under the radar a bit, internationally.
Click to expand...
Best there is. I think within the international paleo community he is well known. He does have a few collectors and he has sold works to famous folks like Barry Humphries and David Attenborough. I'm very lucky to have him as friend. He does a lot of nature work, but his private works are mostly portraits and nudes. Silly bugger has never had an exhibition of his own, though he is involved in a very interesting project that I hope will get him more prominence.
 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-...romornis-stirtoni-once-roamed-outback/9870192

Fossils from Alcoota site shed more light on origins of gigantic, goose-like bird

The central Australian outback was once home to a large flightless bird thought to be the largest bird ever to walk the planet.

The goose-like Dromornis stirtoni is thought to have stood about three metres tall and weighed up to 650 kilograms, making it heavier than the Giant Moa of New Zealand and taller than the Elephant Bird of Madagascar.

More is being discovered about this giant, flightless creature from extensive digs at a the fossil-rich Alcoota site, 200 kilometres north-east of Alice Springs.

Dr Adam Yates, the senior curator of Earth Sciences at the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory in Alice Springs, said the site was about 8 million years old.

But Dr Yates said, relatively speaking, that was not considered that old.

He said it was often difficult for people to conceptualise how long ago creatures like Dromornis stirtoni walked the earth.

"One of the tricks we can use is to talk about analogies," Dr Yates said.

"One analogy I like to use is talk about a piece of paper representing a single year.

"So if you just lay down one piece of typing paper that's one year and then you build up a stack of 300 pieces of paper, which is less than an inch thick. Then you've covered all of European history in Australia.

Previous work undertaken by Americans
"You'd need a stack that was close to head height to cover all of Aboriginal history in Australia but to get the mere eight million years ago you'd need a stack of paper that was at ground level in Alice Springs and stacked up above Mount Gillen [914 metres].

"To get back to the dinosaurs you'd have to be up where the commercial aeroplanes are flying."

The history of the Alcoota fossil site as scientific research area started back in the early 1960s.

Dr Yates said back then that most of Australia's palaeontology work in the field was undertaken by Americans.

He said as a result, much of what was discovered there at that time went back to the US where it still is, at the Museum of Palaeontology in Berkeley in California.

Fast forward 20 years to the 1980s the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory had developed its own program.

According to Dr Yates, today's museum holds the largest collection of Dromornis stirtoni fossils in Australia.

It is also in the process of making the collection more accessible to tourists and residents at a central location in Alice Springs.

Uniquely flightless family
He said the story of Dromornis stirtoni was interesting in that for decades scientists mistakenly believed it was distant relative of the emu because the leg bones were similar to those of emus.
But Dr Yates said thanks to the later discovery of Dromornis skulls at the site, it was revealed that they were actually a flightless family of dromornithids unique to Australia but completely unrelated to emus.

"That discovery is largely down to my predecessor here at the Museum and Art Gallery of Northern Territory, Peter Murray, who started the Northern Territory excavations at Alcoota," Dr Yates said.

Dr Yates said the research took a while, but through a combination of the fossil skulls found at Alcoota and at Bullock Creek — another fossil site 700 kilometres south of Darwin — it was found that Dromornis stirtoni was related to ducks and geese.

He said scientists now believed Dromornis stirtoni was the largest bird that ever lived on the planet.
 
Wizard17 said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-...romornis-stirtoni-once-roamed-outback/9870192

Fossils from Alcoota site shed more light on origins of gigantic, goose-like bird

The central Australian outback was once home to a large flightless bird thought to be the largest bird ever to walk the planet.

The goose-like Dromornis stirtoni is thought to have stood about three metres tall and weighed up to 650 kilograms, making it heavier than the Giant Moa of New Zealand and taller than the Elephant Bird of Madagascar.

More is being discovered about this giant, flightless creature from extensive digs at a the fossil-rich Alcoota site, 200 kilometres north-east of Alice Springs.

Dr Adam Yates, the senior curator of Earth Sciences at the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory in Alice Springs, said the site was about 8 million years old.

But Dr Yates said, relatively speaking, that was not considered that old.

He said it was often difficult for people to conceptualise how long ago creatures like Dromornis stirtoni walked the earth.

"One of the tricks we can use is to talk about analogies," Dr Yates said.

"One analogy I like to use is talk about a piece of paper representing a single year.

"So if you just lay down one piece of typing paper that's one year and then you build up a stack of 300 pieces of paper, which is less than an inch thick. Then you've covered all of European history in Australia.

Previous work undertaken by Americans
"You'd need a stack that was close to head height to cover all of Aboriginal history in Australia but to get the mere eight million years ago you'd need a stack of paper that was at ground level in Alice Springs and stacked up above Mount Gillen [914 metres].

"To get back to the dinosaurs you'd have to be up where the commercial aeroplanes are flying."

The history of the Alcoota fossil site as scientific research area started back in the early 1960s.

Dr Yates said back then that most of Australia's palaeontology work in the field was undertaken by Americans.

He said as a result, much of what was discovered there at that time went back to the US where it still is, at the Museum of Palaeontology in Berkeley in California.

Fast forward 20 years to the 1980s the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory had developed its own program.

According to Dr Yates, today's museum holds the largest collection of Dromornis stirtoni fossils in Australia.

It is also in the process of making the collection more accessible to tourists and residents at a central location in Alice Springs.

Uniquely flightless family
He said the story of Dromornis stirtoni was interesting in that for decades scientists mistakenly believed it was distant relative of the emu because the leg bones were similar to those of emus.
But Dr Yates said thanks to the later discovery of Dromornis skulls at the site, it was revealed that they were actually a flightless family of dromornithids unique to Australia but completely unrelated to emus.

"That discovery is largely down to my predecessor here at the Museum and Art Gallery of Northern Territory, Peter Murray, who started the Northern Territory excavations at Alcoota," Dr Yates said.

Dr Yates said the research took a while, but through a combination of the fossil skulls found at Alcoota and at Bullock Creek — another fossil site 700 kilometres south of Darwin — it was found that Dromornis stirtoni was related to ducks and geese.

He said scientists now believed Dromornis stirtoni was the largest bird that ever lived on the planet.
Click to expand...

I'm confused about the relationship between Dromornis stirtoni & Bullockornis planei. Both seem to get called 'The Demon Duck of Doom'. Peter did a 2D reconstruction of Dromornis which you can see here - https://phys.org/news/2016-01-case-mistaken-identity-australia-extinct.html
 
CD Xbow said:
I'm confused about the relationship between Dromornis stirtoni & Bullockornis planei. Both seem to get called 'The Demon Duck of Doom'. Peter did a 2D reconstruction of Dromornis which you can see here - https://phys.org/news/2016-01-case-mistaken-identity-australia-extinct.html
Click to expand...

Both are in the same Family Dromornithidae which is where the Demon Duck nickname comes from. From what I can find Bullockornis is slightly smaller (2.5m tall and 250kg) and earlier (Middle Miocene) than Dromornis (3m tall, 650kg and living in the late Miocene to early Pliocene).

They might be reclassified into the same genus once we find a few more fossils though. A lot of what we have is partial being with them being birds which don't fossilise as easily as similarly sized mammals and reptiles due to their bone structure.
 
Wizard17 said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-...romornis-stirtoni-once-roamed-outback/9870192

Fossils from Alcoota site shed more light on origins of gigantic, goose-like bird

The central Australian outback was once home to a large flightless bird thought to be the largest bird ever to walk the planet.

The goose-like Dromornis stirtoni is thought to have stood about three metres tall and weighed up to 650 kilograms, making it heavier than the Giant Moa of New Zealand and taller than the Elephant Bird of Madagascar.

More is being discovered about this giant, flightless creature from extensive digs at a the fossil-rich Alcoota site, 200 kilometres north-east of Alice Springs.

Dr Adam Yates, the senior curator of Earth Sciences at the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory in Alice Springs, said the site was about 8 million years old.

But Dr Yates said, relatively speaking, that was not considered that old.

He said it was often difficult for people to conceptualise how long ago creatures like Dromornis stirtoni walked the earth.

"One of the tricks we can use is to talk about analogies," Dr Yates said.

"One analogy I like to use is talk about a piece of paper representing a single year.

"So if you just lay down one piece of typing paper that's one year and then you build up a stack of 300 pieces of paper, which is less than an inch thick. Then you've covered all of European history in Australia.

Previous work undertaken by Americans
"You'd need a stack that was close to head height to cover all of Aboriginal history in Australia but to get the mere eight million years ago you'd need a stack of paper that was at ground level in Alice Springs and stacked up above Mount Gillen [914 metres].

"To get back to the dinosaurs you'd have to be up where the commercial aeroplanes are flying."

The history of the Alcoota fossil site as scientific research area started back in the early 1960s.

Dr Yates said back then that most of Australia's palaeontology work in the field was undertaken by Americans.

He said as a result, much of what was discovered there at that time went back to the US where it still is, at the Museum of Palaeontology in Berkeley in California.

Fast forward 20 years to the 1980s the Museum and Art Gallery of the Northern Territory had developed its own program.

According to Dr Yates, today's museum holds the largest collection of Dromornis stirtoni fossils in Australia.

It is also in the process of making the collection more accessible to tourists and residents at a central location in Alice Springs.

Uniquely flightless family
He said the story of Dromornis stirtoni was interesting in that for decades scientists mistakenly believed it was distant relative of the emu because the leg bones were similar to those of emus.
But Dr Yates said thanks to the later discovery of Dromornis skulls at the site, it was revealed that they were actually a flightless family of dromornithids unique to Australia but completely unrelated to emus.

"That discovery is largely down to my predecessor here at the Museum and Art Gallery of Northern Territory, Peter Murray, who started the Northern Territory excavations at Alcoota," Dr Yates said.

Dr Yates said the research took a while, but through a combination of the fossil skulls found at Alcoota and at Bullock Creek — another fossil site 700 kilometres south of Darwin — it was found that Dromornis stirtoni was related to ducks and geese.

He said scientists now believed Dromornis stirtoni was the largest bird that ever lived on the planet.
Click to expand...
Dragons!!
 
Wizard17 said:
Both are in the same Family Dromornithidae which is where the Demon Duck nickname comes from. From what I can find Bullockornis is slightly smaller (2.5m tall and 250kg) and earlier (Middle Miocene) than Dromornis (3m tall, 650kg and living in the late Miocene to early Pliocene).

They might be reclassified into the same genus once we find a few more fossils though. A lot of what we have is partial being with them being birds which don't fossilise as easily as similarly sized mammals and reptiles due to their bone structure.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Bullockornis is such a good name, I think I remember a Nic Bullockornis used to play in the back pocket for Carlton in their hey day (a very long time ago now)
 
shark-low-res19.jpg ​
My friend Peter has done this visual reconstruction of the 'Jan Juc shark' see https://www.bay939.com.au/news/local-news/96420-mega-shark-jaws-found-at-jan-juc

About 30% smaller than Megalodon, it was still a very large beasty. Museums Victoria has a movie about Megalodon starting next week, and in October there is going to be an exhibit about the extinct local sharks, which you will be able to see the work life size. If you do go, check out all the little parasites Peter has drawn on it, in the teeth, nostril etc. He's a bit like Slattibardfast, he likes the fiddly bits.
 
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This is Peters reconstruction of the Jan-Juc shark, ending up at the wrong end of the food chain. The reconstruction with the six gilled sharks ( Hexanchus,) feeding on the carcass is because the jaw was found to have teeth from the six gilled shark impeded in it. One explanation was that they were feeding on it as illustrated. Hexanchus has serrated teeth, and they feed by twisting their whole bodies to tear hunks of flesh off. You can find videos of modern Hexanchus species feeding.
jan-juc-carcass.jpg ​
The six gilled sharks are a primitive group, best known extant members are the Cow Sharks. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_shark There is an article from the Museum https://museumsvictoria.com.au/medi...rehistoric-leftovers-of-colossal-shark-feast/
 
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Damn it would be cool to resurrect those giant wombats and kangaroos! They would be far more manageable than dinosaurs ;)
 
Eight fossilised feathers were found last year in creatceous strata from Koonwarra, one of which looks 'non avian', unfortunately not found with any bones associated. See http://thestar.com.au/blog/world-first/ The only picture I could find is this one, which looks pretty avian, but I'm no expert.

00014242_lg.jpg ​

The Koonwarra bed has had some spectacular insect & fish finds - see https://stephenporopat.weebly.com/u..._and_fish...and_feathers_for_good_measure.pdf He also recently published a review of all the early cretaceous biotas in southern australia - see https://www.researchgate.net/public...ern_Australia-an_overview_of_research_to_date Covers plants, vetebrates and invetebrates. Proper paper, not for the feint hearted.
 
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