Ashes Squad Discussion (CLOSED)

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big_sav

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Apr 4, 2004
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All right guys. the india tour is almost over and now our focus will switch to the Ashes(if it didnt before this series anyway). I havent found a thread on this ashes so ill kick it off with my starting 11 and then the rest. i have a feeling that they may go with a large squad over there so i will go with 17. the same as the india tour

1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. Hughes
4. Watson(must bowl!!)
5. Clarke (c)
6. Khawaja
7. Wade (wk)
8. Starc
9. Pattinson
10. Siddle
11. Lyon

i think thats our best side but watson must bowl and i think khawaja has the technique over there to succeed. top 3 is a must and i dont think there are any other options. if watson dosent bowl in not sure cause the balance of the side gets destroyed as we have seen vs india. i even wouldnt be against seeing watson batting at 6 and khawaja at 4. if this happens then the middle order will be completely different and itll be anyones guess wat the selectors pick. the bowlers pick themselves and i know when u pick a bowler that can bat a bit (starc) you can lose focus on taking 20 wickets but i believe if we are going to win the ashes our tail will have to help us out in a game or 2 hence starc gets a game over bird. not sure on lyon but there is no one else around. i have agar in my squad for a learning curve but i dont think he will play much.


12. Doolan
13. Haddin
14. Agar
15. Hilfenhaus
16. Bird
17. Cummins

First off i think we need the bowling options over there. hilf gets a spot as he was our best bowler there last time and still can offer alot. bird obviously cause if theres a bit of grass in the pitch must play as he can hold up an end and get wickets too. cummins for that raw pace and maybe only to play a test or 2. pending fitness and form obviously. haddin to back up wade to cover for injury and form but wade gets first shot. doolan is the next best performed batsman that is not 35+ or 100kg+. i havent seen much of him but seems to have a good technique and we need that over there.

would love some constructive criticism
 
All right guys. the india tour is almost over and now our focus will switch to the Ashes(if it didnt before this series anyway). I havent found a thread on this ashes so ill kick it off with my starting 11 and then the rest. i have a feeling that they may go with a large squad over there so i will go with 17. the same as the india tour

1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. Hughes
4. Watson(must bowl!!)
5. Clarke (c)
6. Khawaja
7. Wade (wk)
8. Starc
9. Pattinson
10. Siddle
11. Lyon

i think thats our best side but watson must bowl and i think khawaja has the technique over there to succeed. top 3 is a must and i dont think there are any other options. if watson dosent bowl in not sure cause the balance of the side gets destroyed as we have seen vs india. i even wouldnt be against seeing watson batting at 6 and khawaja at 4. if this happens then the middle order will be completely different and itll be anyones guess wat the selectors pick. the bowlers pick themselves and i know when u pick a bowler that can bat a bit (starc) you can lose focus on taking 20 wickets but i believe if we are going to win the ashes our tail will have to help us out in a game or 2 hence starc gets a game over bird. not sure on lyon but there is no one else around. i have agar in my squad for a learning curve but i dont think he will play much.


12. Doolan
13. Haddin
14. Agar
15. Hilfenhaus
16. Bird
17. Cummins

First off i think we need the bowling options over there. hilf gets a spot as he was our best bowler there last time and still can offer alot. bird obviously cause if theres a bit of grass in the pitch must play as he can hold up an end and get wickets too. cummins for that raw pace and maybe only to play a test or 2. pending fitness and form obviously. haddin to back up wade to cover for injury and form but wade gets first shot. doolan is the next best performed batsman that is not 35+ or 100kg+. i havent seen much of him but seems to have a good technique and we need that over there.

would love some constructive criticism
cummins won't be picked in the ashes squad
 

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cummins won't be picked in the ashes squad

if he's "fit" i reckon they'll pick him. he's on outrageous talent that could be driven into the ground by stupid selections.

we'll see what happens in this test but not holding my breath.

said it a few times, and i normally wouldn't advocate this, but i reckon a clear out with the batting is required. normally i'd go for gradual change but the direction were going isn't working and i can't see it working.

the more i think about it, the crazier it is that chris rogers hasn't added to his one test. rumours circulate that he's a bit of a bellend and all that but aside from one year (and unfortunately for him happened to be a year a spot came up for grabs) he's just plundered runs at shield level for ages. even if he came in now and provided a solid option for 2 years (note: solid option not averaging mid 30's, but getting into the 40's, and preferably mid 40's), and hope that someone like maddinson finds their feet at state level in the interim, enough to promote him anyway. plus rogers has a great record in england, although has faced some shit house attacks.

i'd still keep cowan for now but he's gotta start pushing his average up. if he forges out a long career with his current performances we'll be a joke, much like england of 20 years ago. mike atherton anyone? yeah fine cricketer, but 115 tests? yeah he's too old for 100+ tests, but he could get to ~60 at his current age.

cowan, hughes, watson, smith, khawaja, henriques... it's not the most inspiring bunch of guys. warner will have everyone on edge his entire career. jimmy anderson is his big danger man. and for a lot of guys. the concern is that clarke's biggest weakness is against quality swing bowling (as it is for a lot of guys)... is he gonna be able to rescue us consistently?

if our top four remains cowan-warner-hughes-watson/smith for the five tests in england i wouldn't be surprised if we are 3 for < 50 on 4 or 5 occasions.

rogers, bailey, burns, doolan must be getting close though i think rogers is about 0.5% chance of playing.

the quick bowling is sweet - pattinson and siddle are locks to go. pretty much pick four (maybe five?) of starc, bird, johnson, harris, faulkner, hilfenhus, hazlewood, coulter-nile, cummins, butterworth and cutting and you won't go too far wrong.

we know the selectors have hard ons for starc, johnson, hazlewood and cummins so they'll be at the forefront but for mine the three tassie boys - faulkner, butterworth, bird - are the best three outside of JP and PS. it'll be interesting to see who the selectors go with but they can't **** up to much there.

keepers are obviously wade and haddin. hartley has probably been unlucky but that's the way it goes. it'll best interesting to see how a fit paine changes the situation. we don't have a real world class option but peter nevill is probably the best fifth-best keeper in the world, though he had a real down season on his last few. shame good depth really amounts to nothing in the world of wicketkeeping.

spinners.... what's a spinner?
 
spinners.... what's a spinner?

ashton_agar_western_australia_langer610x400.jpg
 
peter nevill is probably the best fifth-best keeper in the world

For all we know he's not even in the top 100. The best pure keeper could be playing Grade Cricket somewhere but be hopeless with the bat.
 
I can't name 17. I would be putting a lor of fringe players in the Australia A tour, including some in the eleven.
Not a lot can come from beating up Ireland and Scotland, but comparisons can be made between those just in the team and those outside it.

Right now, the only ones I have for the Ashes are:
Warner
Cowan
#3? (tending to Hughes but unsure)
Clarke
#5? (Khawja?)
#6? (Burns? no a great season, but has scored runs toward the end, is that enough? definite for the Aus A tour, not so sure about ashes squad)
Would prefer Hartley, but know Wade will be chosen
Pattinson
Siddle
#3rd seamer? (possibly Harris????)
Lyon
for the first Test, and I'm in as much doubt about filling 17.

Hughes, Harris to tour but I'm not sure about play just yet. So many others I struggle to justify picking even for the squad at this point.
 
it's a huge responsibility for a guy with 6 (impressive) first class games to his name.

but as my post has alluded to, our chances of winning the away ashes are slim to none.

ashton agar is close to our best spinning option. possibly is. he'll definitely tour anyway.
 
If we go 17, I think it'll be...

(Assuming Watson is fit to bowl; if not, expect Henriques to tour. He may do anyway in case Watson breaks down.)

Agar, Ashton*
Bird, Jackson
Burns, Joe*
Clarke, Michael (c)
Cowan, Ed
Haddin, Brad (+)
Harris, Ryan
Hughes, Phil
Johnson, Mitchell
Khawaja, Usman
Lyon, Nathan
Pattinson, James
Siddle, Peter
Starc, Mitchell
Wade, Matthew (+)
Warner, David
Watson, Shane (vc)
 

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For all we know he's not even in the top 100. The best pure keeper could be playing Grade Cricket somewhere but be hopeless with the bat.

meant in terms of keeper-batsmen and ability to play at test level.

best pure keeper in the country at first class level is chris hartley. i couldn't say for sure but i reckon a bloke in sydney called james allsopp would be close to the best in the country purely for keeping. was a gun at underage level. now i admit i haven't seen him for about 6 years, but given he has survived about 10 years as a keeper batting mostly 8 or 9, and finds himself at 10 two or three times a season, has averaged just 19 since 05/06 and have seen him with the captains * next to his name from time to time for bankstown suggests he's still an absolute gun keeper.
 
Agar as a number 8 batsman + a genuine wicket taking spinner is a must i reckon, brings another dimension to the side, and with pietersen known for his troubles against sla, think he is a must. burns also has to be there, imo he's ahead of khawaja in terms of run making. doolan yes, hughes has to because there will be more seam bowling there.
so:
1. Cowan
2. Warner
3. Hughes
4. Clarke*
5. Burns/Khawja/Doolan
6. Watson (has to bowl though)
7. Wade+
8. Agar
9. Pattinson
10. Siddle
11. Starc/Bird

Reserves
12. Burns/Khawaja/Doolan
13. Burns Khawaja/Doolan
14. Bird/Starc
15. Johnson
16. Haddin
17. Henriques
 
if he's "fit" i reckon they'll pick him. he's on outrageous talent that could be driven into the ground by stupid selections.

we'll see what happens in this test but not holding my breath.

said it a few times, and i normally wouldn't advocate this, but i reckon a clear out with the batting is required. normally i'd go for gradual change but the direction were going isn't working and i can't see it working.

the more i think about it, the crazier it is that chris rogers hasn't added to his one test. rumours circulate that he's a bit of a bellend and all that but aside from one year (and unfortunately for him happened to be a year a spot came up for grabs) he's just plundered runs at shield level for ages. even if he came in now and provided a solid option for 2 years (note: solid option not averaging mid 30's, but getting into the 40's, and preferably mid 40's), and hope that someone like maddinson finds their feet at state level in the interim, enough to promote him anyway. plus rogers has a great record in england, although has faced some shit house attacks.

i'd still keep cowan for now but he's gotta start pushing his average up. if he forges out a long career with his current performances we'll be a joke, much like england of 20 years ago. mike atherton anyone? yeah fine cricketer, but 115 tests? yeah he's too old for 100+ tests, but he could get to ~60 at his current age.

cowan, hughes, watson, smith, khawaja, henriques... it's not the most inspiring bunch of guys. warner will have everyone on edge his entire career. jimmy anderson is his big danger man. and for a lot of guys. the concern is that clarke's biggest weakness is against quality swing bowling (as it is for a lot of guys)... is he gonna be able to rescue us consistently?

if our top four remains cowan-warner-hughes-watson/smith for the five tests in england i wouldn't be surprised if we are 3 for < 50 on 4 or 5 occasions.

rogers, bailey, burns, doolan must be getting close though i think rogers is about 0.5% chance of playing.

the quick bowling is sweet - pattinson and siddle are locks to go. pretty much pick four (maybe five?) of starc, bird, johnson, harris, faulkner, hilfenhus, hazlewood, coulter-nile, cummins, butterworth and cutting and you won't go too far wrong.

we know the selectors have hard ons for starc, johnson, hazlewood and cummins so they'll be at the forefront but for mine the three tassie boys - faulkner, butterworth, bird - are the best three outside of JP and PS. it'll be interesting to see who the selectors go with but they can't **** up to much there.

keepers are obviously wade and haddin. hartley has probably been unlucky but that's the way it goes. it'll best interesting to see how a fit paine changes the situation. we don't have a real world class option but peter nevill is probably the best fifth-best keeper in the world, though he had a real down season on his last few. shame good depth really amounts to nothing in the world of wicketkeeping.

spinners.... what's a spinner?
it's about time we gave up this notion talent should be the reason we pick a player. pick them on what they have done. can we just wait a year or 2 on cummins please. this kid will be run into the ground before he's even close to being ready
 
meant in terms of keeper-batsmen and ability to play at test level.

You think Nevill is the 5th best keeper-batsman in the world? Reckon that's a stretch. Depends how much weight you're giving to keeping I suppose but even then.
 
No love for Chadd Sayers? Bloke took a lot of wickets (48) bowling on fairly flat tracks every second game.
 
it's about time we gave up this notion talent should be the reason we pick a player. pick them on what they have done.

there's just gotta be a bit of balance but yes performance should take precedence. there are definitely some blokes you can see could take their game to the next level, but not many scream out with that at the moment to be honest.

right now f we were picking a team on what they have done (even including first class cricket) we couldn't field a top six.
 
You think Nevill is the 5th best keeper-batsman in the world? Reckon that's a stretch. Depends how much weight you're giving to keeping I suppose but even then.

no, i meant nevill is the 5th best in australia. if we were to stack up the 5th best keeper-batsmen from each country he'd surely be the best.

was just highlighting our depth of keepers, but also how pointless it is given you can only play one and tour with two.
 
no, i meant nevill is the 5th best in australia. if we were to stack up the 5th best keeper-batsmen from each country he'd surely be the best.

was just highlighting our depth of keepers, but also how pointless it is given you can only play one and tour with two.

Oh sorry mate, misread your original post. :thumbsu:
 
there's just gotta be a bit of balance but yes performance should take precedence. there are definitely some blokes you can see could take their game to the next level, but not many scream out with that at the moment to be honest.

right now f we were picking a team on what they have done (even including first class cricket) we couldn't field a top six.

cummins hasn't played a first class game for nearly 2 years. really that should rule him out straight away
 
As alluded to - the chances of us winning the Ashes are next to bloody nil.

Outside of Clarke, Pattison, Siddle, Starc, Warner and Watson take the bunch of guys who you think will have the best chance of winning it the next time they play out here.

I'd rather them lose and gain an experience out of it than to lose and gain nothing.
 
I rate Cowan ahead of Warner, technically at least, and think he's do better than Warner in England with swingning ball. I'd take rogers ahead of Warner but know it won't happen.

1. Cowan
2. Warner
3. Marsh
4. Clarke
5. Khawaja
6. Doolan
7. Watson (all rounder only)
8. Wade
9. Agar
10. Pattinson
11. Siddle
12. Starc
13. Bird
14. Bailey (we need leaders)
15. Haddin
16. Lyons
17. Harris
 
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