Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Boston tiger]

So Jesus died some 2000 years ago, to appease God because humans are filthy sinners.

Sounds a lot like human sacrifice to me.

Only one.
How many Australians have sacrificed their lives in wars ?
Come on get with it.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Only one.
How many Australians have sacrificed their lives in wars ?
Come on get with it.

How many died when he flooded the planet?

 

[carltonchelsea]

Yes,


the point being He resurrected and is alive

So what’s the sacrifice?
If he is essentially the creator of the universe and everything in it, but is also immaterial, immortal, timeless and can simply evade death or finality like the outlander, a vampire or the T-2000, where is the sacrifice?
But for argument sake, let’s run some numbers, Jesus lived for 33 years, he was crucified and rose 3 days later.
Correct?
(On a side note, why the obsession with the number 3?
Is it like De La Soul, “3, it’s the magic number, oh yes it is, it’s the magic number…..scratch….no more no less, it’s the magic number….”)
Let’s get back to the math, the known universe is 13.7 billion years old, Jesus/Yeshua was 33 years old, he was crucified and died for 3 days.
Let’s work out his sacrifice in daily terms on an earthy scale within the universal age scale, ignoring he is timeless, like Christians claim.
365 days a year x 13.7 billion years=5.0005e+12 days.
He went somewhere for 3 of those, we don’t know where he went, but considering the eye watering numbers, he’s barely sacrificed a long weekend.
Anyone want to calculate the % on the 3 days, to work out the sacrifice Yeshua made to save us from our universal sins?

 

[Total Power]

Psalm 119. It is the longest chapter in the Bible and an extended acrostic poem (in Hebrew) about the beauty, majesty and perfection of God’s law and word.

Old Testament laws are still relevant for Christians. But ‘relevant’ is not the same as ‘applicable.’ Some apply, some don’t. But they’re all relevant.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).

---

Ah yeah, only when it suits you...when i quote the OT you go like 'but but but Jesus.......'. Moral laws are still applicable to Christians, which means homosexuality being a sin, women being inferior, slavery being ok, atheism being evil etc etc. Moral laws can NEVER be abolished. Civil and ceremonial laws do not apply.

So my question is why on earth would i need to follow such disgusting stone age laws? You wouldn't either, but somehow you call yourself a Christian.

In principle i agree, but the whole cherry picking you guys do to match your belief is amazing but understandable.

 

[Total Power]

Only one.
How many Australians have sacrificed their lives in wars ?
Come on get with it.

Sacrifice LOL..an omnipotent being can't sacrifice anything cause he KNOWS what would happen. Or wouldn't he? he cannot make mistakes as he is all knowing, he can't have regrets as he is all knowing. Yet he had to sacrifice himself....was that his plan all along? or are you telling me he didn't know any of it will happen?

If you read Genesis is pretty clear he didn't know most of it will happen...that's why global flood and he regretted creating us.

You are taking mythology way too seriously. None of it adds up.

 

[Total Power]

Yes,


the point being He resurrected and is alive

His birthplace is in flames and the first Christians being burnt alive...he is nowhere in sight. He must exist first to appear right? i mean outside of your head and those who 'feel' him. As i said, the second coming of Christ prophecies have been a spectacular failure for the past 1,600 years. You and I will be dead in the next 50 years so don't worry about it..both of us will be gone

 

[carltonchelsea]

Why do Jews and Christians worship Adonai/Yahweh/Yhwh when the true god of the Hebrews/Jews is El?
Yahweh is the storm deity, the son of Adonai/Yahweh, that brother and husband of Asherah.
Why don’t folks like bostontiger and vdubs know their own historical religious practices?

 

[Total Power]

Why do Jews and Christians worship Adonai/Yahweh/Yhwh when the true god of the Hebrews/Jews is El?
Yahweh is the storm deity, the son of Adonai/Yahweh, that brother and husband of Asherah.
Why don’t folks like bostontiger and vdubs know their own historical religious practices?

You think they actually care about any of that? no one cares about history, science, geology etc..as long as they get what they are looking for in 'selective' texts. Simple stuff being Original Sin is not a Jewish concept, Jews believe sin can't be passed from man to man....Christians disagree, but apparently it's the same God..there's nothing in the OT which suggests Jews are wrong actually. Original Sin is a made doctrine many years after the death of this preacher called Jesus.

 

[Roylion]

Psalm 119. It is the longest chapter in the Bible and an extended acrostic poem (in Hebrew) about the beauty, majesty and perfection of God’s law and word.

That in itself is not proof that it is God's law and word.

Old Testament laws are still relevant for Christians. But ‘relevant’ is not the same as ‘applicable.’ Some apply, some don’t. But they’re all relevant.

Relevant to what?

 

[Roylion]

the point being He resurrected and is alive

No he did not. There is absolutely NO supporting evidence that this actually occurred.

 

[Roylion]

Why do Jews and Christians worship Adonai/Yahweh/Yhwh when the true god of the Hebrews/Jews is El?

The ancient Canaanites from whom the Hebrews derived worshipped El or Eli (or Anu to the Sumerians) was the creator, the supreme god - one of many, the father of mankind and all creatures. Originally El/Eli was the father of many other gods including Baal-Hadad, Mot, Yam and Yahweh. El appears as one of many gods in the ruins of the royal archive of the Ebla civilization, in the archaeological site of Tell Mardikh in Syria dated to 2300 BC, long before the advent of the Kingdom of Israel (c. 1000 BC at the earliest) or even the supposed period where the mythical Abraham (c. 1900-1600 BC) was said to have lived.

It is widely accepted there are at least two accepted sources for the Pentateuch including the Yahwist (or J) source (dating to from either just before or during the Babylonian capitivity in the 6th century BC), and the Priestly source (P) a product of the middle of the 5th century BC with its final edition as late as the third century BC. P is responsible for the first of the two creation stories (Genesis 1), for Adam's genealogy, part of the Flood story and the genealogy of Abraham back to Shem as well as a couple of other areas. The Priestly source uses El-ohim as the word for 'God"

The Yahwist section begins with the creation story at Genesis 2:4 (the creation story at Genesis 1 is from the Priestly source); this is followed by the Garden of Eden story, Cain and Abel, Cain's descendants (but Adam's descendants are from the Priestly source), a Flood story (the Priestly source has his own flood story and the two are tightly intertwined), Noah's descendants and the Tower of Babel. The Yahwist source uses Yahweh, as the word for God.

It clear that 'Moses' did not write Genesis or any of the other four books of the Pentateuch.

 

[Vdubs]

No he did not. There is absolutely NO supporting evidence that this actually occurred.

Similarly, you can not categorically state that he did not have a resurrection either.

 

[Roylion]

Similarly, you can not categorically state that he did not have a resurrection either.

There is absolutely NO supporting evidence for the resurrection of the dead

I reject totally the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. No-one, including the human called Jesus, has ever risen from being truly dead, despite what some have claimed. All humans - every single last one of them throughout all of human history - has ended up dying. None have ever been resurrected from the dead.

As Carl Sagan once said..."extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Extraordinary claims are those that are:

1) not entirely reasonable to believe
2) not consistent with our everyday experience
3) not supported by a large body of evidence confirming such things are possible

So the evidence presented needs to be commensurate to the claim being made.

People coming back from being dead for three days is not a reasonable thing to just accept. It goes against our everyday experience of people staying dead once they die, and it is not supported by any confirming evidence, other than an author's say so. Using as evidence that "goddidit" or that it was a "miracle" isn't enough. Hence the only way is can be believed / accepted as having actually happened is by faith.

'Truly dead' being the state of the body after the heart has stopped beating for a period of time and the brain starves from lack of oxygen. From the moment of death, gut bacteria, present when living begin to digest the intestine. They eventually break out of the intestine and start digesting the surrounding internal organs, often within 24 hours. Flies begin to lay eggs around wounds and natural body openings, then they hatch and move into the body, most often within 24 hours. Rigor mortis appears approximately 2 hours after death in the muscles of the face, progresses to the limbs over the next few hours, completing between 6 to 8 hours after death.

The whole network of neurons then disintegrates, dissolved from massive cell death and the pooling of blood acids. Gases and fluids pool in the extremities and body cavities ands the body starts to decompose.

 

[Total Power]

Similarly, you can not categorically state that he did not have a resurrection either.

You absolutely can. If it wasn't then the story wouldn't have evolved from spiritual resurrection to physical resurrection going to town etc. Paul hinted in spiritual resurrection, it wasn't until much later that story came to be. I made a long post in regards to this.

 

[Vdubs]

There is absolutely NO supporting evidence for the resurrection of the dead

I reject totally the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. No-one, including the human called Jesus, has ever risen from being truly dead, despite what some have claimed. All humans - every single last one of them throughout all of human history - has ended up dying. None have ever been resurrected from the dead.

As Carl Sagan once said..."extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Extraordinary claims are those that are:

1) not entirely reasonable to believe
2) not consistent with our everyday experience
3) not supported by a large body of evidence confirming such things are possible

So the evidence presented needs to be commensurate to the claim being made.

People coming back from being dead for three days is not a reasonable thing to just accept. It goes against our everyday experience of people staying dead once they die, and it is not supported by any confirming evidence, other than an author's say so. Using as evidence that "goddidit" or that it was a "miracle" isn't enough. Hence the only way is can be believed / accepted as having actually happened is by faith.

'Truly dead' being the state of the body after the heart has stopped beating for a period of time and the brain starves from lack of oxygen. From the moment of death, gut bacteria, present when living begin to digest the intestine. They eventually break out of the intestine and start digesting the surrounding internal organs, often within 24 hours. Flies begin to lay eggs around wounds and natural body openings, then they hatch and move into the body, most often within 24 hours. Rigor mortis appears approximately 2 hours after death in the muscles of the face, progresses to the limbs over the next few hours, completing between 6 to 8 hours after death.

The whole network of neurons then disintegrates, dissolved from massive cell death and the pooling of blood acids. Gases and fluids pool in the extremities and body cavities ands the body starts to decompose.

That's why we are Christians- Jesus is the only leader who has called Himself God and has risen from the dead.

 

[Roylion]

That's why we are Christians- Jesus is the only leader who has called Himself God and has risen from the dead.

There is NO supporting evidence that this actually occurred.

 

[Chief]

How many died when he flooded the planet?

What about all those kids killed by bears?

 

[Total Power]

That's why we are Christians- Jesus is the only leader who has called Himself God and has risen from the dead.

Why do you repeat the same lies? Krisha wasn't a Hindu leader who called himself God???? Krishna didn't rise from the dead? many egyptian gods did that before , parroting the same lies doesn't make it really . The story of Jesus rising from the dead came from Paul, Mithraism was Paul's hometown religion. Mithra rose from the dead. Surpringly the story of Jesus was similar...yeah coincidence.

 

[Vdubs]

Why do you repeat the same lies? Krisha wasn't a Hindu leader who called himself God???? Krishna didn't rise from the dead? many egyptian gods did that before , parroting the same lies doesn't make it really . The story of Jesus rising from the dead came from Paul, Mithraism was Paul's hometown religion. Mithra rose from the dead. Surpringly the story of Jesus was similar...yeah coincidence.

Interesting.
Not.
We follow Jesus who is God.
None of your examples do that, do they!

 

[Total Power]

Interesting.
Not.
We follow Jesus who is God.
None of your examples do that, do they!

Krishna is not a Hindu god??? I know you're blind but this is just silly. 1.2 billion Krishna followers alive today..my mum is one.

Mithra was a God too. This is incredibly stupid of you to deny this.

LOL

 

[Roylion]

We follow Jesus who is God.

"God", if it exists at all, is unknowable. Jesus is not "god".

 

[Total Power]

Interesting.
Not.
We follow Jesus who is God.
None of your examples do that, do they!

Google Iskon...many many Christians have converted into 'Krishna' followers too. Jesus mate, being ignorant TO obvious facts is why you are here in the first place.

 

[Total Power]

"God", if it exists at all, is unknowable. Jesus is not "god".

The Bible never states that Jesus is God (Except for 2 occasions in John). It always states that Jesus is the Son of God who is inferior to God (hence trinity later on to get the story right), and that is what we should believe..(meant he is divine but not God). Some Vdubs thinks Jesus said he is god.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

No he did not. There is absolutely NO supporting evidence that this actually occurred.

Plus it’s impossible. If someone “rises from the dead” they weren’t dead.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Come on folks, the thread is called Ask an Atheist.

Let’s stop making it all about Christianity yet a bloody gain.

Ask us atheists some questions about atheism.

Or does being a religious believer mean saying sayonara to intellectual curiosity?