Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Roylion]

As I have said ad nauseum, practicing Christians do not need your sort of robust evidence,

They believe it by faith. Yes..yes we know all that. However that sti'l doesn't mean what you claim should be accepted as fact / truth. I see absolutely no reason to believe that the resurrection of Jesus actually occurred, as you claim it did. Same with Adam and Eve, the Global Flood, the Exodus or any other biblical event you have claimed as factual.

None at all.

do not seek it,

Of course they don't. I've known that for a long time.

and have enough evidence for the reality of Jesus in their lives to continue to live as they do.

They can live as they like, by whatever faith that they like. However if you claim something as truth on a public discussion forum, expect it to be challenged by those who don't accept extraordinary claims as truth without robust supporting evidence.

 

[Total Power]

Very privileged to be a Christian- not all are people are so fortunate- and very proud of what Christianity stands for, despite your doom and gloom prophesies about its future.

Mine? it's data mate...it has fallen off the cliff already. You do not even have to look elsewhere, look at Australia..there's your answer.

COVID-19 led me here.
WW3 and Trump will keep me here a little longer, fwiw- that should be the real talking issue, not this theoretical garbage you keep dredging up.

Ah yeah Israel and Russia about to start ww3, both of them armed with the Bible, just like Trump. No need to look at the devil anywhere else. Just like colonialism, imperialism etc...Christianity is a gift that keeps on giving, as an indigenous, only about half a million killed by you lot.

Apparently all of this makes you proud.

LOL

 

[Vdubs]

They believe it by faith. Yes..yes we know all that. However that sti'l doesnt mean what you claim should be accepted as fact / truth. I see absolutely no reason to believe that the resurrection of Jesus actually occurred, as you claim it did. Same with Adam and Eve, the Global Flood, the Exodus or any other aboblical event you have claimed as factual.

None at all.


Of course they don't. I've known that for a long time.



They can live as they like, by whatever faith that they like. However if you claim something as truth on a public discussion forum, expect it to be challenged by those who don't accept extraordinary claims as truth without robust supporting evidence.

No. It's not really like that, and you know it.
You know we accept the truth of Jesus by faith and by personal experience.
It does not need to be questioned, just accepted. Accepted that Christians , despite many having tertiary education, and in fields of science, biology, genetics etc. can still humble themselves to be God-fearing Christians, by faith.
If you guys don't like it, fine, but don't ask for other proof or evidence, or clarification of difficult Biblical verses.
We did not write it, but we receive weekly and more info on its interpretation by those who have studied Greek etc and in context.

 

[Total Power]

No. It's not really like that, and you know it.
You know we accept the truth of Jesus by faith and by personal experience.
It does not need to be questioned, just accepted. Accepted that Christians , despite many having tertiary education, and in fields of science, biology, genetics etc. can still humble themselves to be God-fearing Christians, by faith.
If you guys don't like it, fine, but don't ask for other proof or evidence, or clarification of difficult Biblical verses.
We did not write it, but we receive weekly and more info on its interpretation by those who have studied Greek etc and in context.

So the stories in the Bible are false..like Genesis and exodus (which is portrayed as a historical event) but you are right? Jesus mentioned Exodus and Adam and Eve. Did he not know they were 'stories' or the authors of NT had no idea?

For an omnipotent god, he is quite disappointing TBH

 

[Roylion]

No. IOt's not really lioke that, and you know it.

You accept what is said in the Bible by faith.

'You know we accept the truth og Jesus by faith and by personal experience.

Whether its 'truth' is very debatable. I don't accept your claims as truth because there is little to no evidence to support it as truth. No resurrection, no Adam and Eve, no global flood, no Exodus, amongst other events described in the Bible. There is no evidence for any of these things being actual truth.

It does not need to be questioned, just accepted.

Any claims made do need to be questioned and examined closely. Without robust supporting evidence for those claims, I wont be accepting these events as actual truth.

If you guys don't like it, fine, but don't ask for other proof or evidence,

That's exactly what I'll be asking for if you claim something to be truth.

We did not write it, but we receive weekly and more info on its interpretation by those who have studied Greek etc and in context.

Quoting Scripture is not evidence that something claimed to be truth is truth. The Bible is not true because it says it is true. Quoting Scripture in support of your claims to truth does absolutely nothing to convince me that you are correct when you claim something as a truth.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The leopard is the fastest land mammal on earth .
Water freezes at 0 Celsius degrees.
The Catholic priest that came up with the Big Bang Theory says high .

(Sigh) you’re just repeating a point I already acknowledged.

What you don’t seem to want to address is the fact that the church, in conceding the superiority of the scientific explanation of the world, is therefore logically admitting their explanations are quite simply wrong.

But still they’re out there talking about the “truth” of “god’s word” like they’re not making an absolute joke of themselves, no acknowledgment whatsoever they are hopelessly contradicting themselves.

That’s not to say that religion can’t still be an enormous source of comfort, communion, and succour for people that choose to participate in its now-completely hollowed out rituals.

 

[Vdubs]

So the stories in the Bible are false..like Genesis and exodus (which is portrayed as a historical event) but you are right? Jesus mentioned Exodus and Adam and Eve. Did he not know they were 'stories' or the authors of NT had no idea?

For an omnipotent god, he is quite disappointing TBH

Question for you. Do you believe the stories in the OT? If not, why argue against God that you don't even believe in? You have a problem with atrocities that you don't even believe happened, and present some pseudo anger at God, and His believers.
To build one’s case against God from imaginary suffering is certainly creative, but hardly a problem for Theists.

 

[carltonchelsea]

I didn't say you couldn't live in more than one identity, but as a side note I'd argue no identity is really usefull if you take them seriously. It was useful for Arnold Schwarzenegger to "play" the Terminator, but if he thought he was the Terminator that would be a different and very painful story.

Back on the whole multiple identity thing though, if you say "I'm a midfielder" and they throw you forward, how will the identity "midfielder" psychologically limit you?

Of course identities are limiting - that's what they're designed to do. As soon as you define and catergorise it goes in "that box" which is inherantly limiting.

I’ve worked in quite a mixed array of industries my dude, having no identity in those industries meant not working in them, no identity, no job.
Your point is mute on this one.

A case in point is atheists keep bringing theists into the conversation and trashing them, even if it’s irrelevant like the above, because the identity "athiest" is defined by theism.

Atheism wouldn’t exist without theism, again a mute point.

It's amazing to us, but in reality it's meaningless. Not to be confused with unhelpful to passing on our genes such as mediciine and everything else, but ultimately meaningless.

Jibberish….

We understand some of the mechanics of "this", but don't really know what "this" is or where "this" is or where "we" are in "this". You can't say we're over here, orbiting around one of 300 sextillion stars (at the very least) in a universe we don't know where it is or ends, as an organism that evolved to experience that speck only to the extent favourable to reproductive success (we experience less than 1% of what is really there) and then say we "know" what reality is. We simply don't. We experience a very, very, very limited mirage of reality.

Argumentum ad Absurdem.

Some humans have worked out in small part how the universe "works" through classical physics, and I admire your enthusiasm, but they're not even close to understanding quantum physics.

Even if they did, that doesn't mean they know what reality is. Understand how something works and what it is are two different things. If you lived your whole life through a VR headset and worked out how the programming worked, the ones and zeros, you'd still have no idea what reality was.

We don't know sh* about where we are, we only know a small bit about how it works.

Argument from personal incredulity.

Not at all. I think being realistic about ourseleves is the best way forward as a species. We're not special or intelligent or meaningful outside of our own delusion about ourselves. We evolved to think all that to pass on genes.

An example is Elon Musk wanting to go to mars because it's so important that we "save" consciousness. Why? the universe is meaningless. Consiousness has no meaning or importance because "meaning" and "importance" are human generated. So it all ends up circular.

All of this self-importance has been nothing but destructive, but even then, that's my own deluded human meaning. There is nothing outside of our mind judging what "destructuve" is or is not. Everything just "is".

Defeatism, I wouldn’t employ you, I need problem solvers and doers, you’re clearly not, stay out of my workshop and site.

I'm totally relaxed over here with no identities and knowing nothing means anything and isn't important. Couldn't be more relaxed, which paradoxically is "happiness".

Whatever makes you sleep at night mate, don’t call me for a reference!

 

[ManInTheArena]

I’ve worked in quite a mixed array of industries my dude, having no identity in those industries meant not working in them, no identity, no job.
Your point is mute on this one.

Atheism wouldn’t exist without theism, again a mute point.

Jibberish….

Argumentum ad Absurdem.

Argument from personal incredulity.

Defeatism, I wouldn’t employ you, I need problem solvers and doers, you’re clearly not, stay out of my workshop and site.

Whatever makes you sleep at night mate, don’t call me for a reference!

This is probably the most ignorant and presumptuous response I've ever had.

I'm literally sitting here in my 10 bedroom homestead estate with exotic cars in my garage. I took over an insolvent company and grew it by 1000+ percent, currently at $300m with 3,800 employees and still growing rapidly. I've got ASX listed companies trying to get me to run them, I don't need is your little "workshop" or reference!

Perhaps next time enquire a bit before you go off half cocked.

 

[Total Power]

Question for you. Do you believe the stories in the OT? If not, why argue against God that you don't even believe in?

Cause it's not written by God. Several points here, i will only mention a couple of those

1. Stories like Genesis and global flood were copied from older myths. I have presented proof here.
2. Stories like exodus historically never happened.
3. Stories about Moses was written 700 years after his death. You try writing about your greatx7 grandfather and see what you can come up with in a society where only 10% of the population was educated.

I am arguing against the stupidity of the belief system. And then you guys threaten people with hell and call others sinners. This is abuse...No one deserves to be called a sinner particularly the followers of such an entity.

You have a problem with atrocities that you don't even believe happened, and present some pseudo anger at God, and His believers.

To call those atrocities 'divine' is the thing i have a problem with. God is perfect, nek minit, god sanctions rape.

Do you believe a divine being would order rape of underaged women as a bounty for war???

Yes or no??? these stone age beliefs belong to the stone age not in 2024.

Then you guys start virtue signalling, as if the deity is better than any of us? he got all the box ticked as well, but killing almost everyone to rape to infanticide, everything!!

To build one’s case against God from imaginary suffering is certainly creative, but hardly a problem for Theists.

I have no issues with what you believe in, but to call such beliefs as divine is a thing i have a problem with. In what word is sexism, racism, misogyny, punishment for divorce, masturbation, atheism divine???? To say we are ALL governed by such an entity is an insult to intellect. No one deserves this. Not even you, as a so called 'believer'

 

[carltonchelsea]

This is probably the most ignorant and presumptuous response I've ever had.

I'm literally sitting here in my 10 bedroom homestead estate with exotic cars in my garage. I took over an insolvent company and grew it by 1000+ percent, currently at $300m with 3,800 employees and still growing rapidly. I've got ASX listed companies trying to get me to run them, I don't need is your little "workshop" or reference!

Perhaps next time enquire a bit before you go off half cocked.

Pictures of this 10 bedroom estate or you can ead?!

 

[carltonchelsea]

This is probably the most ignorant and presumptuous response I've ever had.

I'm literally sitting here in my 10 bedroom homestead estate with exotic cars in my garage. I took over an insolvent company and grew it by 1000+ percent, currently at $300m with 3,800 employees and still growing rapidly. I've got ASX listed companies trying to get me to run them, I don't need is your little "workshop" or reference!

Perhaps next time enquire a bit before you go off half cocked.

Pictures of this 10 bedroom homestead or get ****ed mate, pretender?

 

[GrayRanga]

This is probably the most ignorant and presumptuous response I've ever had.

I'm literally sitting here in my 10 bedroom homestead estate with exotic cars in my garage. I took over an insolvent company and grew it by 1000+ percent, currently at $300m with 3,800 employees and still growing rapidly. I've got ASX listed companies trying to get me to run them, I don't need is your little "workshop" or reference!

Perhaps next time enquire a bit before you go off half cocked.

Exodus 20:16

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Do you believe the stories in the OT? If not, why argue against God that you don't even believe in?

Now you know that many people on here live by the not-unreasonable principle that things must be proven before committing to them.

Very little of what’s contained in the bible is proven, and much of it is conveniently unfalsifiable, so we argue against that.

“Vdubs believes the bible” is an argument of use to one person only - Vdubs.

That it works for you is simply no argument for whether it works for a single other person in the planet.

Round and round we go.

 

[carltonchelsea]

This is probably the most ignorant and presumptuous response I've ever had.

I'm literally sitting here in my 10 bedroom homestead estate with exotic cars in my garage. I took over an insolvent company and grew it by 1000+ percent, currently at $300m with 3,800 employees and still growing rapidly. I've got ASX listed companies trying to get me to run them, I don't need is your little "workshop" or reference!
Perhaps next time enquire a bit before you go off half cocked.

More jibberish

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

This is probably the most ignorant and presumptuous response I've ever had.

I'm literally sitting here in my 10 bedroom homestead estate with exotic cars in my garage. I took over an insolvent company and grew it by 1000+ percent, currently at $300m with 3,800 employees and still growing rapidly. I've got ASX listed companies trying to get me to run them, I don't need is your little "workshop" or reference!

Perhaps next time enquire a bit before you go off half cocked.

LOL someone desperately needs validation. What has any of that got to do with what the poster was saying?

 

[ManInTheArena]

LOL someone desperately needs validation. What has any of that got to do with what the poster was saying?

Everything. He implied that because of my ideologies I wasn't a "doer" and that he needed "solutions" and he wouldn't hire me or give me a reference, when in fact it couldn't be more the opposite. My ideologies created massive success in my life.

I actually couldn't give that much a sh* about that success in terms of my own self-worth but it was most ridiculous assertion when I'm sitting here surrounded by what I am.

I don't even believe in "success", it's just another identity.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Pictures of this 10 bedroom homestead or get ****ed mate, pretender?

I'm not posting pictures of my house, mate, and I made more claims than that which are all true.

I could verify who I am with someone trustworthy here but would it make any difference?

I was a meth addict as a teenager injecting every day, I came from the streets, worked my way to become a successful entrepreneur building a $300m company (revenue AND bootstrapped equity) from insolvent and got three business degrees and psychology degree along the way.

I'm 45. You can do the math and figure out I'm very much a "doer" and solution orientated which makes your post absolutely stupid.

What if I verify it, are you going to backflip? I doubt it.

 

[ManInTheArena]

More jibberish View attachment 2176963

Why post these? I'm not accusing you of not being a doer or solution orientated, and saying I wouldn't give you a job or a reference.

I couldn't care how successful you are, I wasn't having a peeing contest, I was debunking your silly presumptuous.

 

[ManInTheArena]

In response to what was not completely ridiculous, though:

I’ve worked in quite a mixed array of industries my dude, having no identity in those industries meant not working in them, no identity, no job.
Your point is mute on this one.

You don't need to identify with a role to do it or be successful at it. I used to identify as a "CEO" and was less successful at it because it causes a lot of stress and pressure which does not aide in producing results.

I don't go around saying "I'm not a CEO" and "Managing Director & CEO" is on my email signature, LinkedIn and everything else, but I know "I" am not that. I wasn't born with "CEO" stamped on my head and my kids, friends, and family couldn't give a sh* what my title is or "waht I've done" or "who I think I am". Who I think I am or who other people think I am is not really who I am. I just "am". Anything else is just my mind deluding itself or buying into the mass delusion where we all agree a concept is a real thing, when it is not. Concepts do not exist outside of our mind. A tiger exists, which is great, I'll glady suffer stress and pressure if I see one, but I won't for delusions created by evolution for a different purpose.

Everyday though I live by the principle of cause and effect, I just take actions which I think will produce results tomorrow but I don't get attached to the outcomes of those actions. You don't need to believe the delusion to take action and then those actions become effortless because you're not doing them to maintain a delusion.

The result is success happens and I don't get stressed or have any pressure whatsoever making me much more effective in my work as a leader and at home.

Obviously I don't talk about this sh* to my executive team or they'd think I was nuts like most people replying to me. All they see is a leader who performs highly, doesn't think he's better than anyone, and never gets stressed which creates a great environment.

Of course it sounds nuts but a bunch of people thinking you're nuts doesn't make you nuts and that's a logical fallacy on its own. Otherwise we'd say Galileo was actually "nuts" just because evryone thought it, when we know now he was not. People think I'm nuts because evolutionary we grew up in this delusion assuming that our concepts are real and that we must cling to them as if they are real. You know they are not though if you look at the science or even think through it.

You might not get your head around all that and call it whatever you like because you don't get it, but it's true. Concepts, thoughts, defintions, identities, meaning, and a lot of other things are delusions there to aid in our reproductive success on the Savannah. Now that we're living in a completely different environment, though, some of these concepts are harmful. If there was an apocolypse, I'd go straight back into them, but there's not. We're currenlt living in this foreign environment where of course our psychology from living in a tribe is not all useful.

Atheism wouldn’t exist without theism, again a mute point.

No it's not. My point is atheists need to keep dragging theism into their lives for that identity to remain relevant.

Jibberish….

Again, no it's not.

Just because you're not getting it, doesn't mean it's jibberish.

There is nothing "astounding" about the universe or what humans have done, and I know this will trigger people but that trigger is because we want to think we're special, when we're not.

Nothing outside of our human minds is astounding or meaningful. The universe itself is not astounding and there is meaning to it.

If all humans died there would be no meaning or anything astouning because meaning and "astounding" is not a pre-exisitng condition in the universe.

Argumentum ad Absurdem.

*absurdum

How is an argumentum ad absurdum?

You're as bad as the other bloke just posting without backing it up.

Argument from personal incredulity.

Are you saying we've got quantum physics worked out? that we know what reality is? or that knowing how something works means we know the entirety of what it is?

Again you're just positing without backing it up.

 

[Chief]

The Catholic priest that came up with the Big Bang Theory says high .

Wasn't that a derogatory name used to diminish the existing theory?

 

[faible]

I've asked these "atheists" many times, who should we Christians believe grafted the wild olive tree into the good olive tree if not the Christ?

lol this is the worst argument ever,

SO WHO DID THIS THING IN THE BIBLE IF NOT FOR CHRIST

* the Bible is a work of fiction *

BUT WHO

 

[Wallaby]

I've asked these "atheists" many times, who should we Christians believe grafted the wild olive tree into the good olive tree if not the Christ?

Any olive farm can graft various types of olives onto existing stock. It's just a metaphor for 'The Jews are welcome into Christianity, just as soon as they agree they were wrong'. Just not a very accurate botanical metaphor. Paul was just a Jew who joined Jesus's cult and decided to keep preaching it after Jesus died, so why should we listen to him anyway - he was just making shit up about whether you did or didn't need to be a Jew and follow Jewish customs if you wanted to be a Christian, and fighting about it with Peter.

If these "atheists" (if they even are atheists?) want to argue about the the flood, the Exodus, or other stories in the Tanakh, tell 'em to make a thread for the antichristian Jews also, a thread where these "atheist" antichrists can argue to their heart's content with their fellow antichrists, and amuse us in the process or are they scared of being accused of antisemitism?

Atheists are not limited to a particular religion - atheism is the rejection of any gods or Supreme Beings or however you wish to describe them. We disagree with ALL 'worldwide flood' myths. The only evidence(s) of such floods exist in tales told by religions, fairy tales, fables, and horror stories probably originally told around a campfire, and are all of about the same value - ie extremely little.

If they want to understand the prophecies...........................

We don't need to understand the prophecies in the Bible because they aren't prophecies. A prophecy says 'This will happen' - if it needs to be explained because it's very vague, lacking in detail, and uses metaphors and symbolism, it's useless. Also, if a prophecy is made in a book that may well be fictional, and then the prophecy is claimed as being fulfilled by the same book.........

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

We don't need to understand the prophecies in the Bible because they aren't prophecies. A prophecy says 'This will happen' - if it needs to be explained because it's very vague, lacking in detail, and uses metaphors and symbolism, it's useless. Also, if a prophecy is made in a book that may well be fictional, and then the prophecy is claimed as being fulfilled by the same book.........

I don’t get the obsession/reverence some religions have for prophesy on so many levels.

a) to continue your line here, if someone actually does show themselves to be good at predicting future events in a verifiable and quantifiable manner, they’re not worshipped and considered a messenger from god, they’re given a job picking stocks for a managed fund. And paid quite handsomely for it, because they’re good at it.

b) I don’t know about other religions, but Christianity has this really weird way of conflating “prophesy” with “law”. I do not for one minute understand this. I highly doubt any thesaurus entry for either of these words contains the other as a suggested option. But time and again you read in the old testament not just that so and so prophesied something and it came to pass, but that it became law.

c) even if we grant religions their reverence for prophecy, what, as a believer, is it then actually telling someone?

Basically it’s saying “the whole thing is scripted”.

How does that offer comfort and succour to we mere humans? I don’t remotely get how that’s supposed to be reassuring.

 

[Total Power]

I don’t get the obsession/reverence some religions have for prophesy on so many levels.

Because that's their golden ticket for getting others to believe like they do. It's fear mongering. For example, Rapture teaching is relatively new for Christianity. Not really embraced till around 1830. It's pure craziness, but it has worked so they keep using it.

But they funny thing is everyone in evangelical Seppo land knows how the Mormons and the JWs aren't "real" Christians, but not enough know how much of their rapture theology came from the leader of another questionable Second great awakening sect. How many of them are aware of this?