Christians are easily startled, but they'll soon be back. And in greater numbers 36:11

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[carltonchelsea]

I was there too 60's and 70's.

It’s clear you are complicit then yeah?

 

[Rusty Brookes]

absolutely! i was in the sixties. It was a religion of terror and hate. I cant be bothered looking at this thread though coz I know it will be full of god-bothering bullshit which has already pretty much rooted my life (metaphor intended). I cant listen to people crap on about jesus anymore.

My dad was telling me a story from his Catholic educated childhood when a nun gave a speech about a naughty Catholic boy who skipped church to go swimming with Protestant boys. He drowned and was subsequently sent to hell. My dad said he was petrified for months.

Another one he told me was the kids had been on an excursion and had played up on the bus - their shocking crime was poking their tongues out and giving the forks to drivers. Their punishment from the nun in charge was to stand out in the summer sun without water until one by one they collapsed.

This rosy, sunny, love aspect of Christianity is relatively new and I reckon can be traced back to Jesus Christ Superstar.

 

[Vdubs]

It’s clear you are complicit then yeah?

how so ? you know nothing of my school experiences.

 

[Vdubs]

My dad was telling me a story from his Catholic educated childhood when a nun gave a speech about a naughty Catholic boy who skipped church to go swimming with Protestant boys. He drowned and was subsequently sent to hell. My dad said he was petrified for months.

Another one he told me was the kids had been on an excursion and had played up on the bus - their shocking crime was poking their tongues out and giving the forks to drivers. Their punishment from the nun in charge was to stand out in the summer sun without water until one by one they collapsed.

This rosy, sunny, love aspect of Christianity is relatively new and I reckon can be traced back to Jesus Christ Superstar.

My brother, sister and myself all had nothing but Catholic school education and there is an element of familiarity with what you described. Certainly not enough to have made me walk away from God forever.
Catholic schooling, and even church back then, had very little if any, Bible based teaching. And requiring conduits to speak to God, like saints, or Mary, was unnecessary and bizarre given that Christ is the essence of CHRISTianity
Christianity is the ONLY "religion" that offers a personal relationship with God.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

My brother, sister and myself all had nothing but Catholic school education and there is an element of familiarity with what you described. Certainly not enough to have made me walk away from God forever.
Catholic schooling, and even church back then, had very little if any, Bible based teaching. And requiring conduits to speak to God, like saints, or Mary, was unnecessary and bizarre given that Christ is the essence of CHRISTianity
Christianity is the ONLY "religion" that offers a personal relationship with God.

If it's a personal relationship, why does it need mass gatherings and fancy buildings, tax free status etc?

 

[Vdubs]

Have any of you true ATHEISTS ever read the gem of a book by C.S. Lewis- Mere Christianity?

Have any of you true atheists considered you are also proclaiming your atheism by faith alone? You can never disprove God.

 

[Vdubs]

If it's a personal relationship, why does it need mass gatherings and fancy buildings, tax free status etc?

It doesn't need mass gatherings, but it certainly helps to meet fellow believers and see how they got to their faith. The overwhelming aspect to each testimony I've heard over the last 40 years is indeed LOVE. The love of God is absolutely real and healing. I get that MANY people leave the church, and sadly their faith, because of dealings with some dodgy Christians. People must realise that Christians are as fallible as everyone else. Just because they are forgiven does not render them perfect, and in my experience, they do not pretend to be.
The big picture should always be God. The irony is that those who leave their faith because of wrongdoings by God's people, blame God for this and become atheists. Yet if they are true atheists and therefore there is no God, explain the rationale for this anger at God, who does not exist.
And wrongdoings occur ubiquitously outside of churches and religious groups- where does that stem from?
Yes- this world is broken, and God, through Jesus, imho, offers us all THE BEST SOLUTION.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

It doesn't need mass gatherings, but it certainly helps to meet fellow believers and see how they got to their faith. The overwhelming aspect to each testimony I've heard over the last 40 years is indeed LOVE. The love of God is absolutely real and healing. I get that MANY people leave the church, and sadly their faith, because of dealings with some dodgy Christians. People must realise that Christians are as fallible as everyone else. Just because they are forgiven does not render them perfect, and in my experience, they do not pretend to be.
The big picture should always be God. The irony is that those who leave their faith because of wrongdoings by God's people, blame God for this and become atheists. Yet if they are true atheists and therefore there is no God, explain the rationale for this anger at God, who does not exist.
And wrongdoings occur ubiquitously outside of churches and religious groups- where does that stem from?
Yes- this world is broken, and God, through Jesus, imho, offers us all THE BEST SOLUTION.

If it's a personal relationship, then it's reasonable to expect God to contact us discretely.

 

[Roylion]

Have any of you true ATHEISTS ever read the gem of a book by C.S. Lewis- Mere Christianity?

Yes. What about it? Christian apologetic book. Many of his arguments are flawed for example his argument for the divinity of Jesus.

Have any of you true atheists considered you are also proclaiming your atheism by faith alone? You can never disprove God.

I have no way of disproving god. 'God', if it exists at all, is - as I have said many times - unknowable. Anything that is said about the phenomena of 'god' is the product of man's imagination. I see no reason to put any stock in invented beliefs that are arrived at by faith.

 

[Vdubs]

Yes. What about it? Christian apologetic book. Many of his arguments are flawed for example his argument for the divinity of Jesus.


I have no way of disproving god. 'God', if it exists at all, is - as I have said many times - unknowable. Anything that is said about the phenomena of 'god' is the product of man's imagination. I see no reason to put any stock in invented beliefs that are arrived at by faith.

He came to Christianity as an atheist and wanted there to be no God. Hardly an apologetic. An example of a very educated man coming to faith , amidst science, wars, injuries, loss, and personal hardship.
Your mechanistic and hard-nosed replies do not take away from the fact that you are indeed still searching, waiting for someone to prove God- which sadly will never happen in your terms.

 

[Vdubs]

If it's a personal relationship, then it's reasonable to expect God to contact us discretely.

God has invited ALL of humankind to come to Him- He is so discrete some of you turn down the offer with gusto. Some of you think He could not exist because of all the atrocities that have occurred in life. Yet I ask again, if no God, how then do you explain atrocities by mankind, and why the anger at God?

 

[Roylion]

He came to Christianity as an atheist and wanted there to be no God. Hardly an apologetic.

'Mere Christianity' is an apologetic work.

Your mechanistic and hard-nosed replies do not take away from the fact that you are indeed still searching,

No I'm not. That is just your wishful thinking.

waiting for someone to prove God-

You can't prove the existence of God. You never will, despite your unfounded claims to truth.

 

[Vdubs]

Yes. What about it? Christian apologetic book. Many of his arguments are flawed for example his argument for the divinity of Jesus.


I have no way of disproving god. 'God', if it exists at all, is - as I have said many times - unknowable. Anything that is said about the phenomena of 'god' is the product of man's imagination. I see no reason to put any stock in invented beliefs that are arrived at by faith.

Who invented science and geography and history?
Who invented speech, dialogue, arguments?
Who invented reading and writing?
Who invented mathematics, algebra?
What was there before humankind could do anything you are familiar with today?
All evolutionary?
It takes as much faith to believe God does not exist as it does to believe in Him.

 

[Vdubs]

'Mere Christianity' is an apologetic work.


No I'm not. That is just your wishful thinking.


You can't prove the existence of God. You never will, despite your unfounded claims to truth.

Mere Christianity is a brilliant piece of writing. CS Lewis helps many people make sense of the whole Christianity realm.

 

[Roylion]

Who invented science and geography and history?
Who invented speech, dialogue, arguments?
Who invented reading and writing?
Who invented mathematics, algebra?

Mankind. Without the assistance of 'god'. 'God' is not needed for any of those things.

What was there before humankind could do anything you are familiar with today?

What are you referring to when you say 'what was there before humankind'? Homo sapiens have been on the planet for 300,000 years.

All evolutionary?

Yep. Like morals and empathy.

As early humans faced new environmental challenges and evolved bigger bodies, they evolved larger and more complex brains. Over the course of human evolution, brain size tripled. The modern human brain is the largest and most complex of any living primate.

It takes as much faith to believe God does not exist as it does to believe in Him.

'God', if it exists at all, is unknowable. Anything that is said about the phenomena of 'god' is the product of man's imagination. I see no reason to put any stock in invented beliefs that are arrived at by faith.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

God has invited ALL of humankind to come to Him- He is so discrete some of you turn down the offer with gusto. Some of you think He could not exist because of all the atrocities that have occurred in life. Yet I ask again, if no God, how then do you explain atrocities by mankind, and why the anger at God?

Atrocities are not discrete.

 

[Roylion]

Mere Christianity is a brilliant piece of writing.

So is the Bible. That doesn't prove that 'god' exists. Much less the 'god' of Christianity. And many of his arguments have flaws.

CS Lewis helps many people make sense of the whole Christianity realm.

That's great. It's still an Christian apologetic work.

 

[Vdubs]

Atrocities are not discrete.

And how do you explain them as an atheist?

 

[Roylion]

God has invited ALL of humankind to come to Him-

That is yet another unsubstantiated claim to truth.

Yet I ask again, if no God, how then do you explain atrocities by mankind,

Why do you need 'God' to explain atrocities by mankind? I know there are plenty of atrocities in the Bible that 'god' supposedly ordered or condoned, but that is irrelevant.

and why the anger at God?

As there is no proof of 'god' why be angry at something that there is no evidence for?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

And how do you explain them as an atheist?

I'd probably just describe what happened in an age appropriate way.

 

[Vdubs]

That is yet another unsubstantiated claim to truth.


Why do you need 'God' to explain atrocities by mankind? I know there are plenty of atrocities in the Bible that 'god' supposedly ordered or condoned, but that is irrelevant.


As there is no proof of 'god' why be angry at something that there is no evidence for?

Yes, my points exactly.
You can not disprove God.
Many mortal men have a yearning for depth in their lives, deeper than the libraries or places you read in, and God fulfills that and is entirely possible.
Apart from my own experience, I can of course not prove God.
But by my reasoning, and life experience, Christianity offers me, and clearly billions others, THE BEST and MOST LIKELY explanation.
Given that there is a possibility of reality, it is on you to be ENTIRELY dismissive of God without proof, as you can not prove atheism either.

 

[Vdubs]

I'd probably just describe what happened in an age appropriate way.

So a nothing answer.
You guys have issues with experiential Christianity, but no qualms to extol atheism based purely on faith.
That is your call.
So no point asking an atheist a question it seems.
Thread dead?

 

[liz]

Given that there is a possibility of reality, it is on you to be ENTIRELY dismissive of God without proof, as you can not prove atheism either.

It’s just as possible that there’s a spaghetti monster travelling across the universe on a flying heffalump, who desires all living creatures to burn their first born on an altar as a sacrificial offering. The evidence for the existence and wonts of such a monster is the same as the evidence for the existence and wonts of the Christian god.

I choose to disregard the possibility of either existing, and live my life accordingly.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You can never disprove God.

Um, you've got that arse-around.

The obligation is not to disprove something yet to be proven.

 

[Total Power]

Yes, my points exactly.
You can not disprove God.

While this is right, you can (and we have here) disprove the Bible. That's all that is needed for this thread.

Many mortal men have a yearning for depth in their lives, deeper than the libraries or places you read in, and God fulfills that and is entirely possible.

Nothing outside of childish stories and narcissistic needs. God does not answer any of lifes big questions. If so, you would have had an answer, outside of 'lives been changed'. You are searching too, but you think found an answer in something when you actually haven't. 'God wants it this way' is not the answer to anything.

Apart from my own experience, I can of course not prove God.

Ever heard of 'God Helmet'? if not look it up. it has a powerful electromagnet in it that can stimulate a certain part of the brain and it induces what the participants have called "religious visions" I also seem to remember a few religious people in history being struck by lightning before having visions. Martin Luther may have been one of them iirc. Thousands of experiments showed, 'god part of the brain' being hyperactive gives such experiences.

In other words it's self deceiving. When i had ketamine i met Jesus right away. What part of the brain is activated when i have that?

Read here

Spiritual Experiences Activate Brain Reward Circuits​

SALT LAKE CITY - Religious and spiritual experiences activate the brain reward circuits in much the same way as love, sex, gambling, drugs and music, report researchers at the University of Utah School of Medicine. The findings will be published Nov. 29 in the journal Social Neuroscience.

"We're just beginning to understand how the brain participates in experiences that believers interpret as spiritual, divine or transcendent,"


It's in your head.

But by my reasoning, and life experience, Christianity offers me, and clearly billions others, THE BEST and MOST LIKELY explanation.

Rubbish. This thread proves you are confused yourself. From Genesis, to exodus to the morality in NT to revelation. I pretty much took all of it apart but apparently according to you it's the 'best' explanation. Explain why would God curse the entire mankind and then ask people to follow him for salvation? what's his purpose? to get a fanclub? attention???

And omniscient God would know every choice humans would make, which makes the whole sacrifice story completely bullshit. Or was this his plan all along?

On top of that, Trinity. The central tenet in Christianity is utterly rubbish.

Given that there is a possibility of reality, it is on you to be ENTIRELY dismissive of God without proof, as you can not prove atheism either.

I do not need to, Christianity can be proven to be false. From physics, chemistry, biology, geology , archeology, history and a whole host of other disciplines vs 'i have faith.

Secondly if your claims are unique i'd give you credits for it but since it's not, you get no brownie points. As i asked you and you didn't answer, why not give the credit to the original authors instead of Jesus when the quotes been clearly plagurised?