Australia, a growing geopolitical lap dog and not just in the Indo Pacific.

[Carringbush2010]

Bit of a stretch, 50k troops and no ability to project. That's two months of Russian volunteers

The F35's are a nice deterrent but a military power they do not make, I'm not counting the subs we'll never get.

A handy American vassal for whatever expedition they decide to go on next, I agree with your lapdog tag

The source for the ranking is in the op.

It has Aus ranked 16th in military power, after referencing it again just now, we're still 16th in the world.

AFAIK it doesn't take into account boots on the ground, probably because warfare is moving away from the boots on the ground method.

16th in the entire world in no way shape or form represents a nation that's a small backwater that no one takes notice of.

And this is the issue, bad bad people like vlad and xi are aware that we're a high end medium power, and they probably don't like that.

Not the sort of people that you want not liking you.

 

[Carringbush2010]

And those interests being the expansion of liberal democracies most of time. Unless you are trump or george bush (whose quest for venegence trumped all other ideals).

Trump kicked off a trade war cos he is an isolationist. Not because he isnt supportive of authoritarians.

He wants a world where china has its own area, russia has its own area and the usa has its own area and each bully and subjegate and conquer the smaller countries around them for their own gain. All ruled by kings.

A world of darkness as the benefits of trade are completely unwound. Rule of law that protects human rights and smaller nations from being conquered is ripped out? Democracies unravel at home as nationalist dictators take charge claiming they need ultimate power to protect you from foreign invaders as they rip away all your rights. And the fact some of you advocate for this world and for australia to also become isolationist and reject the rule of laws (rather than work to improve and strengthen them) shows negligent naivity at best and a want for cruelty and suffering at worst.

This, absolutely this!

I get a lot of you on the srp board are pissed at the 'west', and for good reason, yeah we get it.

But don't let that blind you all to what the alternative looks like, this is why I advocate hard for Harris to get in because if trump gets in, what seeds has described is what we here in oz don't want.

Yeah ok, the rest of the west will continue to strengthen relationships and you might be of the attitude 'we don't need the US, phuq em' - well you'd be wrong. As much as you all disdain the US (I do too) the wish to cut ties or even wish vengeance on the US coz of that axe you wanna grind is folly.

If we'd ever need military backing, we know the likes of Harris would come to our aid, we know that trump won't.

Yeah ok it sucks that we're puppets on a string for Chuck and Sam, if we weren't for them we'd be for another colonial power, how many of you would rather xi or vlad dictating to us?

Fact of life, we're a lap / attack dog, and we'll do what Chuck and Sam want us to. Accept coz it's much better than the alternative.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Yeah ok it sucks that we're puppets on a string for Chuck and Sam, if we weren't for them we'd be for another colonial power, how many of you would rather xi or vlad dictating to us?

Fact of life, we're a lap / attack dog, and we'll do what Chuck and Sam want us to. Accept coz it's much better than the alternative.

Yeah nah. This is NOT our lot in life, and we should be pursuing the means to divorce ourselves of it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah nah. This is NOT our lot in life, and we should be pursuing the means to divorce ourselves of it.

Of course we could do that if we had such power, we don't, accept that or don't.

I'll advise you again, do not wish for isolation. This is trumpism 101.

A/ It would leave us in much vulnerability, much more so than now.

B/ You're not getting it anyway.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Of course we could do that if we had such power, we don't, accept that or don't.

I'll advise you again, do not wish for isolation. This is trumpism 101.

A/ It would leave us in much vulnerability, much more so than now.

B/ You're not getting it anyway.

We can agree to disagree. Respect

 

[Carringbush2010]

We can agree to disagree. Respect

Fair enough.

From a utopian point of view, yes we could be truly independent of Sam and Chuck, yes we actually could. Isolated and truly independent.

The question from that is, does it leave us more vulnerable than what it does now?

Absolutely, without question, not up for debate.

The point of this thread is to point out, we are now vulnerable more than ever in history because we're now a high end medium military power, as pointed out by the link in the op, not to mention through out the last 100+ years we've been called upon in world conflicts from Chuck and Sam.

And because of that over the last 70+ years we've organically grown to be this power by necessity for deterrent means.

And I don't like it because we're now a concern for opposite powers like Xi and Vlad, who've already made their disdain clear directly at us. This is not good, and if we didn't have Chuck and Sam at our side, we'd probably already be obliterated and annexed.

You don't don't like us being that lap /attack dog for symbolic reasons, I get that, I don't like it because Xi and Vlad are concerned about us as a threat. That is the perspective I view it from, couldn't give a phuq about the symbolism bullshit.