Black Caviar overrated!

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Hypothetically if she met a horse like Schillaci race after race carrying 60kgs as often as he had to she'd not have anything like the record she has now imo.

Perhaps; it's the age-old conundrum of comparing horses from different eras. We can't know for sure how good Hay List is compared with e.g. Schillaci. But the premise of handicap racing being to give each horse an equal chance of winning means a good horse needs keep improving, or win with something in reserve, to stay on top. Handicappers generally resist assigning outrageous weights because the race clubs don't want to deter champions from running, so the weights of the opponents will be lowered instead. Bernborough is the textbook example of a horse continually beating the handicapper in top company, but even he met his Waterloo.

Following his defeat in the Stradbroke under 56.5kg, Schillaci was largely restricted to WFA events:
11th/20 Doncaster Hcp G1 56.5kg
9th/10 Hall Mark Stks LR 60kg
1st/15 Caulfield Spr G3 60.5kg
5th/17 Sandown Stks G3 60kg
5th/14 Qantas Cup G2 59kg
2nd/20 Stradbroke Hcp G1 58kg

His record in handicaps wasn't too flash after his 3yo season. And I rate Schillaci as the best in my time after BC.

And that was at a time when the depth in sprinting was arguably much stronger and much bigger fields.

Arguably. The placegetters in Schillaci's second Lightning win - his greatest IMO - were Clever Zoe and Oozook. Handy horses but not top class on any sort of regular basis.

First time I went to Moonee Valley in 1988, the feature (Manikato Stks) was a Group 2 containing Placid Ark, Vo Rogue, Special, Rancho Ruler, Campaign King, Our Westminster & Kaapstad (among others). Now that's depth!

Fields entered in BC's races are small because the opposition is running scared, but I grant you, depth isn't great.

This is more impressive.

A bona fide turf legend, but they can't really be compared. The top staying and middle distance events have always held more prestige than their sprint counterparts, which probably traces to the thoroughbred breeding ideal of producing horses with speed and stamina. Unless BC retires undefeated, I somehow doubt she'll become a household name in the same sense as Phar Lap or Tulloch, or even Makybe Diva, just as the uninitiated of today aren't familiar with the deeds of Todman and Vain.
 
Black Caviar is already a household name, its true our Spring stayers get more credit but a horse like Bernborough was a household name through the 40s and 50s and he was a sprinter like Black Caviar.
 
I guess it's up to the owners and trainers if they want Black Caviar to be tested or keep an unbeaten record against horses who aren't as good.

No doubt Black Caviar is a champion horse in her field, but the average punter would love to see her race against Frankel at a distance inbetween their favourite distance to see how they both would go.
 

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I guess it's up to the owners and trainers if they want Black Caviar to be tested or keep an unbeaten record against horses who aren't as good.

No doubt Black Caviar is a champion horse in her field, but the average punter would love to see her race against Frankel at a distance inbetween their favourite distance to see how they both would go.

There is no horse in the world as good, she isn't purposely trying to pick out easy races to win. She is going to the UK next year to take on there best but in all honesty its a step back in class!

Im sure the average punter would love to see a match race between the worlds 2 best horses but it just wont happen.
 
Black Caviar is already a household name, its true our Spring stayers get more credit but a horse like Bernborough was a household name through the 40s and 50s and he was a sprinter like Black Caviar.

True that he started as a sprinter but after winning the Newmarket, most of his runs were at a mile and beyond. Three days after breaking down, he was to have started a dominant favourite under 67.5kg in the Melbourne Cup.

Code:
1st 22-Dec-45 Randwick   Villiers Stakes      1600m 58  kg
1st 29-Dec-45 Randwick   Carrington Stakes    1200m 59.5kg
1st 28-Jan-46 Randwick   Australia Day Hcp    1400m 59  kg
1st 23-Feb-46 Caulfield  Futurity Stakes      1400m 64  kg
1st  2-Mar-46 Flemington Newmarket Hcp        1200m 63  kg
1st  6-Apr-46 Rosehill   Rawson Stakes        1800m 58  kg
1st 13-Apr-46 Randwick   Chipping Norton Stks 2000m 58  kg
1st 22-Apr-46 Randwick   All-Aged Stakes      1600m 57.5kg
1st  1-Jun-46 Doomben    Ahern Quality        1300m 65  kg
1st  8-Jun-46 Doomben    Doomben Cup          2200m 68.5kg
1st 31-Aug-46 Randwick   Warwick Stakes       1400m 58.5kg
1st 14-Sep-46 Randwick   Chelmsford Stakes    1800m 62  kg
1st 21-Sep-46 Rosehill   Hill Stakes          1700m 62  kg
1st  5-Oct-46 Flemington Melbourne Stakes     1600m 60.5kg
1st 12-Oct-46 Caulfield  Caulfield Stakes     1800m 59  kg
5th 19-Oct-46 Caulfield  Caulfield Cup        2400m 68  kg
PU   2-Nov-46 Flemington Mackinnon Stakes     2000m 58.5kg

All done in pretty much the one preparation!
 
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Usain Bolt wins the Gold Medal- the highest individual honor in the Olympic games.

Keiran Perkins wins a Gold Medal for swimming- again the highest individual honor at the Olympic Games.

Steffi Graf won numerous Grand Slam tennis titles- the highest honors in tennis.

The highest honor in horse racing is the Melbourne Cup. It is held by horse-racing as the pinnacle, like an AFL Grand Final, the Superbowl or the World Series. Black Caviar is not in it, and until she does, and wins, she is not a champion, for mine.

"Potential" isn't the same. Being a "potential Melbourne Cup winner" isn't winning it, until you do.

Keep getting off on a horse beating also-rans, but I still rate actual champions like Phar Lap, Let's Elope and Makybe Diva higher.

The "Gold medal" of Australian sprint horse racing is the Newmarket Handicap, Black caviar beat all opponents..and beat the handicapper

Just because you have only heard of 3 horse races doesnt mean the others are irrelevant.

The pinnacle of horse racing is Ascot, black caviar will head over there next year and destroy all opponents, like the champion she is.
 
The "Gold medal" of Australian sprint horse racing is the Newmarket Handicap, Black caviar beat all opponents..and beat the handicapper

Just because you have only heard of 3 horse races doesnt mean the others are irrelevant.

The pinnacle of horse racing is Ascot, black caviar will head over there next year and destroy all opponents, like the champion she is.

Lol i agree with most your points but Ascot is far from the pinnacle of racing, its just another carnival similar to ours. The prize money is nothing compared to our races either. I dont think there is a "pinnacle" as such anywhere. The Hong Kong sprint, Golden Shaheen are top races too.
 
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