Updated Bruce Lehrmann * Justice Lee - "Mr Lehrmann r*ped Ms Higgins."

[Kurve]

Historical Rape Allegation Against Fmr AG Christian Porter
The Alexander Matters matters

Just a reminder, this is the crime board and we need to be aware that there will be victims of crime either watching this thread or engaging in here from time to time. A degree of respect in all discussions is expected.

LINK TO TIMELINE
CJS INQUIRY
FINAL REPORT – BOARD OF INQUIRY – CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
Joint media statement – Chief Minister and Attorney-General

LINK TO FEDERAL COURT DEFAMATION PROCEEDINGS

 

[CM86]

I am acutely aware of that, CM86.

You are attacking my posts though and just because we strongly disagree with one aspect of this case, doesn't mean that I'm being disrespectful.

But we aren't disagreeing...

You're just stating that you're too busy to be across the issue, to engage with aspects that dispute your position.


Which was obviously not true, as I was only reposting part of the quote you yourself had previously posted to support your position.


We've now spent more time on your distraction, than the discussion, which is very personal when being so flippant.

 

[jason_recliner]

Can you expand on any of that please? I don't know the background you're referring to.

Not really. Lee ran through them, and I assume the detail is in his reasons (I haven't read the 320 pages), and it's all documented in this thread. There were instances of forgetting things which could be attributed to trauma but then there were instances of lies and fabrication like the deleted texts, making up the cover-up conspiracy, s##ting on Brown, etc, etc. Sorry, just don't have the time to summarise all references. She may have done those things because she was desperate for Leerman to be convicted and I get that but her dishonesty and willingness to s##t on others to get her way is not in question.

 

[CM86]

Not really. Lee ran through them, and I assume the detail is in his reasons (I haven't read the 320 pages), and it's all documented in this thread. There were instances of forgetting things which could be attributed to trauma but then there were instances of lies and fabrication like the deleted texts, making up the cover-up conspiracy, s##ting on Brown, etc, etc. Sorry, just don't have the time to summarise all references. She may have done those things because she was desperate for Leerman to be convicted and I get that but her dishonesty and willingness to s##t on others to get her way is not in question.

It probably is an unfair assumption on my behalf.


But can you or anyone else understand why I'd be frustrated at the idea that posters who are 3x - 5x more active in this thread, telling me that they 'don't have the time' to support their statements?

Especially when just previously asking me to support mine, and I did.



Even your post shows a disregard or lack of empathy of being a victim of sexual assault.
You can't say for sure what it is that Higgins did to make you distrust her equally to Reynolds. But you just 'know'.

 

[DapperDon]

You and the media have latched onto this as Justice Lee's 'mike drop' moment:

Pretty disgusting way to describe a rape.

 

[jason_recliner]

It probably is an unfair assumption on my behalf.


But can you or anyone else understand why I'd be frustrated at the idea that posters who are 3x - 5x more active in this thread, telling me that they 'don't have the time' to support their statements?

Especially when just previously asking me to support mine, and I did.



Even your post shows a disregard or lack of empathy of being a victim of sexual assault.
You can't say for sure what it is that Higgins did to make you distrust her equally to Reynolds. But you just 'know'.

To be fair, I gave a few examples. I know there are others but I don't have time to find them all. It's not air to say that because you could find me some references, I should be able to. Yours might have some up in a google search, you might have had them saved, you may not have the same demands of your time (I currently work two jobs), who knows. It's not practicable for me to do so to a standard that would add to the discussion.

I have empathy with victims of all kinds, I cannot stand people using their power to hurt others. That said, sometimes bad things happen to mediocre (or worse) people and I'll call out that behaviour, being a victim is not a get out of jail free card

 

[FIGJAM]

A. Why didn't Morrison know?

I don't know. Maybe those in his office were just letting things play out naturally before passing information on.

B. Why is his knowledge being covered up?

Assuming he did know about it, I don't know why he would lie about that. He's a complete idiot though, if that helps in our considerations!

For mine though, the more important question is; did ScoMo or anyone in the entire office actually put heat on Higgins to withdraw her complaint?

After two protracted criminal and civil trials, there was and is no evidence to this effect.

 

[FIGJAM]

Pretty disgusting way to describe a rape.

In hindsight I agree and I obviously wasn't thinking straight at the time.

My apologies!

 

[jason_recliner]

OK.


A. Why didn't Morrison know?

OR

B. Why is his knowledge being covered up?


Either way, it means the knowledge of the rape was covered up.

So, can you answer A or B?

It's completely implausible to me that, if somebody as widely despised as Scummo knows, everybody who knows Scummo knows is covering up for him and nobody has leaked it. So I'm going with he didn't know because he's an incompetent daft asshat. Perhaps he came back from a holiday and everybody thought "if we tell him he will only make things worse".

 

[CM86]

I don't know. Maybe those in his office were just letting things play out naturally before passing information on.


Assuming he did know about it, I don't know why he would lie about that. He's a complete idiot though, if that helps in our considerations!

For mine though, the more important question is; did ScoMo or anyone in the entire office actually put heat on Higgins to withdraw her complaint?

After two protracted criminal and civil trials, there was and is no evidence to this effect.

Why wouldn't Morrison be informed of an alleged rape in Parliament house in the office of his Minister for Defence Industry????

Let alone the immediate termination due to the clear breach of security protocols...
(that were also a standard operating procedure for the cleaners to 'look for condoms' or whatever...)?

 

[CM86]

It's completely implausible to me that, if somebody as widely despised as ScoMo knows, everybody who knows ScoMo knows is covering up for him and nobody has leaked it. So I'm going with he didn't know because he's an incompetent daft asshat.

So it was hidden from the PM?


Or, he's too stupid or something? Which... Not an excuse, right? Like that's just not good enough?

 

[jason_recliner]

So it was hidden from the PM?


Or, he's too stupid or something? Which... Not an excuse, right? Like that's just not good enough?

Are you expecting me to argue that Scummo was "good enough" to be PM (and Minister of whatever else he knighted himself with) of the 14th largest economy in the world? I'm shocked that you're shocked at his incompetence.

 

[CM86]

Are you expecting me to argue that Scummo was "good enough" to be PM (and Minister of whatever else he knighted himself with) of the 14th largest economy in the world? I'm shocked that you're shocked at his incompetence.

No.

But I know you're aware that he wasn't just a bumbling fool who tripped into being the PM. And that there is a body of people around him actively informing him and directing him.

And that a young woman was r*ped in Parliament house, in one of his Ministers office.

And that brushing it off as he didn't know cos he's dumb. And that it wasn't made public because it's so important is a frustrating position, to a person who thinks not enough is done to support\protect victims of SA.

 

[jason_recliner]

No.

But I know you're aware that he wasn't just a bumbling fool who tripped into being the PM. And that there is a body of people around him actively informing him and directing him.

And that a young woman was r*ped in Parliament house, in one of his Ministers office.

And that brushing it off as he didn't know cos he's dumb. And that it wasn't made public because it's so important is a frustrating position, to a person who thinks not enough is done to support\protect victims of SA.

OK, if he knew, why hasn't he been outed? He has A LOT of powerful enemies. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[CM86]

OK, if he knew, why hasn't he been outed? He has A LOT of powerful enemies. Again, we'll have to agree to disagree.

He held 5 ministerial positions without anyone 'knowing'...


If he didn't know.
Who withheld it from him???

 

[jason_recliner]

If he didn't know.
Who withheld it from him???

If he didn't know, everybody who knew withheld it from him. As long as somebody else was managing it, I don't know if he even would have cared to know.

 

[Kurve]

He held 5 ministerial positions without anyone 'knowing'...


If he didn't know.
Who withheld it from him???

PH was buzzing with it. Morrison would have been told, by word not in writing and it probably would have been Dutton who told him.

 

[CM86]

If he didn't know, everybody who knew withheld it from him. As long a somebody else was managing it, I don't know if he even would have cared to know.

If an alleged rape and breach of security that lead to immediate dismissal occurred, at such a high level. And it was withheld from the public and the head of the 'organisation'. Would that be a coverup in some regard?


As in, can you give any other scenario where this might happen, where the person in charge isn't informed because they're 'too stupid'?

 

[jason_recliner]

If an alleged rape and breach of security that lead to immediate dismissal occurred, at such a high level. And it was withheld from the public and the head of the 'organisation'. Would that be a coverup in some regard?


As in, can you give any other scenario where this might happen, where the person in charge isn't informed because they're 'too stupid'?

It wasn't high level, it was two junior staffers. There are plenty of people who want to get back at Scummo and would happily use either Higgins or Leerman to do it. Why haven't they? I think you're speculating a lot and I'd have to speculate wildly to answer - not my style, I like being right too much.

Possible factors...How many employees in PH, What is reporting structure, any silo effects, compartmentalisation, people not wanting to get in more trouble, people not wanting to create trouble, LAZINESS (imagine the paperwork associated with this), INCOMPETENCE (PH), people just not caring, assuming somebody else will do it, maybe he heard rumors of something but that was it... There's just so many variables, I just come back to if Scummo knew, I believe strongly we would know by now that the schemy back-stabber knew.

 

[CM86]

It wasn't high level, it was two junior staffers. There are plenty of people who want to get back at Scummo and would happily use either Higgins or Leerman to do it. Why haven't they? I think you're speculating a lot and I'd have to speculate wildly to answer - not my style, I like being right too much.

Possible factors...How many employees in PH, What is reporting structure, any silo effects, compartmentalisation, people not wanting to get in more trouble, people not wanting to create trouble, LAZINESS (imagine the paperwork associated with this), INCOMPETENCE (PH), people just not caring, assuming somebody else will do it, maybe he heard rumors of something but that was it... There's just so many variables, I just come back to if Scummo knew, I believe strongly we would know by now that the schemy back-stabber knew.

All of the above are incredibly important factors, and a reason why this should be setting a better standard across Australia...

On top of all of that...

Why do you think the investigations into who knew what were blocked, cancelled, lied about and the latest one is 'ongoing' with no end date?

 

[jason_recliner]

Why do you think the investigations into who knew what were blocked, cancelled, lied about and the latest one is 'ongoing' with no end date?

That's a good question. Possibly to not unduly influence any court proceedings? But I have no idea. I wouldn't expect an end date though, such an investigation should be completed at the appropriate time.

 

[CM86]

That's a good question. Possibly to not unduly influence any court proceedings? But I have no idea. I wouldn't expect an end date though, such an investigation should be completed at the appropriate time.

If you wouldn't accept that from the Israeli Government, why would you accept it from ours?

 

[Mick F]

OK.

What if someone was murdered in Parliament house?

You wouldn’t be able to be sure of their expressed desire to pursue the matter with the police. As distinct from a ‘silenced’ rape victim who may have been threatened by the rapist and/or senior officer if she reported the assault to the police.

There have been several reports into the appalling handling of bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault in PH. Still we continue to see young attractive females being employed, (for jobs they aren’t qualified for), plied with alcohol and r*ped. Reynolds management was ‘shithouse’ and her apologists should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[FIGJAM]

Reynolds management was ‘shithouse’ and her apologists should be ashamed of themselves.

“Apologists”?

Reynolds doesn’t have to be likeable.

She didn’t have to be all touchy feely and lovey dovey in the weeks after.

She had to push to report a potential assault to the police, which she did.

Then when she finds out that it’s definitely a rape, then walk that person to the police, which she did.

Did she do everything perfectly at the time? No, but few do!

Did she get caught up in the omnishambles from 2021 onwards? Hell yeah, but that has nothing to do with her 2019 management.

I know some people can’t get their heads around it, but Reynolds really didn’t do much wrong and after two trials, it’s clear that she certainly didn’t pressure Higgins to withdraw her complaint to the police. Not an apologist, but what’s the evidence that Justice Lee missed?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

“Apologists”?

Reynolds doesn’t have to be likeable.

She didn’t have to be all touchy feely and lovey dovey in the weeks after.

She had to push to report a potential assault to the police, which she did.

Then when she finds out that it’s definitely a rape, then walk that person to the police, which she did.

Did she do everything perfectly at the time? No, but few do!

Did she get caught up in the omnishambles from 2021 onwards? Hell yeah, but that has nothing to do with her 2019 management.

I know some people can’t get their heads around it, but Reynolds really didn’t do much wrong and after two trials, it’s clear that she certainly didn’t pressure Higgins to withdraw her complaint to the police. Not an apologist, but what’s the evidence that Justice Lee missed?

Do you agree that Reynolds reputation could be described as 'unlikeable'?

 

[FIGJAM]

Do you agree that Reynolds reputation could be described as 'unlikeable'?

I don’t like her (from the outside looking in), so very much so.