C Cameron v C Rioli v E Betts

[Cleansweep17]

Shout out to CuttlefishMcfly for solely holding up the C Cameron vote in the poll. We thank you for your service.

 

[MadMaxx]

In a thread like this.
What you do, is to ignore the votes and comments from the affiliated clubs.

And all the Neutrals are voting for Cyril.

There is the answer.

Edit, With special mention to Brisbane Supporter Bucking Beads , who also voted for Cyril

 

[PhatBoy]

In a thread like this.
What you do, is to ignore the votes and comments from the affiliated clubs.

And all the Neutrals are voting for Cyril.

There is the answer.

Edit, With special mention to Brisbane Supporter Bucking Beads , who also voted for Cyril

Is it? It’s an opinion poll, it’s not a scientifically binding outcome.

Cyril Rioli was an amazing player.
He also played his whole career in one of the best teams in modern footy, and retired before he had time to decline.

Eddie Betts spent most of his career in mediocre to atrocious teams with a bit of a stint in a good one. He had better attacking output than Rioli and is the all time leader in AFL history for goal assists.

He isn’t the defensive presence that Rioli is, but in finals he actually had the same tackle numbers as Rioli and his goal and assist output went UP, suggesting two things - basically that in better sides he probably would have had even better numbers (and his numbers are already outstanding but they go up a notch in the years he had good teams to play in) and that he lifted in finals which is always a mark that Rioli is graded on highly.


Had he not played those last two seasons with Carlton his overall career record would look even better.

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as what is being made out.

 

[Jeremias]

Geez, you're really doing Cameron a disservice here. A brilliant footballer, but nowhere near the other two.

 

[Rob R]

Any club would love to have any of them but Rioli and Betts are ahead of Cameron.

It is hard to compare based on stats alone given Rioli played more mid time and Betts played for teams that were pretty poor. Overall would put Betts slightly ahead as the better and more consistent fp who could still do the amazing

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[Eternal Schism]

Would have to go with Betts, incredibly longevity, and at his peak was easily the best of the three. You can see how his output rose at Adelaide when they were playing finals, if Betts played in a side as good as the Hawks were, he'd be putting 50-60+ goals on the board every season.

Rioli was exceptional though, his career was cut short, at his best very scintillating in one of the great forward lines of all time. Franklin, Roughead & Gunston were three elite players in that time, & IIRC Rioli, Bruest, Poppy were 3 of the top 5 forwards for scoring from turnovers / pressure acts across a fairly long period (anyone got a stat line - I remember this one from the game Poppy retired on CH7 IIRC).

Cameron a very good player, having a great career, but clearly not as good as the other 2.

What's insane is that Bruest was playing alongside Cyril

To compare, with some other small forward from the past - didn't include Daicos, not sure if he was a small forward for his era, iffy on Bruest being one too though he plays like it.

• Betts: 12.0 disposals, 1.8 goals, 3.0 tackles (350 games, 640 goals).
• Cameron: 11.4 disposals, 1.8 goals, 2.6 tackles (229 games, 404 goals).
• Rioli: 15.1 disposals, 1.5 goals, 4.6 tackles (189 games, 275 goals).
• Bruest 13.4 disposals, 1.8 goals, 3.5 tackles (300 games, 549 goals).
• Milne 11.9 Disposals, 2.1 goals, 1.7 tackles (275 games, 574 goals).
• Phil Matera 10.2 disposals, 2.2 goals, 1.4 tackles (179 games, 389 goals).
• Mark LeCras 14.6 disposals, 2.0 goals, 2.7 tackles (219 games, 441 goals).
• Jeff Farmer 11.6 disposals, 1.9 goals, 1.6 tackles (249 games, 483 goals).

Rioli's tackling numbers remain incredible here, as do disposals for the role. Matera absolutely exceptional goals per game.

To take the piss,
Leigh Matthews 22.2 disposals, 2.8 goals, tackles weren't recorded (332 games, 915 goals)

Insane to think he played as a midfielder / forward, as a pure small forward would have probably been the best of all time, let alone being one of the great midfielders, the measuring stick all goal kicking mids need to compare to, let alone small forwards.

 

[Back One Out]

We usually had Corey Enright to nullify Cyril.
But it's still Cyril, in that company.

I saw Corey Enright's recent appearance on The Front Bar. When asked who his toughest opponent was, he didn't even hesitate in answering... Cyril.

I found that interesting. If the GOAT small defender says his toughest opponent was Cyril, then surely this is worth more than glancing at a table of statistics.

According to the stats, Luke Breust was vastly superior to Cyril. As good as Luke Breust has been over the course of his career, I doubt you'll find a single Hawthorn supporter (or any football purist) who would even compare him to Cyril.

Corey Enright had a great record against Rioli. Cyril got him few times, but over the journey, Enright had the wood on him. I reckon Corey played more defensively than usual in those games v Hawthorn. Part of his greatness was the attacking drive he gave Geelong from defence with his 25-30 quality disposals. He was never quite as prominent in games vs Hawthorn. More head down, bum up and concentrating 100% on nullifying Cyril

 

[PhatBoy]

I saw Corey Enright's recent appearance on The Front Bar. When asked who his toughest opponent was, he didn't even hesitate in answering... Cyril.

I found that interesting. If the GOAT small defender says his toughest opponent was Cyril, then surely this is worth more than glancing at a table of statistics.

According to the stats, Luke Breust was vastly superior to Cyril. As good as Luke Breust has been over the course of his career, I doubt you'll find a single Hawthorn supporter (or any football purist) who would even compare him to Cyril.

Corey Enright had a great record against Rioli. Cyril got him few times, but over the journey, Enright had the wood on him. I reckon Corey played more defensively than usual in those games v Hawthorn. Part of his greatness was the attacking drive he gave Geelong from defence with his 25-30 quality disposals. He was never quite as prominent in games vs Hawthorn. More head down, bum up and concentrating 100% on nullifying Cyril

He also wouldn’t have actually played as much on Betts though as a direct opponent. There’s a perception that Enright played as a back pocket and blanked forward pockets to make a name for himself. He was literally still being named in the Cats centre line up until midway through 2009 and was on the half-back line in 2011 and a year or two after. It makes sense that with Rioli playing a bit higher up the field than guys like Betts and Cameron, he probably had to deal with Rioli a lot more

 

[Lingsface]

With Cameron If we are leaning so much towards the other two players because of finals.

Cameron has now kicked 46 goals and is the leader of all current players.

4 goals from top 20 all time and only behind Kevin Bartlett for small forwards that I see, unless we count Leigh Matthews.

I voted Cyril btw.