Can Sydney keep Warner and avoid more trade bans?

[CharlieMortdecai]

Holy shit, you actually not only clipped that quote in half, you took half a quote from an entire page to try and make your point.

So the full quote was" The Academy allows the Sydney Swans to have the best possible talent on field, but also produces well-rounded individuals well-equipped for wherever they may end up in life."

Alongside other quotes like
""I would describe the Academy as a family, everyone is here with the common goal to enjoy footy."

Pretty poor form from you. Again.

Are you ****ing kidding me? I assume you read what you C+Ped. Do you think it is at all relevant to the discussion that the Swans would like their elite talent to be good citizens? Does it somehow change the meaning of the words I quoted?

And yay, it's one big happy family. Sure not everyone will make it, but the good thing is everyone who does can stay in the family! Hooray, don't have to go to horrible Perth or Adelaide or worst of all Melbourne. Huzzah!

 

[.Shotties.]

Are you ****ing kidding me? I assume you read what you C+Ped. Do you think it is at all relevant to the discussion that the Swans would like their elite talent to be good citizens? Does it somehow change the meaning of the words I quoted?

Yeah, removing the context that they're not purely focussed on skimming elite talent as you claimed changes the meaning a lot. It would take the most cooked interpretation of that full quote to think "This only applies to the draftable ones."

You absolutely did not just seek out and edit a single sentence about the academy for brevity's sake.

And yay, it's one big happy family. Sure not everyone will make it,

No, but the investment is the same at each level for all kids coming through the academy which is something you think doesn't happen.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Also you guys should just get on board with the foundation and just admit it's a ****ing rort and you ****ing love it.
They do because they want your money. Any other justification is pretty difficult when you're sitting pretty with one loss and I assume the shortest priced round 15 favourites for a few years.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Yeah, removing the context that they're not purely focussed on skimming elite talent as you claimed changes the meaning a lot. You absolutely did not just seek out and edit a single sentence about the academy for brevity's sake.

No, but the investment is the same at each level for all kids coming through the academy which is something you think doesn't happen.

Oh my god, you're going to persist with this? I never said anything about varying levels of investment in football by the Swans in NSW. Feel free to link me to the details, and no I am not going to look it up myself.
Of course their talent development pool has to be more than the very elite. You can't skim from nothing. How many kids you reckon never make it in VicWASA?
My argument has always been the draft concessions are not a necessary part of football development and talent pathways. A Swan supporter is yet to convince me why this is a vital component of academies.
And **** me, even if they're not relevant, how much stock are you putting in these motherhood statements?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

How is the academy funded btw? I think Philhawk is wrong and it's not out of the distribution but comes from this foundation. Which is all private donations?
Check out the board for a throwback to the days of (almost) dead white male corporatocracy!

Our Team

www.sydneyswansfoundation.org.au

Anyway, is there a cap on the funding? I assume it's additional to the soft cap.

 

[.Shotties.]

Oh my god, you're going to persist with this?

Yeah, you made a claim then edited a quote to take it out of context to support your claim.

never said anything about varying levels of investment in football by the Swans in NSW. Feel free to link me to the details, and no I am not going to look it up myself.

That's the basis of your entire last few posts, that GWS runs their academy out of the goodness of their heart and that Sydney is only focussed on skimming elite talent, despite training and developing hundreds of players each year who won't get anywhere near the AFL. Your basis for this seems to be the completely benign statement that the academy is open to any kid living in the catchment area and a quote you edited.

Of course their talent development pool has to be more than the very elite. You can't skim from nothing. How many kids you reckon never make it in VicWASA?

I don't even know what you're trying to argue here.

My argument has always been the draft concessions are not a necessary part of football development and talent pathways. A Swan supporter is yet to convince me why this is a vital component of academies.

Because it incentivises the set up and continued running of the most successful talent development systems in two of the country's most populous states which have had a direct impact on grassroots participation in those areas and allows teams in non-traditional states a chance to access home-state talent at the top end of the draft.

And **** me, even if they're not relevant, how much stock are you putting in these motherhood statements?

What?

 

[.Shotties.]

How is the academy funded btw? I think Philhawk is wrong and it's not out of the distribution but comes from this foundation. Which is all private donations?

It's been posted in this very thread how it's funded.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

That's the basis of your entire last few posts, that GWS runs their academy out of the goodness of their heart and that Sydney is only focussed on skimming elite talent, despite training and developing hundreds of players each year who won't get anywhere near the AFL. Your basis for this seems to be the completely benign statement that the academy is open to any kid living in the catchment area and a quote you edited.

Lol, don't take it so seriously it's just a jibe. But, it does show that academies and talent pathways can exist without the requirement of draft concessions.

I don't even know what you're trying to argue here.

What I am saying is, yes, I do understand that the academy touches more than just the Heeneys and Guldens of this world. It's patently obvious, it would not work otherwise.

Because it incentivises the set up and continued running of the most successful talent development systems in two of the country's most populous states which have had a direct impact on grassroots participation in those areas and allows teams in non-traditional states a chance to access home-state talent at the top end of the draft.

"Incentivises". That is your key word. The Swans would not run the academies unless they were motivated by self-interest. Correct.
Also you have made this claim a few times about increasing grassroots participation and the evidence is easy to find (you wrote earlier). Can you link it?

What

"Motherhood statements" are all the touch feely comments by the Swans Foundation, stuff about being "a family" and producing "well-rounded individuals". Some organisations say that sort of crap but do not actually do it. Others live by it. I have no idea where the Swans academy sits on that spectrum.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

It's been posted in this very thread how it's funded.

Okay, but I haven't read every post in this thread. Throw me a bone and tell me where it is please!

 

[.Shotties.]

Okay, but I haven't read every post in this thread. Throw me a bone and tell me where it is please!

Use the absolute most basic thinking and research skills. It would take about 30 seconds to get the answer.

Lol, don't take it so seriously it's just a jibe. But, it does show that academies and talent pathways can exist without the requirement of draft concessions.

Sure they can. They did before in multiple forms in NSW that were mostly ineffective. This current form is not, given the rise in draftable players, the increase in grassroots participation, and the number of academy graduates going back into the community football pool and growing that.

What I am saying is, yes, I do understand that the academy touches more than just the Heeneys and Guldens.

Yet here you are.

"Incentivises". That is your key word. The Swans would not run the academies unless they were motivated by self-interest. Correct.

Has there been any club that has set up and run for over a decade the only development pathway in an area where football is the second or third sport to the tune of 2 million plus a year out of the goodness of their heart?

This isn't the gotcha you think it is. The Swans get a chance to access home-state talent in the same manner other clubs do, the talent pool is widened, community football benefits greatly from it.

Also you have made this claim a few times about increasing grassroots participation and the evidence is easy to find (you wrote earlier). Can you link it?

You can literally look up participation rates year on year from 2010.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Use the absolute most basic thinking and research skills. It would take about 30 seconds to get the answer.

Oh **** off, you clearly don't know how it is funded. I challenge you to give me a 3 sentence summary of the funding arrangements.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

You can literally look up participation rates year on year from 2010.

Which you clearly have never done. You have not quantified this increase in participation rates once, and you obviously don't know it, or have the ability to put it in the context of participation rates say in the period 2000-2010.

 

[Philhawk]

In any case, it's not. It's sponsored and paid for by QBE with some money coming from the foundation.

How is the academy funded btw? I think Philhawk is wrong and it's not out of the distribution but comes from this foundation. Which is all private donations?
Check out the board for a throwback to the days of (almost) dead white male corporatocracy!

Our Team

www.sydneyswansfoundation.org.au

Anyway, is there a cap on the funding? I assume it's additional to the soft cap.

Despite all the idiotic protestations from Shotties about how it’s corporate funded by QBE, maybe he should check to see what the Swans say about it on their own website.

Josh Kennedy named Sydney Swans Foundation Ambassador

The former captain and premiership player will give back to the sport in his new role with the Sydney Swans.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Thanks to the support of generous donors, Sydney Swans Foundation can provide vital funding to the QBE Sydney Swans Academy. The Academy not only ensures that the Sydney Swans have the best talent on the field, but assists in equipping individuals for off field success .

Oops.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Sure they can. They did before in multiple forms in NSW that were mostly ineffective. This current form is not, given the rise in draftable players, the increase in grassroots participation, and the number of academy graduates going back into the community football pool and growing that.

Great. The AFL should steal your model and run it themselves.

 

[.Shotties.]

Oh **** off, you clearly don't know how it is funded. I challenge you to give me a 3 sentence summary of the funding arrangements.

QBE sponsors it and covers the majority of it. A fact available with about 30 seconds on google.

 

[.Shotties.]

Despite all the idiotic protestations from Shotties about how it’s corporate funded by QBE,

What do you think the principal sponsor of something is, Phil? Your link shows exactly what I said. QBE covers the majority and the foundation puts in a bit.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Despite all the idiotic protestations from Shotties about how it’s corporate funded by QBE, maybe he should check to see what the Swans say about it on their own website.

Josh Kennedy named Sydney Swans Foundation Ambassador

The former captain and premiership player will give back to the sport in his new role with the Sydney Swans.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Oops.

So QBE and a coterie group?

Does the AFL put any cap on what they can spend?

 

[BloodySwan]

Also you guys should just get on board with the foundation and just admit it's a ****ing rort and you ****ing love it.
They do because they want your money. Any other justification is pretty difficult when you're sitting pretty with one loss and I assume the shortest priced round 15 favourites for a few years.

I think this view is pretty hilarious, because it underpins the general attitude to academies and the Swans.

You have no issue to back anything so long as it doesn't actually improve the Swans.

Essendon won 20 in a row in 2000
St Kilda won 19 in a row in 2009
Geelong went 21-1 in 2008
Swans are currently sitting at 11-1. Honestly a real amazing effort, but other clubs have done better.

Your attitude is the Swans are a rort on the system and must be stopped. Swans, don't get comfortable is the clear message - the freaking joke point of this thread. Because the last time we followed the rules and were successful we got punished.

 

[Maddo11]

QBE Sydney Swans Academy explained

Chairman Andrew Pridham clarifies the importance of the development of the four northern state Academies

www.sydneyswans.com.au

"he Academy costs the Sydney Swans in excess of $1 million per annum to run and is largely funded by donations and corporate support."

Seems pretty clear

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

QBE sponsors it and covers the majority of it. A fact available with about 30 seconds on google.

How much do they tip in, and how much does the coterie group tip in? A few corporate heavy hitters on its board, who seemed to be instrumental in getting a massive state government grant for facilities upgrade.

Lol, it's all such Geelong behaviour, but done in such a Sydney style.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

QBE Sydney Swans Academy explained

Chairman Andrew Pridham clarifies the importance of the development of the four northern state Academies

www.sydneyswans.com.au

"he Academy costs the Sydney Swans in excess of $1 million per annum to run and is largely funded by donations and corporate support."

Seems pretty clear

Lol, in 2014. What do you reckon it is today? I looked at the Swans AR but as far as I can tell it's not separately accounted for.

 

[Philhawk]

So QBE and a coterie group?

Does the AFL put any cap on what they can spend?

Don’t be silly. Of course not.

Despite being “two different things”, the foundation partly funds the academy, which in turn skims the best players to play for the Swans for free.

What funds the foundation? We’ll never know. You can claim a tax deduction for donating to the foundation, but there’s never any annual reports issued by the foundation to disclose details around use of funds.

But remember, the entire AFL wins from this arrangement.

 

[.Shotties.]

How much do they tip in, and how much does the coterie group tip in?

Coterie groups don't tip in anything. That's a label you've falsely put on it.

A few corporate heavy hitters on its board, who seemed to be instrumental in getting a massive state government grant for facilities upgrade.

Lol, it's all such Geelong behaviour, but done in such a Sydney style.

You're just writing fanfiction at this point.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I think this view is pretty hilarious, because it underpins the general attitude to academies and the Swans.

You have no issue to back anything so long as it doesn't actually improve the Swans.

Essendon won 20 in a row in 2000
St Kilda won 19 in a row in 2009
Geelong went 21-1 in 2008
Swans are currently sitting at 11-1. Honestly a real amazing effort, but other clubs have done better.

Your attitude is the Swans are a rort on the system and must be stopped. Swans, don't get comfortable is the clear message - the freaking joke point of this thread. Because the last time we followed the rules and were successful we got punished.

Well, I did say "a few years" - your most recent example is 2009.

Pfft, I'm not barracking for you to be punished for following rules. I just think the rules should be changed. You are reading an awful lot into what I said.

But I guess you are right in a general sense, I don't think the Swans need special rules "to improve". You're a mature, successful club. ****in' hell, 11-1, played in a recent GF, apart from the obvious there's not a lot of scope for improvement.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

You can claim a tax deduction for donating to the foundation, but there’s never any annual reports issued by the foundation to disclose details around use of funds.

No you cannot. I searched their ABN (also looking for an annual report), they are not a DGR.