Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 15 vs. Adelaide, MCG Sun 25/06, 1:10pm

[Chrispiesssss]

I’m personally not a fan of Frampton in the backline and Markov as the sub.

I think we are too tall and too slow in the backline. I think our defence plays better when we are on the “edge” rather than when we are slow and heavy.

Everyone in the gameday thread was mad at our forwards for not leading at the ball. I think this is where we missed Elliot & Ginni - who tend to lead at the kicker. AJ is the same, but couldn’t hold onto marks.

Out: AJ, Cameron, Harvey
In: Elliot, McStay

Sub: WHE

I’d play Frampton as the ruck and Cox as the KPF. I love AJ, but he goes missing too much at the moment. Harvey very unlucky, but we just need forwards to lead at the football.

Don’t think so. The way I see it is the 22 who were playing at the end of the game is the team.

So Elliot & McStay replace Cameron & Harvey.

WHE “drops” out to the sub and AJ is out of the 23.

 

[Go Pies!!!!!]

OUT : Cameron, Harrison, McInness
IN McStay, Ginnivan, Elliott

Think we are better with Cox number 1 Ruck with Frampton & Mcstay helping out.
Harrison has showed signs but was always temp, McInness is still only 20 needs to get more VFL game time.
SUB Markov

Interesting Selections coming up with Howe, Degoey and Sidebottom to come back.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I’m personally not a fan of Frampton in the backline and Markov as the sub.

I think we are too tall and too slow in the backline. I think our defence plays better when we are on the “edge” rather than when we are slow and heavy.

Everyone in the gameday thread was mad at our forwards for not leading at the ball. I think this is where we missed Elliot & Ginni - who tend to lead at the kicker. AJ is the same, but couldn’t hold onto marks.

Out: AJ, Cameron, Harvey
In: Elliot, McStay

Sub: WHE

I’d play Frampton as the ruck and Cox as the KPF. I love AJ, but he goes missing too much at the moment. Harvey very unlucky, but we just need forwards to lead at the football.

Frampton didn't ever seem to have an opponent. I assumed he was there to play fairly tightly on a gorilla, perhaps that young high marking guy in this case who kicked goals for Melbourne in the last quarter the previous week. If Frampton's role is to play loose in defence, there doesn't seem much point playing him. Others play that role better than him.

 

[sr36]

Don’t think so. The way I see it is the 22 who were playing at the end of the game is the team.

So Elliot & McStay replace Cameron & Harvey.

WHE “drops” out to the sub and AJ is out of the 23.

But haven't you got WHE, Cameron and Harvey dropping out of the final 22 - and only McStay and Elliott coming in?

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

I’m personally not a fan of Frampton in the backline and Markov as the sub.

I think we are too tall and too slow in the backline. I think our defence plays better when we are on the “edge” rather than when we are slow and heavy.

Everyone in the gameday thread was mad at our forwards for not leading at the ball. I think this is where we missed Elliot & Ginni - who tend to lead at the kicker. AJ is the same, but couldn’t hold onto marks.

Out: AJ, Cameron, Harvey
In: Elliot, McStay

Sub: WHE

I’d play Frampton as the ruck and Cox as the KPF. I love AJ, but he goes missing too much at the moment. Harvey very unlucky, but we just need forwards to lead at the football.

Agree, we missed Billy & Ginni.

 

[timokane]

out: johnson (think he needs to find some form in the vfl) WHE (see johnson) cameron (see WHE)
in: mcstay mcinnes elliott

Howe probably to return for the gold coast game the week after

Side the week after that along with JDG.

Think the likes of Cameron and Johson just needs to find form via the vfl say for 2 matches then come in likewise WHE.

Mcstay back in the forward line with Elliott and McInness can play off half back.

Need to win this one to keep us a breast at the top of the ladder.

Need a stableising win to get everything on an even keal again.

Pies to win by 17 points

 

[ipswichpies]

Pretty funny to see Kreuger appear on quite a lot of ins here after 1 strong game, only 2 weeks ago some were calling for him to be delisted!
He needs to string a few more games together to be considered imo. However, I think there is a world where he is playing down the stretch of the season.

After further thought from the game, I expect the below changes occurring over the next 4-5 weeks.

IN: Sidebottom, OUT: Hoskin-Elliott
IN: Elliott, OUT: McInnes
IN: DeGoey, OUT: Harrison
IN: McStay, OUT: Johnson
IN: Howe, OUT: Frampton

Could we go more mobile, playing Kreuger or Johnson instead of the 2nd ruck?

Actually Krueger has played 2 strong games but he does need another 3 weeks in the 2 s but if he is going alright I would probably pick him before either Johnson or McStay just so much more physical than both of those 2.

 

[Pacman Carney]

Absolutely. Didnt some "respected" people in the media . ( i use the term respected loosely) have us as 1-5 etc etc

Lions and Dees both outplayed us. Both games had that stifiling slow play and possession ball against us, so we couldnt make it chaotic and fast. Lot to take out of both losses.

We were literally being pinned in our D50 in both games and unable to run it out

Jordan Lewis, had us out of the 8
Had Carlton top 4
And Essendon in the 8

 

[Pistol Night]

Jordan Lewis, had us out of the 8
Had Carlton top 4
And Essendon in the 8

I find it piss weak when ex players who are now in the media cant put aside their obvious hatred and give educated analysis. Montagna, Lewis come to mind

 

[lenny20]

A few in here have floated the idea of Howe the forward, but if I’m going a bit (a lot) left field then I don’t hate the idea of Howe the winger.

He has an elite tank, good speed, good foot skills, a strong contested game, and obviously is one of the very best in the league aerially. I could honestly think he possesses the skillset to play a Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

style of wingman role - a real match winner and genuine point of difference.

We’re kinda flush for defenders with the emergence of IQ, Frampton, Murphy, Noble, and even Markov/Ruscoe showing promise when given chances. And the wing is an area of need so long as Sidebum is injured, and WHE (whose effort shouldn’t be questioned btw) is down on execution.

Look, I know it won’t happen… but all I’m saying is that if the ball spills loose to a one-on-one between Lachie Hunter and Jeremy Howe

38

Jeremy Howe

Age

34

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

21.5

5star

K

16.5

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

6.5

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

433.3

5star

D

15.2

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

, I’m backing Howe to win it 90% of the time.

 

[windchimes]

A few in here have floated the idea of Howe the forward, but if I’m going a bit (a lot) left field then I don’t hate the idea of Howe the winger.

He has an elite tank, good speed, good foot skills, a strong contested game, and obviously is one of the very best in the league aerially. I could honestly think he possesses the skillset to play a Mason Wood style of wingman role - a real match winner and genuine point of difference.

We’re kinda flush for defenders with the emergence of IQ, Frampton, Murphy, Noble, and even Markov/Ruscoe showing promise when given chances. And the wing is an area of need so long as Sidebum is injured, and WHE (whose effort shouldn’t be questioned btw) is down on execution.

Look, I know it won’t happen… but all I’m saying is that if the ball spills loose to a one-on-one between Lachie Hunter and Jeremy Howe, I’m backing Howe to win it 90% of the time.

Given the nature of Howe's injury, I wouldn't have thought bringing a player back from that through the midfield would be the way to go.

I do see where you're coming from though.

 

[peter9789]

I would hate to be a selector with so many pushing for selection or returning from injury. Surprised that McStay didnt have a run in the VFL on the weekend so you might speculate that he is not ready yet to make an AFL comeback.

I would expect only minimal changes for the Adelaide game

Out: Markov (unlucky but needs a full game to maintain fitness and touch instead of being a sub)

In: Elliott

WHE to be the sub - had a poor game but has done enough to stay for mine (and I'm not his biggest fan). I would persist with McInnes but move him up onto the wing.

Don't see a spot for Ginnivan.


B: IQ - Frampton - Murphy

HB: Maynard - Moore - Noble

C: Daicos J - Mitchell - McInnes

HF: Crisp - Johnson - Lipinski

FF: MCreery - Mihocek - Hill

Foll: Cox - Pendles - Daicos N

IC: Adams, Elliott, Cameron, Harrison

Waiting in the wings - Howe, Sidey; JDG, McStay, Markov

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

I would hate to be a selector with so many pushing for selection or returning from injury. Surprised that McStay didnt have a run in the VFL on the weekend so you might speculate that he is not ready yet to make an AFL comeback.

I would expect only minimal changes for the Adelaide game

Out: Markov (unlucky but needs a full game to maintain fitness and touch instead of being a sub)

In: Elliott

WHE to be the sub - had a poor game but has done enough to stay for mine (and I'm not his biggest fan). I would persist with McInnes but move him up onto the wing.

Don't see a spot for Ginnivan.


B: IQ - Frampton - Murphy

HB: Maynard - Moore - Noble

C: Daicos J - Mitchell - McInnes

HF: Crisp - Johnson - Lipinski

FF: MCreery - Mihocek - Hill

Foll: Cox - Pendles - Daicos N

IC: Adams, Elliott, Cameron, Harrison

Waiting in the wings - Howe, Sidey; JDG, McStay, Markov

Mcstay was ready to play but jarred his finger that he had operated on, so fly said he wanted to not risk it and give the extra week with the bye.

 

[unplugged]

Wonder if the 6 day break going into the game after up on the Gold Coast will have any impact on whether any of Kreuger, Howe or McStay play.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

out: johnson (think he needs to find some form in the vfl) WHE (see johnson) cameron (see WHE)
in: mcstay mcinnes elliott

Howe probably to return for the gold coast game the week after

Side the week after that along with JDG.

Think the likes of Cameron and Johson just needs to find form via the vfl say for 2 matches then come in likewise WHE.

Mcstay back in the forward line with Elliott and McInness can play off half back.

Need to win this one to keep us a breast at the top of the ladder.

Need a stableising win to get everything on an even keal again.

Pies to win by 17 points

Why would you bring McInness in when he was already in the side and on the strength of his game should be out of it?

 

[manicpie]

I think the only 2 changes will be in, McStay and Elliott and going out will be McInnes and Markov

 

[MoreMoore]

In : Elliot McStay Krueger
Out Cameron Johnson Harrison

 

[unplugged]

In : Elliot McStay Krueger
Out Cameron Johnson Harrison

We only limped over the line against Adelaide without a ruck last time. Let's not do it again by choice.

 

[Ingy]

Cameron took a bunch of nice marks - defensively especially, but also in attack.

I don't think he was that bad.

In fact, I reckon if he hadn't had to leave the ground with the blood rule twice near the end, we win.

I'll be surprised if he's dropped

 

[sr36]

Cameron took a bunch of nice marks - defensively especially, but also in attack.

I don't think he was that bad.

In fact, I reckon if he hadn't had to leave the ground with the blood rule twice near the end, we win.

I'll be surprised if he's dropped

I think he's safe too. I think they really value his aerial game around the ground. I think he's an issue around stoppage though.

 

[swoop42]

Nothing in the game against Melbourne has me convinced yet that a side containing all of Moore, Murphy, Frampton, Cameron, Cox, Mihocek, McStay and Johnson is the right way to go.

Looks to top heavy by at least 1 tall and that's before you even consider the eventual availability of Howe.

While playing all of the above will increase our size across the ground it's how it dilutes our ability to move the ball quickly with run that worries me.

For mine I still haven't given up on the concept of us trying the one ruck option in favour of the 3 tall forwards but appreciate that isn't likely to occur after the bye.

The other option would be to omit a Frampton or Murphy if we believed one needed to make way to allow for a 2 ruck / 3 tall forward setup.

Murphy is the more talented defender and is somewhat a mini Moore so it's hard to make any justification for his omission but those extra few inches and kilograms is why we targeted Frampton.

To be honest I'm actually wondering if Moore, Murphy and Frampton are the group of talls that are the lock for our 22 and it's the ruck and forward divisions where we'll look to experiment in.

Frampton in particular could be the surprise key that allows us that freedom because he was far from disgraced during his time in the ruck and depending on the opposition he could be swung between being a 3rd tall forward/relief ruck or used as a key defender who rucks in his zone and we look to mimic how Geelong use Hawkins to lighten the load on their 1st ruck.

 

[Big Bryza]

Wow. Last time I checked they were saying rounds 15-17.

Our next game is in Round 15.

I daresay Howey will return through the VFL for a couple of games to rebuild match fitness and confidence.

 

[Big Bryza]

What about exiting D50 by foot? Gawn got votes in the AFLCA so I’m assuming he clunked a few.

The Crows game was another I missed, but the sense I got was we just couldn’t get ground position because their talls were dominant. I felt the same v Brisbane where we were camped in our D50 which lead to a bunch of repeat entries and repeat contests where they surged it forward.

The loss of both Steele and JDG has a compounding effect on us so as we stand eking out a couple of wins v Adelaide and GC would shock me because I have concerns. Despite the reinforcements in Elliott and McStay.

The 3 best players on the ground were Viney, May and Salem... then daylight. Gawn played loose behind the footy whenever the ball was locked inside Melbournes forward 50. He was far from dominant so i'm surprised he received votes.

 

[Big Bryza]

I’m personally not a fan of Frampton in the backline and Markov as the sub.

I think we are too tall and too slow in the backline. I think our defence plays better when we are on the “edge” rather than when we are slow and heavy.

Everyone in the gameday thread was mad at our forwards for not leading at the ball. I think this is where we missed Elliot & Ginni - who tend to lead at the kicker. AJ is the same, but couldn’t hold onto marks.

Out: AJ, Cameron, Harvey
In: Elliot, McStay

Sub: WHE

I’d play Frampton as the ruck and Cox as the KPF. I love AJ, but he goes missing too much at the moment. Harvey very unlucky, but we just need forwards to lead at the football.

Melbourne trapped the ball inside their forward 50, allowing Gawn and May to set up loose behind the footy all day. Our forwards weren't allowed the luxury of space, a huge reason for their poor performances.

We lacked any dare with the footy and refused to switch it all day, partly due to the Dees smalls clogging up the middle of the ground and working hard to cover the fat side of the ground.

FWIW, Melbourne showed their hand, i have no doubt we'll counter it next time with some key personnel to return.

 

[Big Bryza]

Agree, we missed Billy & Ginni.

Has Ginny played a good game against a top 4 side before?