Asia China's growing influence

[Mofra]

It's amazing that for all the talk on global politics China does not have a dedicated thread considering it's current activities.

Depending on which global research group you believe, China will overtake the US as the world's largest economy by the end of this year or by the end of 2020. They are far less overt in their overseas influence (i.e. less likely to bomb the crap out of semi-literate peasants in the name of 'peace') but Chinese influence economically and diplomatically is growing at a pace as fast as their ongoing modernization.

It was only a few years ago they transformed their population from predominantly agrarian to predominantly urban and this rapid transformation is ongoing.

There are talks they are seeking to establish a permanent naval base in the Pacific to solidify their ability to project military power, an ability that is rapidly growing as their South China Sea activities become more overt.

For any interesting articles or information about China please post here.

 

[RupieDupie]

It's amazing that for all the talk on global politics China does not have a dedicated thread considering it's current activities.

Depending on which global research group you believe, China will overtake the US as the world's largest economy by the end of this year or by the end of 2020. They are far less overt in their overseas influence (i.e. less likely to bomb the crap out of semi-literate peasants in the name of 'peace') but Chinese influence economically and diplomatically is growing at a pace as fast as their ongoing modernization.

It was only a few years ago they transformed their population from predominantly agrarian to predominantly urban and this rapid transformation is ongoing.

There are talks they are seeking to establish a permanent naval base in the Pacific to solidify their ability to project military power, an ability that is rapidly growing as their South China Sea activities become more overt.

For any interesting articles or information about China please post here.

The Chinese are smart, way smarter than the Australian Gubmint, they figured out that they can subjugate a whole nation by buying a few bits of key real estate here and there, and pay a few politicians here and there, and as a result, reduce a whole nation to slavery. I believe all my salary goes into paying rent to Mr such-and-such holdings Inc China. It’s only a matter of time before we swear in our Asian overlords.

I believe the conversation will go something like this;

Chemically imbalanced Prime Minister Malcom Turnbull - “Ladies and gentlemen, members of the associated press, I needed a bit more munny so I sold our country, any questions?”

Associated press - “Mr Turnbull! Mr Turnbull! Rabble! Rabble! Rabble! What about ‘Stralians?”

Chemically imbalanced Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull - “Now now! If labour had there way two retired pensioners would lose their fracking credits and won’t be able to get ahead with a negative geared property. For shame Labour! For shame!”

Associated press - “Well we’re convinced, anyone speak Mandarin?”

 

[HenrikLundqvist]

The Australian government are whores for letting this country's crippled infrastructure be overrun by foreigners.

Melbourne has turned into the world's most liveable shithole.

 

[JW Frogen]

I think China has made it's first real huge political and tactical mistake in almost 40 years since Deng Xiaoping ended the age to the Red Emperor's with the death of Mao and reformed the economy in a unique way, more freedom but still centralized direction.

The Chinese Communist Party came up with a novel solution to innovation and new blood, term limits with-in the party leadership and well thought out mentorship unto leadership.

With the rise of Xi Jinping that has all been thrown into the ash heap as he has purged the party of opposition and ended term limits.

All this means that the internal Communist Party debate and innovation that was occurring before his rise will be frozen in fear of him.

And that cannot be good for China or the world.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Nice break-down here from Corbett on the possible repercussions following the U.S withdrawal from the Iranian Nuclear deal.

Should they use their extensive muscle in forcing Europe to follow suite, then guess who will benefit, in taking over the biggest gas fields in the world?

China!

 

[Procrastinator35]

China on the move to end U.S oil monopoly.

 

[Werewolf]

Crackdown on Islam: Chinese mass-indoctrination camps in Muslim-majority Xinjiang evoke Cultural Revolution

Also on Christianity: China's underground Catholic churches resist mounting Beijing pressure to control religion

 

[MaddAdam]

Good thread.

Australia is going to find out very soon what "choosing" between China's "benign" trade-friendly relationship and the US security pact looks like.

 

[madmug]

Good thread.

Australia is going to find out very soon what "choosing" between China's "benign" trade-friendly relationship and the US security pact looks like.

As if anyone thinks the US will jump to protect Little Oz from them yellow ones, should think again. Those days are gone. The US is totally self interested.

They'd cosy up to Indonesia before us anytime.

We need a neutral approach. Friends but not beholden to China, US & India.

 

[MaddAdam]

As if anyone thinks the US will jump to protect Little Oz from them yellow ones, should think again. Those days are gone. The US is totally self interested.

They'd cosy up to Indonesia before us anytime.

We need a neutral approach. Friends but not beholden to China, US & India.

Hmmm, ummmmm, naaaaaah.

The US bases at Pine Gap and Exmouth are pivotal to its military.

The US has ALWAYS been utterly self interested.

The US would not be protecting Australia from China, it would be protecting the friendly government that allows it to run its facilities at Pine Gap and Exmouth without question.

 

[madmug]

Hmmm, ummmmm, naaaaaah.

The US bases at Pine Gap and Exmouth are pivotal to its military.

The US has ALWAYS been utterly self interested.

The US would not be protecting Australia from China, it would be protecting the friendly government that allows it to run its facilities at Pine Gap and Exmouth without question.

Well we think their pivotal. They were built in the cold war. Im sure US technology has moved on since.

I'd be surprised if they still relied on those old stations that much now.

 

[MaddAdam]

Well we think their pivotal. They were built in the cold war. Im sure US technology has moved on since.

I'd be surprised if they still relied on those old stations that much now.

Um, they do keep the equipment inside up to date and it is their location that is vital.

Pine gap is controls all US satellite stuff on this side of the world as it were. Geo stationary satellites that run all the drones and JDAMS etc over the Middle East.

Who knows what they're actually doing at Exmouth but again they run naval comms for a huge and very active slice of the world from their.

Also, Australia is an unsinkable aircraft carrier/drone platform.

If China has moved it's bases and their associated range to just off the phillipines then our importance grows again.

 

[HairyO]

Well we think their pivotal. They were built in the cold war. Im sure US technology has moved on since.

I'd be surprised if they still relied on those old stations that much now.

You think they have 1950s technology there still?

 

[madmug]

You think they have 1950s technology there still?

Do you think they rely on bases built in that era?

 

[HairyO]

Do you think they rely on bases built in that era?

When was the White House built? Do you reckon the Situation Room is the same in 2018 as it was in 1915?

 

[MaddAdam]

Do you think they rely on bases built in that era?

Mate, as I keep telling you, it is the physical location that is as important as anything inside it.

You need to get your head around what geo-synchronous satellites are, what they are used for,

Snowden leaked stuff proving it is used as a key ground station for the satelittes that run the war over Afghan and Iraq (notably the drone stuff)

 

[madmug]

When was the White House built? Do you reckon the Situation Room is the same in 2018 as it was in 1915?

The White House has very little to do with it.

I'd expect they'd use a variety of methods of communication, from & to a variety of places within & without the USA. They have bases & satellites & all sorts of cool stuff these days. Its called 'technology'. Its on the ground, in the air & in outer space.

It ain't 1950 you know.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Do you think they rely on bases built in that era?

Pine gap has constantly been updated, and Exmouth has just had a major rebuild

 

[madmug]

Pine gap has constantly been updated, and Exmouth has just had a major rebuild

No doubt. I guess all I'm saying is they wouldn't rely solely on one sort of technology or one place in which to base it off shore.

The US would want redundancy in such systems.

Yes Australia is useful. I doubt they'd go to war for us unless they had very good reasons for doing so.

Given the situation in the South China sea I think they'd want to keep in sweet with Indonesia etc. We are expendable in that regard. IMO.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Between the paranoid and trolling there ain't much about the cantonese.

Anyone wanna save his thread? I would like to read some real stuff.

 

[smokingjacket]

Well done Mofra this has been needed for a while. Interesting question of why China hasn't come up as a thread earlier. Have Australian's had a relatively benign/business-friendly view of China so far? Maybe even some solidarity or hope for a new Chinese power on the left? Has China successfully managed perceptions of their rise? Is Chief, he of unmatched wisdom an agent of Chinese foreign influence? Do Australians lack the language skills to engage with the Chines language media and social media to form their own opinions? Many questions.

 

[Mofra]

Well done Mofra this has been needed for a while. Interesting question of why China hasn't come up as a thread earlier. Have Australian's had a relatively benign/business-friendly view of China so far? Maybe even some solidarity or hope for a new Chinese power on the left? Has China successfully managed perceptions of their rise? Is Chief, he of unmatched wisdom an agent of Chinese foreign influence? Do Australians lack the language skills to engage with the Chines language media and social media to form their own opinions? Many questions.

There are probably a myriad of reasons that feed into China's ability to project influence without anywhere near the level of scrutiny other powers (or even sub-powers).

China haven't flexed their military muscle to annex territory since Tibet in 51 (59 depending on your view of history). The US by contrast have had 17 years of peace in it's entire existence. We seem to only care about the wizzbang of explosions so a soft take-over is less glamorous and less news-worthy. Did China's funding of infrastructure in Kenya even rate a mention in Australia? Their finance arrangements throughout the pacific basin?

Even their cessation of rare earth minerals to Japan a couple of years ago to force Japan's hand during a diplomatic dispute didn't raise much of a ripple here.

China's rise has also benefitted Australia economically as their appetite for Australian bulk goods (esp. coal and iron ore) has been enormous - economically they saved us from the ravages of the GFC and are still a very important trading partner (arguably more important than the US). In many ways they are seen as an important ally despite the uncomfortable nature of a lot of Australian-Sino diplomacy.

 

[QuietB]

No doubt. I guess all I'm saying is they wouldn't rely solely on one sort of technology or one place in which to base it off shore.

The US would want redundancy in such systems.

Yes Australia is useful. I doubt they'd go to war for us unless they had very good reasons for doing so.

Given the situation in the South China sea I think they'd want to keep in sweet with Indonesia etc. We are expendable in that regard. IMO.

US would not let Iraq have Kuwait. They sure as hell are not going to let China have Straya as their very own private mine and food bowl.

 

[smokingjacket]

We seem to only care about the wizzbang of explosions so a soft take-over is less glamorous and less news-worthy. Did China's funding of infrastructure in Kenya even rate a mention in Australia? Their finance arrangements throughout the pacific basin?

China's rise has also benefitted Australia economically as their appetite for Australian bulk goods (esp. coal and iron ore) has been enormous - economically they saved us from the ravages of the GFC and are still a very important trading partner (arguably more important than the US). In many ways they are seen as an important ally despite the uncomfortable nature of a lot of Australian-Sino diplomacy.

I suspect the stories about the most injurious development projects that China is pushing across Asia and Africa will start to get some klaxon treatment in the press. Foreign policy papers are running with it pretty hard and I imagine there will be a lot of drops to newspapers when one of these projects is on the ropes again. Interesting how the politics of OBOR, and corruption Chinese infrastructure projects in Malaysia are being thrashed out in public at the moment. China making some big bets on certain elites in countries but they still don't have the sophistication or subtlety of the Western powers influence operations. They've come out looking very crude and undignified for a great power.

Ally is a bit strong. Key partner maybe. There's very different opinions between business people and public servants. Just the other day, Duncan Lewis of ASIO basically admitted that Chinese espionage operations were at a scale unseen even in the Cold War. While it would be naive to assume our allies don't spy on us, steal technology, or attempt to influence our politics, the scale and scope of China's current espionage program in Australia would be hard to characterise as anything but hostile.

 

[HairyO]

I suspect the stories about the most injurious development projects that China is pushing across Asia and Africa will start to get some klaxon treatment in the press. Foreign policy papers are running with it pretty hard and I imagine there will be a lot of drops to newspapers when one of these projects is on the ropes again. Interesting how the politics of OBOR, and corruption Chinese infrastructure projects in Malaysia are being thrashed out in public at the moment. China making some big bets on certain elites in countries but they still don't have the sophistication or subtlety of the Western powers influence operations. They've come out looking very crude and undignified for a great power.

Ally is a bit strong. Key partner maybe. There's very different opinions between business people and public servants. Just the other day, Duncan Lewis of ASIO basically admitted that Chinese espionage operations were at a scale unseen even in the Cold War. While it would be naive to assume our allies don't spy on us, steal technology, or attempt to influence our politics, the scale and scope of China's current espionage program in Australia would be hard to characterise as anything but hostile.

Its not really espionage when they openly buy politicians. They are just doing exactly what Australian companies and rich people have been doing for decades.