Cloke vs T'hawk

[Somebody]

I know it's a futile and impossible thought, but it would be interesting to swap Cloke for THawk and see for example if cloke would have got 6 goals last night.
Could be that THawk has surpassed Travis in value, or maybe not... different sides, different gameplans.

 

[standingroomonly]

Hawkins went past Trav on grand final day and has never looked back.

The fact Trav still thinks he is worth $1m a year is amazing.

 

[Gambit78]

Hawkins went past Trav on grand final day and has never looked back.

The fact Trav still thinks he is worth $1m a year is amazing.

To be fair, I'm not certain Cloke claimed to be worth $1 million a year, it was more that teams like Freo and Melbourne tabled offers worth $1 million a year. If I read the situation correctly, Cloke would have been happy with $750,000 to $800,000 as long as he got a 5th year.

Anyway, I think Hawkins offers Cloke and us fans some hope in the sense that not so long ago, Hawkins could not hit the side of a barn with his kicks. Whatever Hawkins did to clear his head has done wonders for his form. The same would be true of Cloke, I think. Yep, this year has got to him, but if he finds a way to clear the demons, I see no reason why he can't be as good if not better. The game is such a mental battle.

 

[iGNITER]

Tommahawk is a star. Very strong and protects the ball well when marking.
6 straight last night.... When was the last time Cloke done that?

 

[SnakePlisskin]

Gameplan has a lot do with it , Geelong moves fast resulting in the tomahawk getting one out a lot , we're as slow as a wet week resulting in Cloke having two/three on him . Hawkins is ahead at this stage though (can kick).

 

[Optimax]

Strangely enough currently this year (Hawkins best and a poor one for cloke), cloke had only kicked 3 less goals coming into this round, with comparable stats otherwise

 

[DWil6]

71 marks inside 50 for Tomohawk is probably the big one. Gives him a reasonable goal scoring chance. Cloke has 52. Cloke is only 16 months older so there's not a vast gap in age either. Considering Cloke has played 71 more games.

 

[SwanBet]

Tommahawk is a star. Very strong and protects the ball well when marking.
6 straight last night.... When was the last time Cloke done that?

about 3 weeks ago.....

 

[Optimax]

71 marks inside 50 for Tomohawk is probably the big one. Gives him a reasonable goal scoring chance. Cloke has 52. Cloke is only 16 months older so there's not a vast gap in age either. Considering Cloke has played 71 more games.

Seeing that makes it even stranger that cloke only had three less goals coming into this week.

If it wasn't for the contract issues, cloke's form slump would be looked at differently

 

[daics_35]

Cloke. A good month of footy doesn't make Hawkins a star.

 

[DWil6]

Seeing that makes it even stranger that cloke only had three less goals coming into this week.

If it wasn't for the contract issues, cloke's form slump would be looked at differently

Yeah I think his inside 50 marks are probably higher because Geelong still moves the ball forward more efficiently than us too. Spotting him up on the lead. But if he keeps on improving like he has in the last 12 months he'll be a huge weapon for the cats.

 

[DWil6]

Cloke. A good month of footy doesn't make Hawkins a star.

What about of its in the finals and GF?

 

[gifted1]

both teams play contrasting styles so it is hard to compare the two.
Collingwood play a field position game, geelong are a more attack from defence type side, this is evidenced by our mids kicking a large amount of our goals.
cloke would kick more goals at geelong with their style (not saying it is better, although it is more attractive)
regardless of who is better, just be happy with what we've got.
hawkins would've been the no.1 draft choice, he was a massive free kick for geelong, cloke was a free kick for us, but not to the same extent (was rated a top 10 choice)
both are guns, wgaf who is better

 

[mattys123]

Strange how it changes though.

This time last year, no one would have argued that Cloke was the better play, even going into the Grand Final, even at quarter time of the Grand Final he was the better player.

But the last 5-6 weeks from Hawkins have been career best, no doubt, it's a question now of whether he can sustain it, because he has been inconsistent for his whole career really, and most of his recent performances have been against lesser sides (he didn't smash us both times we played them this year).

At the moment, Hawkins is just ahead of Cloke, just, but only one player will still be there on prelim weekend, and he won't be wearing blue and white this year.

 

[Premier Pies]

Yeah I think his inside 50 marks are probably higher because Geelong still moves the ball forward more efficiently than us too. Spotting him up on the lead. But if he keeps on improving like he has in the last 12 months he'll be a huge weapon for the cats.

It's safe to say that Hawkins is already well and truly a huge weapon for the Cats. Hawkins is well ahead as it stands today, his confidence is at an all time high.

Cloke's form is not from a lack of trying his arse off, it's a combination of many things. Game style, positioning, other forwards not clearing space for Cloke to lead and be one out, bombing the ball in on top of his head continuosly amongst other things. Cloke definitely has to take his fair share of the blame for poor form too.

That being said though, Cloke has massive scope for improvement which will in turn improve our side immeasureably. If Cloke does in fact improve out of sight for the remainder of the season and help deliver our 16th flag, we should re-visit this Cloke vs T'hawk question.

 

[Hva sher a]

Hawkins is a better pack mark but Cloke is better one out or on the lead.
Hawkins has a better kicking action while Cloke's looks horrible inside 30.
Hawkins does provide slightly more flexibility (he can pinchhit in the ruck)

As much as I love Cloke I'd probably take Hawkins because his old man doesn't try to hold the club to ransom!!

 

[HFF]

Hawkins went past Trav on grand final day and has never looked back.

The fact Trav still thinks he is worth $1m a year is amazing.

No he didn't.

Cloke was the dominant force in the first half. Marked everything and kicked impossible goals from everywhere. He was then outnumbered by a large Cats defence.

Hawkins got a hold of a Ben Reid who had no power in his legs. He also didn not relish the opportunity to stand up like Cloke did in that first half of the GF as he was still battling mental demons- hence dishing off his chances to Stevie J via handball.

Now, on form this season, Hawkins is the best power forward in the game. He has come of age.

However, do not be fooled into thinking he is better than Cloke. Cloke's best season of 2011 is still better than Hawkins' best of 2012.

Cloke still leads the competition in contested marks and has still amassed 45 goals with a game in hand compared to Hawkins' 54 at the moment. Not bad for a bloke having a "poor season".

Cloke is still the better player for mine, despite how good Hawkins has become. However, Hawkins is in incredible form at the moment.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I know it's a futile and impossible thought, but it would be interesting to swap Cloke for THawk and see for example if cloke would have got 6 goals last night.
Could be that THawk has surpassed Travis in value, or maybe not... different sides, different gameplans.

Different sides, different gameplans, different skillsets, different parents.

Even at his best Cloke is not a regular big goalkicker.

 

[Captivating]

Hawkins is better than Cloke this year. Easily. It's no contest.

Cloke has had an ordinary season.

At their best, Cloke is better, but he needs to extract a digit and prove it.

 

[Number 10]

Can the word tomahawk be abolished on the collingwood forum... ****ing hell!

 

[RuFiO]

Hawkins is better than Cloke this year. Easily. It's no contest.

Cloke has had an ordinary season.

At their best, Cloke is better, but he needs to extract a digit and prove it.

But Cloke plays for Collingwood!
It's not possible that a player from another club is better than ours!

 

[Soul_Pie]

Hawkins has had the better season but we have to remember that Cloke was awesome last year and was great in the Grand Final until the ball stopped going near him, he was also part of the reason why we got into the grand final in the first place with a great game against Hawthorn.

Hawkins is becoming a genuine star of the comp this year, though, he's finally realised he's the size of a truck and can bully and out-jump anyone in the comp. Confidence and self belief is a strange thing, I think it can often be the difference between a star and an average trier especially when it comes to forwards.

I do agree however that Cloke is let down by the way we play footy at times, look at all the marks Hawkins takes leading up the guts into space while Geelong move it on quickly to him, meanwhile Cloke has to run down the wings and take contested marks against 3 opposition players. We give Cloke a rough time of things in part because of our gameplan which I'm hoping will become a bit more dynamic and give Cloke a chance to become a force of power.

I still hope Cloke will sign on, that kind of marking prowess is rare in footy these days, we've done all we can to convince him, it's up to him now. If he loves the club he will stay, if he doesn't he'll go, we don't anything else to bargain with.

 

[Mobbsy]

Hawkins looks happy
Cloke looks grumpy, has for awhile

 

[ToroHombre]

Cloke and Hawkins are both spuds anyway. Jack Anthony, over his career, has a higher average goals per game than both. That says it all

 

[Temploar]

Tomahawk on 2012 form.
Cloke on 2011 form.