List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Mollythedolly]

This will sound controversial on this board and I’m aware it won’t happen this way, but for me, Mitchell makes Adams depth

Wow. Adams is a starting mid (when fit) in a team heading to a prelim, Mitchell can’t get a gig in the midfield of the team that finished 13th. Controversial doesn’t even scratch the surface

 

[Hardas]

We’ll see. According to Caro last night Grundy is staying and taking a cut.

That was simply her opinion.
Nothing more.

 

[sr36]

That would surprise me. You start heading north of that valuation and any savings start looking pretty skint.

Nothing would surprise me in terms of valuations of Grundy, firstly because ruck work is rated very differently and secondly because his around the ground work is much more suited to some game plans than others.

 

[Mollythedolly]

You can't compare Mitchell to the Pies players as it is like comparing apples and oranges. For example, this year 61% of all Mitchell's disposals are HB's. Whereas only 42% of De Goey's possessions are HB's; 51% of Adam's are HB's; 47.7% of Crisp's are HB's and 50% of Lipinski's disposals are HB's. I would expect you would have a better disposal efficiency if every 6/10 possessions are HB's.

Yeah, and a lot of his disposal is the Ablett style give and get 2 for 1.

 

[ipswichpies]

Ginnivan is as untouchable as you can get outside of being a Daicos

A 19 yo who has kicked 40 in his 2nd season we definitely be keeping him, non negotiable I would have thought I could have understood players wanting to leave if we followed up last season with something similar this season but I think we have turned the corner under Fly.

We also have some quite good youngsters pushing on not such a bad position to be in if you asked me.

 

[legendstatus]

A 19 yo who has kicked 40 in his 2nd season we definitely be keeping him, non negotiable I would have thought I could have understood players wanting to leave if we followed up last season with something similar this season but I think we have turned the corner under Fly.

We also have some quite good youngsters pushing on not such a bad position to be in if you asked me.

Lol


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[ExcitementMachine]

I'd push Cameron out instead of Grundy, and push Grundy to take a hair cut, but that's just me.

 

[GOR PIE]

Will "Frampton Come Alive" at the Pies ?

 

[Mollythedolly]

It would have to be a $300k per season pay cut at least….
I doubt this very much that he’s gonna willingly take a pay cut

Why $300k? That’d put him in the $600-650k range based on what I think are the more reasonable contract estimates. He’s better than that.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Do you think we Are happy for him to take a $100k pay cut when we are prepared to pay him $300k to play elsewhere?

That $300k is just a random guess, first in size, and secondly that we’d entertain paying anything if we traded him.

 

[soreplums]

Something doesn’t make sense. We ask Grundy to take 200k off per year and we still target Hill, McStay, Frampton and Mitchell And keep JDG.

We pay 200k to get rid of Grundy and we can’t get all of those players on our list even after we free up 700-900k + After delistings and retirements?

 

[Mollythedolly]

I'll give you Crisp and DeGoey.
Lipinski is as outside as they come.
Josh is a wingman
Elliott plays his best football forward.

Hmmm, you cited Sidey but Lipinski is too outside?

Josh has been getting more starting midfield rotations this year and acquitting himself very well so not really sure how you get that he’s a wingman as if other roles are beyond him.

If Elliott hadnt had his injury issues I think he’d have been a full time mid. He plays his best footy wherever he’s asked to play.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Are regular VFL watchers confident that Macrae and McInnes will become strong players for us?

I am.

 

[satanshoof101]

I am.

Agreed and now that we have AJ come alive, McInnes will hopefully play on ball instead of a forward

 

[Bianconeri]

Are regular VFL watchers confident that Macrae and McInnes will become strong players for us?

I’m confident Macrae will be good enough for AFL level I think it will be hard to for to get a spot with Lipinski in the side and Nick Daicos potentially moving to the middle.

Think McInnes will be a dangerous mid/fwd.

 

[Hugg]

Henry is worth more then a 2nd rounder try again

Henry is class
Keep him

I'd push Cameron out instead of Grundy, and push Grundy to take a hair cut, but that's just me.

Great idea
Cameron is not that good.
Would not be in the best 14 rucks in the league

 

[Hugg]

Agreed and now that we have AJ come alive, McInnes will hopefully play on ball instead of a forward

AJ alive...last week....????

 

[3rdMan]

If you didn’t notice, we’re in a prelim. Unlike the Hawks, we’re in “win now” mode. You can’t just concentrate on youth when you’re in the window, you find senior players that can step in immediately and contribute.

I did, and that's the concern. Many a team build has gone off the rails because a club over reaches due to a season of success. Especially with a new regime looking to impact, it's a real danger.

This season can be seen as a dead cat bounce from our previous build. We've already been through the top up phase and had come out the other side. Going back to it before we've built the new core is, at best, going to delay our new build, at worst it can condemn it to failure. We'd be grabbing for an unlikely 1-2 year window, then we need to further top up or go back to youth. Bad time to be compromising in my view.

However well we finish this year, we have to be much better next season to truly compete. We can't expect to be there and about again and top ups pushing us over the edge. Our regular season was good, but with zero margin for error and a number of our top end players ageing.

Think about this scenario: sign Mitchell for $700k over 3 years. Lose our first 5 games next year and he's back in the VFL and we're looking to move him out, probably having to salary dump and continue paying him. If immediate success isn't coming, we quickly need to look to our youth because too much of our top end is old.

Right now all we're doing is speculating, despite having heard nothing even semi solid about our interest in Mitchell - I'd strongly doubt we're seriously considering it. If it happens, maybe I could get on board depending on what we do with other moves, but can't see any way it happens without significant risk.

 

[barrackers]

Agreed and now that we have AJ come alive, McInnes will hopefully play on ball instead of a forward

I sense McInnes will continue to play forward as a way to get senior game time until he builds a tank. Similar to DeGoey previously.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Grundy’s days in black and white are now officially numbered with this news

Why? Because Melbourne need a replacement ruck?

 

[Apex36]

I did, and that's the concern. Many a team build has gone off the rails because a club over reaches due to a season of success. Especially with a new regime looking to impact, it's a real danger.

This season can be seen as a dead cat bounce from our previous build. We've already been through the top up phase and had come out the other side. Going back to it before we've built the new core is, at best, going to delay our new build, at worst it can condemn it to failure. We'd be grabbing for an unlikely 1-2 year window, then we need to further top up or go back to youth. Bad time to be compromising in my view.

However well we finish this year, we have to be much better next season to truly compete. We can't expect to be there and about again and top ups pushing us over the edge. Our regular season was good, but with zero margin for error and a number of our top end players ageing.

Think about this scenario: sign Mitchell for $700k over 3 years. Lose our first 5 games next year and he's back in the VFL and we're looking to move him out, probably having to salary dump and continue paying him. If immediate success isn't coming, we quickly need to look to our youth because too much of our top end is old.

Right now all we're doing is speculating, despite having heard nothing even semi solid about our interest in Mitchell - I'd strongly doubt we're seriously considering it. If it happens, maybe I could get on board depending on what we do with other moves, but can't see any way it happens without significant risk.

Mate… going from 17th to a prelim isn’t a dead cat bounce. And what makes you think we’d be paying Mitchell anything close to $700k for 3 years? It feels like you’ve concocted a doomsday scenario in your head here to justify your opinion. Fact is that we can bring in established talent right now to fill areas we’ve been weak in this year, while we’re in a window, without compromising our early draft pick/s, which in turn will help us protect the kids that aren’t quite ready yet.

 

[Ugene41]

Doesn't sound so bad to me given this enables us to keep Jordy and also get Hill.

And Henry wants about half of that made up 600K figure from what I've been told but right now we're struggling to find it.

I don't understand how swapping $900k Grundy for $600k + $200k McStay (and paying Grundy elsewhere) helps us keep Jordy and also get Hill. The saving is $100k.

If we are struggling to find $300k, that makes offering $600k for McStay for 5 years even more ridiculous. Effectively McStay will push out Grundy and Henry. Either there's something big missing in your intel or GW is worse than Ned Guy.

 

[unplugged]

So Grundy on say 900k. 700k gone.

Bring in McStay on 550-600k.

I won't mention Hill because he probably just takes Roughead's wage.

And I won't mention Frampton because his wage would probably only be as much as a Brown brother or whatever.

So many unknowns. Like, are we only just finishing paying Beams this year? How much more have we got left to pay Treloar?

Without knowing anything we really don't know what to expect... I'm really just hoping we'll flip a trade of Grundy for May but suspect we already know our trades for the short term.

We need more cheap mid depth like Lipinski. Fiorini seems very logical.

 

[Jen2310]

Doesn't sound so bad to me given this enables us to keep Jordy and also get Hill.

And Henry wants about half of that made up 600K figure from what I've been told but right now we're struggling to find it.

We are struggling to find 300k? Thats concerning. Would offloading grundy help? Maybe thats why Ollie is waiting til the grundy situation is resolved.

 

[unplugged]

Also when are we getting a new thread? This one started just before last year's trade period. 1000+ pages