List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[well left]

FMD get over it and give it a rest.

It's past.

Yep. I’m hoping once we get past this draft it’s completely forgotten like it should be.

It’s not the worst decision we’ve made with first rounders in the last couple of years and wasn’t the worst decision we made last year.



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[Pragmatic Shill]

FMD get over it and give it a rest.

It's past.

Not generally a fan of a lot of your comments but I'm right behind this.

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[Everybody Panic]

The simple fact of the matter is if JHF was our father son pick, you wouldn't have such a hard on finding every which way to spin JHF as so inferior to Daicos. Also people that think the most consistent and dominant ball winner at youth level equates to what scouts consider the best prospect in a draft don't really understand how prospect projection works. None of that is to say JHF IS the better talent, but not one of the reasons given make Daicos the easily superior talent to JHF when looking at forward projection, which is what matters most when it comes to top of the pool draftees IMO. Most intelligent scouts working for AFL clubs would have them close with a slight preference for one or the other. Some may have Daicos well superior and others may have JHF well superior. If you are so blinded by bias that you can't see the traits that make JHF a talent people might consider superior to Daicos despite the less consistent performances, then I guess you are just gonna keep arguing about it for literally no reason. The whole put the other talent down to big up our own player circle jerk thing is just weird IMO. Just revel in the fact we have an elite talent coming to the club.

This is it 100%. If JHF was Collingwood bound people would be arguing he has recent form and exposed form.

How many times do we have to go through this - it's not the same situation at all.

The situation with pick 1 last year was as follows:

A) JUH was clearly the best prospect in the draft, with daylight second. Adelaide would have very happily taken him if the Bulldogs somehow didn't match the bid (of course we know they were always going to but that's neither here nor there).

B) The Crows had very specific reasons to force the Bulldogs out of the second round, namely their (the Bulldogs') identified interest in James Rowe, who the Crows wanted to pick up.

The current situation with pick 1 this year is as follows:

A) There is no consensus #1 pick this time, although JHF's exploits have many pundits and even recruiters / list managers tagging him as the #1 pick now, most likely due to Daicos' relative lack of competitive football over the past two years and JHF's strong performance in the SANFL seniors prelim.

B) JHF is on record in saying that his goal is to be the #1 pick, and North Melbourne have never had a #1 pick in the draft before this year, so there is motivation on both sides there to take JHF with pick 1.

C) There is no "real strategic reason for North to bid on Daicos first, as all of our picks before the third round picks they have will be gone anyway, regardless of whether the bid for Daicos comes in at pick 1, 2, 3 or even pick 4, so there is no net material gain to be had from North bidding on Daicos with pick 1.

D) North just knocked back a ridiculous offer of three first round picks (two of them Adelaide's) for pick 1 this year, which it would be reasonable to assume indicates that both teams are bullish on JHF at pick 1.

You literally couldn't have two more dissimilar situations with the two clubs having pick 1 last year and this year if you tried.

But what you're missing is the beef! See North Melbourne probably have some beef with us because we have better looking stripes so they will do it out of spite! Remember everyone hates us and all recruiters are moody teenagers looking for revenge!

(Great post btw!)

 

[magpies42]

Have to disagree. Daicos was great that day. Also, in a pre-season game against men, he was BOG.
JHF is very, very good, but Daicos is generational.

I hope that’s the case. The fact Adelaide offered three first round picks including this years pick 4 to get him suggests I am right though. Think about it which player ever cost 3 first round picks, let alone an untried 18 yo.

 

[Scodog10]

Pretty high I would think - a lot of smoke surrounding him coming back to play now.

He’d be a decent get too! Not because he comes back as 2017 Rance, but because their KPP roster is as poor as ours. They desperately need to pad out that area of the ground. Right now they look like us post 2016 where they just need a few things to click to be right up there, but with the potential to be badly exposed in the KP posts.

 

[PyrrhicVic]

This is it 100%. If JHF was Collingwood bound people would be arguing he has recent form and exposed form.

We don't have to hype him up at all, actual draft scouts like Twomey has him rated as #1. The fact that he may drop to the third pick is a blessing, let North have their golden boy.

 

[Laurie Holden]

It might be just me, but given North finished on bottom of the ladder, I don’t see why they wouldn’t bid on Daicos and Darcy before JHF. They can just tell JHF they rate him at number one, but want to weakened Dogs and Pies draft hand. There is no way Pies and dogs won’t match. Shit business to have the ability to make two of your competitors weaker and not use it. It’s a dog eat dog world!

 

[Harry O]

Surely we will pick up one of the Hawk players , perhaps Gunston

Hawks want more early picks. We don’t have the collateral to satisfy them

 

[MyManLynch]

It might be just me, but given North finished on bottom of the ladder, I don’t see why they wouldn’t bid on Daicos and Darcy before JHF. They can just tell JHF they rate him at number one, but want to weakened Dogs and Pies draft hand. There is no way Pies and dogs won’t match. sh*t business to have the ability to make two of your competitors weaker and not use it. It’s a dog eat dog world!

But both Dogs & Collingwood have cleared the decks of all early picks…holding a bunch of later picks to match a bid.
Therefore doesn’t hurt either club really (with early bid).
If Dogs or Collingwood still held a full suite of picks (round 1, 2 etc) then yes, a greater degree of hurt.
Besides, I don’t think professional recruiters think that way.
They choose the best fit for their club with every pick.

 

[Harry O]

All correct, but stuff giving them 2 picks. 58 OR 55, but not both.
Why should we miss out on a live pick?

55 becomes 45 after all the father son matches, which seems fair to me

 

[Laurie Holden]

But both Dogs & Collingwood have cleared the decks of all early picks…holding a bunch of later picks to match a bid.
Therefore doesn’t hurt either club really (with early bid).
If Dogs or Collingwood still held a full suite of picks (round 1, 2 etc) then yes, a greater degree of hurt.
Besides, I don’t think professional recruiters think that way.
They choose the best fit for their club with every pick.

Makes sense, but would it not also mean that someone we rate later in the draft could be gone as our next pick would be later in the draft? Clubs need to weaken their opposition, and whilst it might only be minor, or may not impact who we draft late,I feel they’d be silly to not do it.

 

[JuniorB]

But both Dogs & Collingwood have cleared the decks of all early picks…holding a bunch of later picks to match a bid.
Therefore doesn’t hurt either club really (with early bid).
If Dogs or Collingwood still held a full suite of picks (round 1, 2 etc) then yes, a greater degree of hurt.
Besides, I don’t think professional recruiters think that way.
They choose the best fit for their club with every pick.

Someone posted here that GWS are after talls, so they will probably bid on Darcy. So if North pick JHF at 1, Daicos could slip to 3.

 

[manicpie]

How many times do we have to go through this - it's not the same situation at all.

The situation with pick 1 last year was as follows:

A) JUH was clearly the best prospect in the draft, with daylight second. Adelaide would have very happily taken him if the Bulldogs somehow didn't match the bid (of course we know they were always going to but that's neither here nor there).

B) The Crows had very specific reasons to force the Bulldogs out of the second round, namely their (the Bulldogs') identified interest in James Rowe, who the Crows wanted to pick up.

The current situation with pick 1 this year is as follows:

A) There is no consensus #1 pick this time, although JHF's exploits have many pundits and even recruiters / list managers tagging him as the #1 pick now, most likely due to Daicos' relative lack of competitive football over the past two years and JHF's strong performance in the SANFL seniors prelim.

B) JHF is on record in saying that his goal is to be the #1 pick, and North Melbourne have never had a #1 pick in the draft before this year, so there is motivation on both sides there to take JHF with pick 1.

C) There is no "real strategic reason for North to bid on Daicos first, as all of our picks before the third round picks they have will be gone anyway, regardless of whether the bid for Daicos comes in at pick 1, 2, 3 or even pick 4, so there is no net material gain to be had from North bidding on Daicos with pick 1.

D) North just knocked back a ridiculous offer of three first round picks (two of them Adelaide's) for pick 1 this year, which it would be reasonable to assume indicates that both teams are bullish on JHF at pick 1.

You literally couldn't have two more dissimilar situations with the two clubs having pick 1 last year and this year if you tried.

You'll see

 

[manicpie]

They did that so the bullies would lose picks and wouldn't grab Rowe, who the Crows wanted.
Had nothing to do with the fact they wanted to screw the bullies.

You'll see

 

[Everybody Panic]

It might be just me, but given North finished on bottom of the ladder, I don’t see why they wouldn’t bid on Daicos and Darcy before JHF. They can just tell JHF they rate him at number one, but want to weakened Dogs and Pies draft hand. There is no way Pies and dogs won’t match. sh*t business to have the ability to make two of your competitors weaker and not use it. It’s a dog eat dog world!

You cost your player a $10k bonus to make the pies and dogs lose some 3 and 4th round picks. It would also be good marketing for them to get a number 1 pick.

 

[Countrypie]

I really don’t think Norf will bid on either Daics or Darcy at pick 1. They are a struggler club and this is their first EVER pick 1. They’ll want to pick their shiny new toy in Horne as the legit 1 pick to show him off. Knocking back 3 firsts just confirms this.

Giants, on the other hand, will cornhole us with our own pick (2) and nom Daics. Take it to the bank.

Gants have publicly stated that they would prefer Darcy

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You cost your player a $10k bonus to make the pies and dogs lose some 3 and 4th round picks. It would also be good marketing for them to get a number 1 pick.

Alternatively pick 1 is historically a poisoned chalice and from a player management perspective letting them slip to two allows them to develop whilst avoiding a lot of media and social media glare

 

[manicpie]

Alternatively pick 1 is historically a poisoned chalice and from a player management perspective letting them slip to two allows them to develop whilst avoiding a lot of media and social media glare

It's as simple as this, daicos is a once in a lifetime talent, you don't let your opposition have a free hit at such talent

 

[jatsad]

I hope that’s the case. The fact Adelaide offered three first round picks including this years pick 4 to get him suggests I am right though. Think about it which player ever cost 3 first round picks, let alone an untried 18 yo.

No doubt he is great, but I had a look at this years stats, which I know don't mean everything, but he averaged 16 disposals at 67% efficiency.
Don't seem outstanding, more solid. Had a great prelim which sent the hype through the roof.
I'm sticking with Daics though, not because of his name, because he was averaging over 30 and above 80% efficiency.

Yes stats can lie, but not seeing him play much in the past year, all I can go on.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It's as simple as this, daicos is a once in a lifetime talent, you don't let your opposition have a free hit at such talent

I wasn’t saying that because I’m not predicting who the better player is or will be. That’s your opinion…. Others have different opinions….I will abstain because I’d be guessing.

But yep they aren’t going to automatically pick Horne because he’d like to be pick one or because he’d like the $10k.

 

[neilk]

Alternatively pick 1 is historically a poisoned chalice and from a player management perspective letting them slip to two allows them to develop whilst avoiding a lot of media and social media glare

I think the young man has stated he wants to be #1 pick.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think the young man has stated he wants to be #1 pick.

Doesn’t really matter what he says he wants although without the actual quote I don’t have the context.

Realistically though he should be saying he wants to play for North Melbourne and doesn’t care how he gets there.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Giants young gun Bobby Hill wants to be traded to Victorian-based AFL club

Giant wants out: Star requests move to Victorian club - and two are open to a trade

www.foxsports.com.au

Bobby Hill wanting to get to a Vic club. We should absolutely ask the question.

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[Timmy from Thomastown]

Giants young gun Bobby Hill wants to be traded to Victorian-based AFL club

Giant wants out: Star requests move to Victorian club - and two are open to a trade

www.foxsports.com.au

Bobby Hill wanting to get to a Vic club. We should absolutely ask the question.

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He’d be good but how do we get it done? And why do players drop these bombshells half way through the trade period?

Straight swap for Lynch!

 

[snagbreac]

He’d be good but how do we get it done? And why do players drop these bombshells half way through the trade period?

Straight swap for Lynch!

That's probably one of the better ideas I've heard all trade period. Not unrealistic. The only problem is it's yet ANOTHER forward. However, if we lose JT, it's like for like.