Madgen is, it’s one step forward two steps back if we persist with him
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List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion
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Injuries are part of the fabric of the current general AFL playstyle so depth - especially with the currently reduced list sizes - should play a crucial part in managing the playing list.
We are at present just about at stage 2 of a near total rebuild of the club. Early indicators being positive we must keep focus on player turnover - the timing of which will be crucial to list development.
That list development component will determine the pace at which 'soldiers' will be moved on. As last years recruits mature and develop they should start pushing the older and plainer soldiers into the magoos.
Very interesting times ahead.
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We can do both still. We are taking 3 or 4 selections in the National draft according to GW and I would think an older key defender like Dean would be high on the priorities. We may also need to rookie a ruckman if Cox refuses our base level offer.
barrackers
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I like that our VFL team won most close matches in ‘21 especially since the seniors done the opposite. As you say winning culture.
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Media reports vary from a $900 to $1 M. Not a single journo has claimed to definitively know the figure.
It's a lot Sexier to say he's making a million
At the time, reports were he was offered 4 years at around a million a year, he responded he wanted a longer term deal.
$6.45 M for 7 years about $925 a season middle ground
snagbreac
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We don't rate Madgen because he hasn't found his position. He is NOT a defender. But Grundy would suck if we played him as a SF and we're hardly going to be using McCreery as a ruck. So it's about experimentation.
John Noble is a good wingman, maybe HB played. I want to explore his possibilities more.
Tom Wilson was a top prospect in 2013 so I believe if we can train him, then he'll be a good player. Certainly up there in the VFL.
John Noble is a good wingman, maybe HB played. I want to explore his possibilities more.
Tom Wilson was a top prospect in 2013 so I believe if we can train him, then he'll be a good player. Certainly up there in the VFL.
snagbreac
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If we recruited those players, everyone would claim they were amazing. Because they are delisted, people don't rate them. Constable would have stayed at a younger club and played AFL. Every WCE fan is saying how good Brander is. We need those sorts of players because from 2013-2019 we did not have many good drafts. Of course, 2014 was an anomaly. But '13, '15, '16, '17 were busts and '19 has only two players left. In comparison, 2020 has a whopping 11 players. That's too many. You can't keep 11. You're going to have to sell them off at some point. Which is why I want us to diversify and get Brander to compensate '17 and find other cheap selections to give us a boost. Our draft hand this year is nothing to boast about, either. Daicos, Dib AND X isn't that great.
snagbreac
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If Grundy was played more as a forward, then we'd like him more. He just hasn't had opportunity to kick goals. The Richmond game was an example of what could happen.
I agree that players are usually delisted for a reason; typically either not good enough or other issues like attitude.
That said I wouldn't be surprised if we actually did pick up Lonie as depth to Ginnivan and co. now that Thomas has retired.
I originally wanted Stengle because it was going to mean we could de-list/trade Thomas, before Thomas seemingly took matters into his own hands.
People froth over Ginnivan but the sample size is still too small for me. I'll be interested to see how he goes once he plays more games and teams start to work out his tricks.
Lonie isn't a world beater but we went after him and then he started that next season with some decent form. And let's not forget he has been a forward in a team with a terrible midfield.
That said I wouldn't be surprised if we actually did pick up Lonie as depth to Ginnivan and co. now that Thomas has retired.
I originally wanted Stengle because it was going to mean we could de-list/trade Thomas, before Thomas seemingly took matters into his own hands.
People froth over Ginnivan but the sample size is still too small for me. I'll be interested to see how he goes once he plays more games and teams start to work out his tricks.
Lonie isn't a world beater but we went after him and then he started that next season with some decent form. And let's not forget he has been a forward in a team with a terrible midfield.
Scodog10
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Definitely, but I think it’s unlikely that we do with all 4 of Howe, Wilson, Madgen and Murphy on the list plus Keane and Kelly (assuming we swing him back with greater depth now) jostling for that next up KPD spot.
The Royal Sampler
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We’re probably at a significant disadvantage there if we can’t offer them a spot until after the draft. DFAs will want security first and foremost. Opportunity second.
- Jul 19, 2019
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Ok, what is it with you and st.kilda players. Lonie is just a very average footballer, won't be picked up by anyone
I agree re Ginnivan. He's showing some promise but he is the exact sort of player you would hate if he was playing for another team. His best trick so far has been to drop his knees, throw his head back and draw high contact. I really, really hope he's not going to rely on that for long. Hopefully he shows some super -sticky hands. He looks to have some good agility and game sense but not sure on outright speed. A great kick at goal too. A bit to work with, all in all.
as to Lonie, i would pass. rather have some raw gem with serious toe. that's something i feel we need up front. outright speed for chase downs etc
Lets get Dean. Exactly what we need. Key Defender. Also need a Key forward but we have more potential there. Krueger, Johnson, McMahon.
Jen2310
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COLLINGWOOD
Arrivals: Nathan Kreuger (traded – Geelong), Patrick Lipinski (traded – Western Bulldogs)
Departures: Isaac Chugg (delisted)*, Levi Greenwood (retired), Max Lynch (traded – Hawthorn), Chris Mayne (retired), Jay Rantall (delisted), Brayden Sier (delisted), Josh Thomas (retired), Anton Tohill (retired)
Uncontracted: Mason Cox
Contracted: 38 (including two category B rookies)
Draft picks: 36, 38, 40, 46, 48, 55, 58, 78, 79
The Magpies announced John Noble’s new two-year deal on Tuesday but still have six list openings. They also want Cox to stay after fellow big man Lynch’s defection to Hawthorn. Collingwood cut Chugg but will redraft him as a rookie. The club has also committed to Senegalese ruck prospect Bassirou Faye as an International Rookie Scholarship player, but he sits outside the list of 44. Faye isn’t eligible to play AFL games until he is promoted.
Arrivals: Nathan Kreuger (traded – Geelong), Patrick Lipinski (traded – Western Bulldogs)
Departures: Isaac Chugg (delisted)*, Levi Greenwood (retired), Max Lynch (traded – Hawthorn), Chris Mayne (retired), Jay Rantall (delisted), Brayden Sier (delisted), Josh Thomas (retired), Anton Tohill (retired)
Uncontracted: Mason Cox
Contracted: 38 (including two category B rookies)
Draft picks: 36, 38, 40, 46, 48, 55, 58, 78, 79
The Magpies announced John Noble’s new two-year deal on Tuesday but still have six list openings. They also want Cox to stay after fellow big man Lynch’s defection to Hawthorn. Collingwood cut Chugg but will redraft him as a rookie. The club has also committed to Senegalese ruck prospect Bassirou Faye as an International Rookie Scholarship player, but he sits outside the list of 44. Faye isn’t eligible to play AFL games until he is promoted.
JuniorB
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The 4 1st round picks we traded out for 2 players no longer at the club really hurt us. Picking up DFAs is really a short term fix for list deficiencies while young players are developing, so if Brander fits a need, he won't cost much.
JuniorB
Norm Smith Medallist
Is it possible to give a player an undertaking to pick him in the rookie or pre-season draft?
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
You can tell them you’ll take them if available at your pick, sure.
- Nov 26, 2013
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Checking the Geelong board the bloke only has the one gear and no endurance so he doesn't cover the ground at all.
Checking the West Coast board the general consensus is that it's too soft for KPD and not really much good on the wing.
We do need to fill that 21-25 age bracket a little more, but not necessarily with the sort of spuds you've been putting forward.
You don't get to pick and choose what's an anomaly and what isn't. More luck with the 2013 crop and they would potentially have been just as good as well.
Let's look at the actual drafts:
2013 - bust / unlucky (mostly due to recurring / chronic injuries to Shaz, Freeman and Langdon but they all looked good coming in)
2014 - an excellent draft (De Goey, Moore, Maynard + Cox)
2015 - ok but not great (Phillips and Wills were serviceable for a period of time, Sier unfortunately a bust apart from a strong 10-game stretch)
2016 - ok but not great (McLarty bust, C. Brown ok, Daicos obviously good, Lynch turned into something as a late rookie pick)
2017 - ok but not great (Stevo bright start but off-field issues, too soon to call on T. Brown but he needs to have a big one next year, Murphy shaky, Mihocek a great pick)
2018 - too early to call (Quaynor good, Kelly still developing)
2019 - too early to call (Bianco and Ruscoe showed promising signs this year, Rantall a bit unlucky to miss out on a bunch of development he really needed)
That's seven best-22 players (De Goey, Moore, Maynard, Daicos, Stevo, Mihocek, Quaynor) plus a bloke who very nearly took us to a flag (Cox), with the jury still out on C. Brown, T. Brown, Murphy, and Kelly.
Not too bad at all when you view it that way, is it?
Time for a musical interlude...
It was actually 10, not 11. Six in the ND, two in the RD, two MSD selections.
It's too many only in your own head. No reason why we can't keep the majority of them if they're good enough, but it's inevitable that some wont make it in the long run.
Brander might be ok, but we don't need to go dumpster diving for most of the names you're bringing up. This "rebuild" is going to continue for another 2-3 years before we're in shape to really start making a bit of noise in September, so we have the time to be a bit more selective about the players we bring in.
What an absolute crock. Best midfielder in the draft, versatile tough pressure small forward, plus one or two other picks (perhaps even a KPP in the second round if we get lucky). That's something to boast about and, as you mentioned above, we had a big draft last year so we don't need to go deep into the draft this year anyway.
You might think you're being a bit "edgy" suggesting "alternatives" nobody else is keen on, but really you're just getting a bit hysterical and overly enthusiastic to bring in list cloggers just because.
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I may be in the minority but I'm hoping that we don't sign any DFAs pre draft. List spots are too tight and none of the ones left on offer (Brander, Constable etc) excite me too much for our list. With list spots so tight and the need to have at least 5 open selections to activate our required Daicos points I just can't see it happening. I would only be keen to add a player like a Naish/Woodcock via the PSD once we know what the list is looking like post National draft. I'd even be happy to turn our backs on a previously listed player come the PSD (if we have spare spots) and take the best undrafted young player there if there is one there we really like.
The only way I could see it happening pre draft is if Cox decides not to sign back on with us on whatever offer we've put to him and we are forced to delist him.
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Not needed at this stage? If anything we probably need to condense two of our picks down into an earlier one, not split an earlier one up into two picks.
That is, unless you want to run the risk of North bidding at pick 1 because we only have 2000-ish points worth of eligible draft picks we can actually use to match a bid on draft day.
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